What now?

[Mr. Tines]

You really need to listen to Yui!

It comes down to the difference between show and tell. Yui tells us all will be well (or, at least, to make the best of a bad job). We are shown an outcome that is enough to make the living envy the dead.

And show trumps tell every time.

[MaggotMaster]

Mr. Tines is WAY too negative on his views of Evangelion.

I quote myself.

[BobBQ]

I'm with Tines on this one.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You really need to listen to Yui!

It comes down to the difference between show and tell. Yui tells us all will be well (or, at least, to make the best of a bad job). We are shown an outcome that is enough to make the living envy the dead.

And show trumps tell every time.

This coming from the guy who wont acknowledge the blue in the sky at the end of the movie. What are we really shown anyways? You're basing this opinion on 3 minutes of a movie. There isn't enough evidence to support your assertions. If the damage is as severe as you say it should be there shouldn't be any blue in the sky at the end. Anyways the "Red Earth" is where the Lilim are from.

Rei:
Man made from red soil.

[MaggotMaster]

not to mention it's likely only tokyo 3 was completely obliterated, we don't know what happens to the rest of the cities worldwide besides their citizens going sploosh.

[jakewashere]

You really need to listen to Yui!

It comes down to the difference between show and tell. Yui tells us all will be well (or, at least, to make the best of a bad job). We are shown an outcome that is enough to make the living envy the dead.

And show trumps tell every time.

Precisely. All the yammering about being able to make any place a heaven is only so much bullshit on Yui's part. Look at the last shot of EoE and tell me: What are the f__king chances of ever being happy in a place like that?

You don't even need to look at EoE itself to realize what a gargantuan lie Yui is telling. I look around at the real world, and I see a lot of places that aren't even remotely like heaven. You'd have to be f__king delusional to think that such places could ever be heaven on earth for ANYONE.

Plus this fact: "anywhere can be heaven?" Sounds kind of like SEELE's plans to make this earth a heaven, what with the whole immanentizing-the-Eschaton, One Big Happy Hive Mind thing. Anyone - ANYONE - who talks about setting the world right or making it a heaven on earth is a deluded, untrustworthy utopianist; the greatest atrocities of human history were committed by such people...

"The world would be a better place if we killed all the kings."
"The world would be a better place if the capitalists were all dead."
"The world would be a better place if white Germans ran everything and we killed all the Jews."
"The world would be a better place if there were no communists."
"The world would be a better place if the Americans were all dead."
And SEELE: "The world would be a better place if we were all dead."

[Anonymous_Evafan]

A place like what? They're at the edge of the crater where the Black Moon was blasted free. We get a quick shot of a small town and see that the plant life has returned. Beyond that we get nothing. Again I say the "Red Earth" isn't the oblivion it's made out to be since it is what the Lilim were spawned from.

Rei:
Man made from red soil.
Man made from man and woman.
City... A human creation.
Eva... A human creation.
What is a human? A creation of God?
Is man a human creation?

It's clear she is referring to us.

[jakewashere]

A place like what? They're at the edge of the crater where the Black Moon was blasted free. We get a quick shot of a small town and see that the plant life has returned. Beyond that we get nothing. Again I say the "Red Earth" isn't the oblivion it's made out to be since it is what the Lilim were spawned from.

And how long would you find yourself willing to continue floating on the edge of a sea of LCL? We came from that stuff, but it's not natural that we should go back to it - or shall I say, coexist with it. Homo sapiens would not be compatible with an environment made enitrely out of primordial ooze - a muck that ceased to exist two billion years ago, long before we evolved out of the stuff that evolved out of the muck.

[MaggotMaster]

Because the status of Tokyo-3 = The entire world's status, am i rite?

Why do you think Anno put Yui's line in there? I for one highly doubt he put it there to say "yeah pretty much the only remotely heoric character in the series is actually an evil liar, she also eats babies and supports the republican party", nevermind the fact that it goes completely against the positive portrayal of Yui in the entire series :roll:

Please do not turn Evangelion into a vessel for your own misanthropy.

[AuthenticM]

You don't even need to look at EoE itself to realize what a gargantuan lie Yui is telling. I look around at the real world, and I see a lot of places that aren't even remotely like heaven. You'd have to be f__king delusional to think that such places could ever be heaven on earth for ANYONE.

That was kind of the message of the show, you know. Would you rather have her say: "No place on earth can be heaven. It's pointless to think otherwise. Just jump off a bridge and die." ? Even though it's untrue that every place in the world can be heaven if one wishes so, we still have the job of promoting this idea (to some degree, of course). Telling other people to just abandon hope is even more pointless (and cruel) than telling them to keep on going.

But I agree that a world post-3I could not be heaven. Face it people. This is litteraly Hell on Earth. That's why I hope Anno will give us a brand new ending with Rebuild. He gave us a fucked up (as in weird) ending with EoTV, a fucked up (as in totally fucked up) ending with EoE, so the only thing left is to give us a happy/non-delusional ending with Rebuild. I was thinking something along the line of RahXephon (if you've seen the show, you know what I'm talking about). And if some people don't like this new ending, well, they can just go watch EoE again; it'll still be there.

[jakewashere]

I feel it undermines the purpose of the show if the theme - the message Anno Hideaki wanted to deliver - is completely belied by the situation the characters find themselves in at the conclusion. Why bother telling us not to give up hope if you leave your characters with no possible reason to hope? The only messages I can reasonably extract from that juxtaposition are that all hope is mere delusion, and that Ikari Yui is a God-damned liar.

[MaggotMaster]

Ikari Yui is a God-damned liar.

YEAH AND GENDO IS A GOOD PERSON AND NOT SELFISH AT ALL, JUST LIKE Asuka IS A CALM CHARACTER AND Rei IS ALWAYS YELLING AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS.

You're basically going completely against how Evangelion portrays its characters.

By the way, don't you understand that Tokyo 3 =! World? what tells you that the entire world was left in the same shitty status as Tokyo-3, a city that got blown into pieces in EP23? for all I know people only went sploosh, you don't ever see, say, New York blow into pieces. OH NO, THE WORLD IS COLORED DIFFERENTLY, EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE! HUMANITY CANNOT LIVE WITH LCL ALL OVER THE PLANET, NEVERMIND THAT LCL SHOULD DISSAPEAR GRADUALLY AS HUMANS RETURN :roll:

[directedition]

You're basically going completely against how Evangelion portrays its characters.

It is the duty of fandom to explore every possible and impossible possibility. Or.... impossibility.....

[Sailor Star Dust]

Bumped because it's a good topic, like the Kimochi Warui theard.

@ topic: Some of you people have no optimism. If Yui-sama has hope, why can't you? ;)

Why do you think Anno put Yui's line in there? I for one highly doubt he put it there to say "yeah pretty much the only remotely heoric character in the series is actually an evil liar, she also eats babies and supports the republican party", nevermind the fact that it goes completely against the positive portrayal of Yui in the entire series :roll:

Please do not turn Evangelion into a vessel for your own misanthropy.

You really need to listen to Yui! She is absolutely right about the chance for happiness. As someone who has been sucked into the depths of destrudo and found my way to libido I know this for a fact. I don't expect the perfect life, in fact I don't really expect much from life. I'm here and I'm me and I'm happy about that. Cynicism completely misses the point Anno is trying to convey!

And to add my two cents: ending of the movie=symbolism of defeating Depression. No matter how bad things can get, there is ALWAYS hope!

Enough said.

[MaggotMaster]

why must you insist on raising the dead

[Sailor Star Dust]

"Raising the dead"? Anyway, why not?

[MaggotMaster]

Anyway, why not?

Because debates regarding the final scene and/or what might happen after EoE invoke my rage

[Reichu]

"Raising the dead"?

Bumping old thread = Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman! = raising the dead.

[InvaderRen]

um i think that theres a big point that you people are missing

What says that they have to had materialized in Tokyo-3? from what ive seen, there is no indication that they are anywhere near that city

if im wrong, go ahead

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You're right Tokyo 3 is gone. The Harpies obliterated what was left of it when they freed the Black Moon.

Remember it was sitting right on top of the Geofront AKA Black Moon. They're near some other town or city.