What would you change about Evangelion?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:24 am

View Original PostSimplyMason0 wrote:-The masturbation scene. I understand the point, but it just makes people hate Shinji and see him as an awful person.
Thanks to Manga's gamma levels and Vaseline-o-Vision video quality, I just saw "Goddamn it, stop staring at your hand, lad!"; the rest of EoE more than sufficed to show Shinji as an awful person.
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Postby amitakartok » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:56 am

The only problem I have with Eva is the same as with many, many, many other anime: the lack of non-implied romantic resolution. I mean come on, they've been dangling the shipping in front of our noses during the entire series but the final verdict is pretty much "maybe yes, maybe no". Gaaah, I could rip my hair out from that.

I know, I know, they didn't want to piss off the fans of the unlucky ships - but don't like something in the story and want to see a different approach? That's what doujins are for.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:40 am

View Original PostDream wrote:The majority of the posts in here are rather... Dissapointing, to be honest. And to tell you the truth, they make me more glad NGE is the way it is, in a way.


Agreed. Most of the changes proposed change the show in big ways and would have ramifications people don't seem to be considering. With that in mind, my list:

-- Rei's arc is too uneven; I'd like to see it smoothed out so that we see some of the ambiguity Shinji speaks of during the helltrain sequence in EoE. The big reveal in 23 covers enough of that to make the story work as is, but it could use some polish.

-- Explain Kaworu's purpose and goals more clearly so that the plot hole in 24' goes away. If he's there to crush Shinji with false kindness, make that plain (a legit approach, because Angel). If his overtures of friendship are genuine explain why he can't just say "yeah, I'm not gonna do anything with Lilith, I'm just gonna hang with the lilim now".

-- Make impact mechanics more coherent. The fanwanking in my head is consistent, but a lot of it's inference and not what's depicted onscreen. Show us why Kaworu can't grab an MPE and do his thing. Show us why Lilith wouldn't work for his purposes. Make Seele's goal plain, show us how Gendo's differs, and explain how Yui's path intersects with or diverges from all of the above. I suggest something like this, but YMMV.

-- Make the interaction, if any, between EoE and EoTV plain.

In short, the show needs polish in a big way. What we have is sufficient; it works on every level, and is a brilliant achievement given the constraints on production at the time. But it is not perfect by any means, and in a perfect world would be tidied up in many little ways.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:13 am

View Original PostLavinius wrote:I like Reichu's ideas, except for messing with Asuka and making Adam 'female.' Adam is and should be hermaphroditic, as are Lilith and the Evangelions.

Ah, but you don't know that for a fact, do you? Do you?? :nyao:

SimplyMason0: Not a bad list, though I'd leave the masturbation scene where it is. It's so delightfully fucked up.

Bagheera: Also a good list.

View Original PostDream wrote:The majority of the posts in here are rather... Dissapointing, to be honest. And to tell you the truth, they make me more glad NGE is the way it is, in a way. Personally, i wouldn't change anything. Most of the pointed or perceived flaws are stuff i don't really considered a flaw or bother, nor worth getting worked up about. Plus i won't even pretend i have the skill or knowledge to improve NGE.

The list was just for fun. I don't take mine too seriously. Thinking about what you might change in your favorite show can give you lots of ideas for your own projects, besides!
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Literary Eagle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:47 am

Bagheera wrote:-- Explain Kaworu's purpose and goals more clearly so that the plot hole in 24' goes away. If he's there to crush Shinji with false kindness, make that plain (a legit approach, because Angel). If his overtures of friendship are genuine explain why he can't just say "yeah, I'm not gonna do anything with Lilith, I'm just gonna hang with the lilim now".


When Kaworu says "Because it's my destiny to continue to live even if it may result in the destruction of humanity" and "Now, erase me from this world. If you don't, you will be the ones who are erased", I took it to mean that Kaworu's Angelic instinct compels him to initiate Third Impact, no matter what his Lilin half wants. And of course, Kaworu decides that he doesn't want to do it, because he likes the Lilin and Shinji is his friend. In fact, that's what happened in the original drafts for the episode: Shinji hesitated too long, so Kaworu's Angelic instinct took over and he dove towards "Adam", leaving Shinji with no choice but to lunge forward and squish Kaworu into Angel paste. Yeah, yeah, I know drafts aren't canon, but the implication still seemed to be there. My guess is they removed it because they thought that Shinji having to make an agonizing decision about it would be more painful/dramatic, as opposed to poor Kaworu losing self-control and thus making Shinji's decision "easier" due to the immediate urgency. Having said that, you're probably right that spelling it out might have made this more comprehensible, because the Director's Cut of Episode 24 is such an info dump that it's hard to take everything in, especially upon the first viewing. :cringe:

As for what I would change... honestly, I already love the show a lot just the way it is. But I guess it would be nice to flesh out Rei's story arc a bit more, and/or introduce Kaworu earlier? Oh wait, there is one thing I really would like to happen: bring back Kaworu's wrist scars from the original Episode 24 drafts, because it would help to explain why Shinji had to kill him. If the scars meant that Kaworu attempted suicide but it didn't work, then someone else (Shinji) has to kill him in order to prevent Third Impact. Ouch. Yeah, sucks to be these guys.
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Postby Lavinius » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Ah, but you don't know that for a fact, do you? Do you?? :nyao:

Well, I kind of do. Firstly, there is no reason for an ancient space god to have the silly Lilim sexes, especially since they independently produced life, only some of which have them.
Also it's long been believed that Adam was created as a hermaphrodite, and the sexes only emerged once Eve was spilt from him.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:26 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Well, I kind of do.

No, you're just using inductions and assumptions to come to your own conclusions on the matter. Of course that's what you're meant to do, but it doesn't mean your conclusions are facts.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:55 pm

For some reason, I always thought of Adam as a dude. Hell, I thought that Unit-01 was a dude until I learned that it was a woman. However, I think my Adam thoughts are due to the fact that the biblical name Adam relates to a male.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:19 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:I'm interested in seeing your reasoning why.
The original series -- what I saw on first viewing -- stood on its own as Shinji's journey to self-acceptance; it didn't need any of the embellishments.
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Postby Gus Hanson » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:09 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:For some reason, I always thought of Adam as a dude. Hell, I thought that Unit-01 was a dude until I learned that it was a woman. However, I think my Adam thoughts are due to the fact that the biblical name Adam relates to a male.

That makes two of us. Unit 01's the most duded up in looks. :tongue:
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:32 pm

After careful consideration, I think the series would be improved by more "flash sequences"; those rapid successions of images that pop up when characters are considering things. If nothing else they'd give us all a better idea of what's supposed to be going on.
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Postby Dima » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:58 pm

I consider the show near-perfect but if i could add something it would be:

-Give Kaworu more screen time
-Toji becomes the pilot of EVA-03
-Gendo and Yui scenes
-6 more episodes
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Postby nervshatter » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:27 pm

Change Shinji's gender to female or what if Misato was a pilot of an earlier prototype eva unit before unit-00?
*sigh* just kill me already.

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Postby Gus Hanson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:23 pm

Give Kensuke his long awaited chance to be an Eva pilot which would've brought out some reality into that kid who thought that war is cool.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:29 pm

View Original PostGus Hanson wrote:Give Kensuke his long awaited chance to be an Eva pilot which would've brought out some reality into that kid who thought that war is cool.

I doubt it would make a difference, he was apparently still longing for it after what happened to Touji.
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Postby Catamari » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:33 pm

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:Change Shinji's gender to female or what if Misato was a pilot of an earlier prototype eva unit before unit-00?


That would make for some excellent lesbian humour. Although, the fanfic writers would be even worse than they are, now. Oh God why


View Original PostGus Hanson wrote:Give Kensuke his long awaited chance to be an Eva pilot which would've brought out some reality into that kid who thought that war is cool.


I think Kensuke would make a better pilot. He has a degree of self-reliance, loves guns, and loves war. What more could you ask for in the pilot a killing machine?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:51 am

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:Change Shinji's gender to female
That was Anno's original intention, until he was told that, after Nadia, it would be better to have a male protag. So Sadamoto just tweaked Nadia's design a little; and we ended up with the "Secret of Evangelion" copypasta.
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Postby Katana » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:34 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:That was Anno's original intention, until he was told that, after Nadia, it would be better to have a male protag. So Sadamoto just tweaked Nadia's design a little; and we ended up with the "Secret of Evangelion" copypasta.
I guess this picture is related to what you said:
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Postby LordThaeon » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:37 am

There's so many things that can be changed, but I'll keep my list short simply because putting down the whole list would basically be asking for an entirely different anime.

1) Make Misato more fair and responsible

Despite being Shinji's "big sister figure", she's clearly a hypocrite at worst and just as manipulative as Gendo at best. Even after everything Shinji has done, she makes him do all of the chores, keeps him at a distance, lets Asuka kick Shinji out of his room after he's lived there for over a month and basically does nothing to curb Asuka's bratty attitude.

2) Introduce Kawaoru earlier in the series

I kind of felt like he was a last minute addition to the original series. He's clearly an important character for Shinji's development, the story and the plot; but we never see him until the last episode. It was good, but it felt rushed like Anno couldn't fit Kawaoru anywhere else so he shoved him into the last episode.

3) Bring in Unit 04

Scrap that random dirac sea incident that happened and just say that the S2 experiment failed. Bring Unit 04 over after the Bardiel incident and give it to Kawaoru.

4) Call out Nerv for their honestly unethical stuff

How come Misato, Shinji, Kaji or anyone else never called out Nerv on why children are the only people who could pilot bio-mechanical demons of death?

On an ethical and rational standpoint, sending children into a war-time situation makes no sense. Yet no one ever calls out Nerv's personnel on their methods. Sure, one could argue that the ends justify the means...but considering that this is simply a complicated tug'o war to decide who gets to start Third Impact...there's no real vindication anywhere...

5) Let Charlie Brown kick the football

Consider this metaphor, Charlie Brown is Shinji Ikari and Lucy is Hideki Anno...I'll leave the rest to you.
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Postby Katana » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:41 am

View Original PostLordThaeon wrote:2) Introduce Kaworu earlier in the series

I kind of felt like he was a last minute addition to the original series. He's clearly an important character for Shinji's development, the story and the plot; but we never see him until the last episode. It was good, but it felt rushed like Anno couldn't fit Kawaoru anywhere else so he shoved him into the last episode.

3) Bring in Unit 04

Scrap that random dirac sea incident that happened and just say that the S2 experiment failed. Bring Unit 04 over after the Bardiel incident and give it to Kaworu.

Good ideas. What if they make an episode dedicated entirely to Maya, Hyuga and Aoba? They told us very little about them.


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