I dunno if I mentioned my take on things in this thread (maybe at the start), but I feel Anno had Asuka as Bardi's victim to take a different approach to the Asuka/Shinji relationship (whether or not it'll be a more mature approach, who knows). Something about that whole thing just gives me Re-Take vibes (sort of), but I think what'll happen is this: Asuka will probably still have feelings for Shinji, but be bitter (EoE-style?) at what happened.

Considering "Goodbye Day Today" has lyrics that talk about meeting again (and always being together), and "Tsubasa o kudasai"'s lyrics came true for Rei (Shinji saving her, Rei being free as it were), Shinji and Asuka will probably see each other again before/if 3I would actually occur; and if there is a kiss, Shinji would be the one to initiate it to reassure Asuka he cares.

With her possible other injuries/that eyepatch: Maybe it's permanent, maybe it's temporary. But if 3I happens, I think it could be cured from that.

Just speculation.

User-iel wrote:@ LiLi Aug 14 Creepy mental image O-0. Indeed. Wait for the doujin. A/S is better thought of as emerging element, not strictly potential, since the overtures occurred. In rebuild, Asuka seems to have voiced realization that she can seek both allies and a partner, so this is a part of the character. Continuity seems to require this to continue unless properly written out of the script.

I had forgotten about my own scary mental image. :shudder:

But perhaps you're misreading into my use of the word "potential"? I meant it as potential for future development of A/S in the next installments...

I didn't see Shinji showing any obvious inclination to ship himself with Asuka romantically in Rebuild... aand even Asuka's take on the matter seemed somewhat ambiguous/oddly developed to me. Alas, as for continuity, THINGS happened in 2.0 that may very well entail Asuka's own feelings vanishing/turning into something far creepier and crueler and colder...

Maybe she'll pull a Rei III?

Who knows?!

Look forward to the next episode!

Isn't Gendo past all those >hmpf< human morals at this stage? And he's just getting warm.

You read my mind, good User.

Due to chaos in the final three-cornered battle, Pen-Pen steps past all beings to be 'the beast who cried "Wark" at the heart of the world'.

A while ago, a friend of mine - whose true identity shall remain hidden - and I theorized, GNP^2 and the adorable Suzuhara-chan shall initiate 3I...

In terms of any "evidence" for a potential romantic pairing of Shinji and Asuka (IF things go this way), I say the following counts:

~This can count in terms of sexual tension purposes at least even though it was a comedy scene: Shinji seeing Asuka naked, Asuka freaking out, going into her "Stupid! Lech! Pervert! I can't believe you!" routine.

~Shinji before the battle with the 8th Angel commenting how he always feels relaxed in the Entry Plug and the scent of LCL is "the smell of mother, the smell of Ayanami".

~Asuka feeling lonely and willingly laying down with Shinji to have some company/talk to him about Eva. (keep in mind in NGE, Shinji tried to kiss Asuka in episode 09 even though they only knew each other for about a week or 2 weeks according to that episode). Also, Asuka Shikinami seems a lot lonely compared to Soryu: She doesn't seem as close to Hikari in 2.0, and tries to get rid of her loneliness by focusing on winning over Shinji.

~During a sequence of Shinji going to school (Maya's in there too, going to work ), Shinji watches Rei doing her "spacing out the window" thing before turning to stare at Asuka. For whatever reason, his gaze seems to linger on her longer then Rei... (That scene sort of reminds me of this.)

~Rei wanting Shinji and Gendo to get along, as well as trying to get along with everybody else, like Asuka and Ritsuko. This seems to go along with Rei=Lilith being the "hope that people can understand each other" from NGE. It also goes along with the theme of Rei being Shinji's two mothers in one being (everybody's mother as Lilith, and Shinji's mother as Yui)...

~Though this was there in the original series in terms of feelings, throughout the film, Asuka is pretty jealous of Rei's relationship with Shinji and wants him to give her attention instead, going as far as cooking for him similar to how Rei's trying to. (I wonder if Shinji got a chance to try Asuka or Rei's cooking at all or not. It's a shame there wasn't at least ONE scene for each girl about that...)

~Asuka due to her pride as a pilot as well as truly caring for Shinji agreeing to become Eva-03's test pilot so Rei could set up that dinner for Shinji and the others. While again, part of it is probably Asuka being Asuka, wanting to show she's the best, I say it's also some selflessness on her part.

~The lyrics for "Goodbye Day Today". The lyrics of "Please give me Wings" came true more or less for Rei during the actual film (with gaining freedom and such), so I think it's only a matter of time that this foreshadowing of meeting again happens for Shinji and Asuka too.

~Shinji freaking out enough after the 9th Angel battle to actually START tearing shit up with Nerv HQ. He didn't even go this far in the series, or the manga, when it came to Toji. That shows he cares a lot right there.

~Rei and Shinji's whole interaction throughout the film, especially after the 10th Angel battle when 3rd Impact seems to be more like family members or friends instead of anything else: Shinji's concern about Rei's health throughout the film, the way Rei wanted Shinji and Gendo to get along, how Shinji (selfishly in a way?) thanks Rei for that dinner instead of saying anything else (obviously he and Eva-01 were focusing on saving her before they talked but...). I mean, the sequence itself is touching despite the Apocalyptic implications, just bizarre on HOW Shinji could sense Rei was still alive among other things, but that's a different topic all together.

~Asuka alive at the end of the Next Time Preview for Q/3.0. Whether or not her eyepatch is permanent, Shinji just isn't swallow enough to let something like that effect his feelings for people.

My two cents... there's more I'd like to add but I have to check some things first... ;) Also, sorry for any mess, my internet is acting up again!


Personally, I think the fact some elements may point to Rei = Mother/Family (or not) (and hence RxS = Squick Factor = > SxR won't happen (?)) does not count as solid factual evidence for A/S over any other pairing IMHO...

Shinji not ending up with Rei romantically does not imply A/S necessarily.
It is not a binary Y/N scenario.

For all we know they could go with K/S.

Also, Shinji might very well have an Oedipal fixation, and Anno never was one to recoil from 'going there' or shocking the audience (*cough* Shinji and GNR 'merged' in a very suggestive position in Instrumentality in EoE).

Also, in NGE Misato dated Kaji BECAUSE he reminded her of her Dad!

I just thought I'd mention it because it seems to keep coming up...

As for the "embarrassing sexual tension scene routine" Shinji's had one of those with each main female of the cast - including Rei and Mari (and Misato, if you count her seeing him naked ;) ). You could say he's even had one with Kaji actually...

Not saying it can't/won't happen, but I don't think those elements count as factual 'evidence' for A/S...

:EDIT:

Sailor Star Dust wrote:~Rei wanting Shinji and Gendo to get along, as well as trying to get along with everybody else, like Asuka and Ritsuko. This seems to go along with Rei=Lilith being the "hope that people can understand each other" from NGE. It also goes along with the theme of Rei being Shinji's two mothers in one being (everybody's mother as Lilith, and Shinji's mother as Yui)...

~Asuka due to her pride as a pilot as well as truly caring for Shinji agreeing to become Eva-03's test pilot so Rei could set up that dinner for Shinji and the others. While again, part of it is probably Asuka being Asuka, wanting to show she's the best, I say it's also some selflessness on her part.

I certainly agree there was some selflessness on Asuka's part.

But... Why does Rei wanting Gendo and Shinji to get along count as evidence AGAINST SxR ship but Asuka lending a hand to the same dinner taking place for the same reason counts as evidence FOR A/S ship? (I'd note Asuka herself interpreted Rei's wish for Shinji's happiness to mean she liked him... *cue elevator scene*) :

Personally, while I think that Shinji's feelings for Rei - admittedly very strong, some might say in an anime-OTP-ish kind of way towards the end - are definitely open to interpretation, Rei did seem to be portrayed as liking Shinji... even though she didn't realize this herself...

I'd also add Toji's "married couple" comment to SSD's list.

To throw a foot in the door, I think I going to come clean. I want a Mari X Shinji. It would be similar to and Asuka X Shinji but I think Maris a little more energetic and upbeat than Asuka, I mean like Asuka can et really pissed off about something but Mari's more of a screw it who cares kinda girl and that would be an awesome relationship cause Mari could have much better "Make Shinji Awkward" moments.


Oh and for the record Lili, I was referring to Shinji picture.

"You smell good. You Smell like LCL."

That's an interesting theory on the song meanings there SSD. Well she did I guess in a literal sense gain wings, and she was flying in the sky, but it was extremely bitter sweet and short lived. I don't think it would be out of the ball park to expect a similar outcome regarding the goodbye song. Maybe the bitter reunion, like re take? Who knows. I sort of doubt that though seeing the "Quickening" preview, with my Asuka giving a smile .

Sailor Star Dust wrote:In terms of any "evidence" for a potential romantic pairing of Shinji and Asuka (IF things go this way), I say the following counts:

This should be fun.

Shinji seeing Asuka naked, Asuka freaking out...

I think this is probably aimed more at a psychological breakdown on Shiki's part, just like Soryu had one.

"the smell of mother, the smell of Ayanami".

Misato went after Kaji because he was like her father. The combination here may be meant to evoke this and the general 'people prefer people similar to themselves for romance'. There was that story about the twins seperated at birth who got married before they knew about their relation.

~Asuka feeling lonely and willingly laying down with Shinji to have some company/talk to him about Eva...

This is Asuka, not Shinji. No one is denying this.

...before turning to stare at Asuka. For whatever reason, his gaze seems to linger on her longer then Rei...

She *is* new, and foreign to boot.

~Rei wanting Shinji and Gendo to get along

So she wants her love interest to have his issues worked out.

The next couple points are Asuka being nice to Shinji, not Shinji being nice to Asuka.

so I think it's only a matter of time that this foreshadowing of meeting again happens for Shinji and Asuka too.

Yes, but are they meeting as lovers, or as friends?

~Shinji freaking out enough after the 9th Angel battle to actually START tearing shit up with Nerv HQ.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of this scene in the anime was time/budget, and feel obliged to note that the manga does copy things from the anime a bit even when it *could* be different.

Rei and Shinji's whole interaction throughout the film, especially after the 10th Angel battle when 3rd Impact seems to be more like family members or friends instead of anything else

I can't comment here, but... a lot of your stuff sounds like how two very shy interact in that desperate "I'm showing I care, so will please make the first romantic move?" way.

~Asuka alive at the end of the Next Time Preview for Q/3.0.

Rei is three times as alive as Asuka (*points to the Rei clones*), so by this logic, we'll have R/S :P

Legendary wrote:She *is* new, and foreign to boot.

I thought perhaps that scene is also meant to convey how, for all their apparent differences in personality, both girls are socially isolated/ introverts... each in her own way.

Legendary wrote:Yes, but are they meeting as lovers, or as friends?

Nobody knows lol, just sayin'.

Also, you should watch 1.0 and 2.0 before writing a rebuttal. Shinji calls Asuka "an important person" when stomping on Nerv before Gendo orders the LCL pressure to be maximized... although next time we see him in the Hell-train, Shinji mentions Asuka's a "friend who got hurt".

EDIT: I think I mentioned this before, but given how 2.0 is and the 3.0 preview information, I have a good feeling we'll be dealing with Rei 3 next time around. What this means for Rei and Shinji's relationship, who knows.

The Reifag in Combs says no.

Hmm, the lyrics for Kyou no Hi Wa Sayounara ( as translated by google) speaks of the goodbye and re-meeting of two "friends". I know it is google but I thought that was worth a mention

The song's already translated in the translation thread.

blah, I guess that's my fault again for not checking it, thanks.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Shinji calls Asuka "an important person" when stomping on Nerv before Gendo orders the LCL pressure to be maximized... although next time we see him in the Hell-train, Shinji mentions Asuka's a "friend who got hurt".

I think it's a friendly love, nothing more. He is a caring guy, he cares for people around him. He just doesn't want his friends being hurt.

i have to agree with LiLi on this one-- despite how strong i got the feeling that S/R isn't going to happen, and despite how much i do want S/A to happen, the former happening is not an indicative that the latter will happen. anno might decide to just screw us all over and have no ships, like in the original. maybe Shinji will get tired of ending up as the fandom bicycle only for the fact that he's the main character and somehow ended up surrounded by nothing but women (and kaworu).

and for the record, i thought the S/R interaction in 2.0 was... pretty shippy, actually. it's probably because i found it so shippy that i'm thinking it won't happen. but that's only my own personal interpretation, of course, and like i said, it doesn't mean S/A will happen. there really is no such thing as "factual evidence," not until we can see things in hindsight. right now these are just little details we may or may not see as "hints."

SSD wrote:Shinji watches Rei doing her "spacing out the window" thing before turning to stare at Asuka. For whatever reason, his gaze seems to linger on her longer then Rei...

in all fairness, Rei was just sitting there, so he was actually just lingering on her. Asuka actually moved (kicked some poor boy, if i recall correctly) so it may just be that he (and us) were seeing her kick the poor fella and then lingered on her. the time it takes us to take in her aggressive move might just be that, i wouldn't "count that" towards measuring how long he was gazing at her.

SSD wrote:Shinji freaking out enough after the 9th Angel battle to actually START tearing shit up with Nerv HQ. He didn't even go this far in the series, or the manga, when it came to Toji. That shows he cares a lot right there.

hmm. i hadn't thought about it that way, actually! you're right. in both NGE and the manga he was all "i'm gonna-- i swear i will-- just give me a sec and you'll see--!" but he didn't actually do anything before he got taken out, while in 2.0 he actually went for the action first and THEN the threats/insults. i guess many people take it to mean he just has a backbone this time around (to me it felt more like a big childish tantrum, TBH), but i guess it could be interpreted as a shippy thing... hmmm.

LiLi wrote:Also, in NGE Misato dated Kaji BECAUSE he reminded her of her Dad!

yes, but it was subconscious at first. and when she figured out what her subconscious reasons were, she freaked. Shinji already seems to be comparing Rei to his mother-- and not just a mother, his mother. there might be a difference there.

LiLi wrote:Why does Rei wanting Gendo and Shinji to get along count as evidence AGAINST SxR ship but Asuka lending a hand to the same dinner taking place for the same reason counts as evidence FOR A/S ship?

i thought they were both pretty shippy.

Rei tried to set up a dinner party because she wanted gendo and Shinji to get along, because she wanted Shinji to be happy.

Asuka made the decision not to crash in on Rei's dinner party DESPITE the fact that in not attending she'd be a) kind of helping Rei, someone she doesn't like all that much and has already identified as a rival for Shinji's affections and b) basically giving Shinji and Rei a chance to develop their relationship further, which we know is not an easy thing for her to overlook considering, again, that she's her main rival for Shinji's attention. that line of hers about how she "didn't like to see other people happy" and then her saying she's starting to see things differently basically tells me she put Shinji's happiness above what would make her happy (prying Shinji and Rei apart with gigantic pliers, probably). and she found herself feeling happy that she'd hadn't ruined Shinji's happy moment with his dad (and Rei). or tried not to ruin it, bardiel then forcing her hand on that issue.

so yeah, two different positions, both can be interpreted as shippy.


@wonderluster-- well, coming clean is always easier ;) true that mari's a lot nicer to Shinji, overall (then again, they did only meet twice). however, i think if we go by the "awkward moments" thing it could be anyone-- Shinji's just so damn easy to embarrass, after all... like LiLi said, he's had awkward moments with pretty much every other character out there.

Legendary wrote:I think this is probably aimed more at a psychological breakdown on Shiki's part, just like Soryu had one.

i don't follow you with this line. what do you mean, exactly?

Legendary wrote:Misato went after Kaji because he was like her father.

call me crazy, but i just can't think of that as a good thing. natural and probably unavoidable if you believe freud, but not necessarily healthy. and like i said above, when Misato figured that out she freaked.

Legendary wrote:The next couple points are Asuka being nice to Shinji, not Shinji being nice to Asuka.

i think SSD was pointing out S/A "hints" in general. she never implied that she felt these were from Shinji's PoV. so, um... what exactly were you refuting? (sorry, i'm slow and i get lost easily).

Legendary wrote:Rei is three times as alive as Asuka (*points to the Rei clones*), so by this logic, we'll have R/S

he freaked out when he found out about Rei III in NGE, though. he may react the same way this time around. he also may not.

and similarly, we don't even know if 3.0 Asuka will be a clone either hey, we may even get a double freakout!

trueno wrote:I think it's a friendly love, nothing more. He is a caring guy, he cares for people around him. He just doesn't want his friends being hurt.

...we'd have something similar with Rei in the zeruel battle, then?

that's actually the feeling i got out of this whole mess, originally. he somehow cared about Asuka and she got "killed," so when Rei, another person he cares for, is threatened, he won't let it happen again. simple. how exactly he cares for each of them just has not been defined.


i'm not even gonna try with the songs, i just suck at interpreting lyrics. i read over the translation for tsubasa wo kudasai and felt it applied more to Shinji which tells me i should just stay away from that topic...

Seriously carla, I don't know how to answer that one. I'm a sucker for a S/R ending...maybe I've read too mush S/R fanfics.

carla wrote:that's actually the feeling i got out of this whole mess, originally. he somehow cared about Asuka and she got "killed," so when Rei, another person he cares for, is threatened, he won't let it happen again. simple. how exactly he cares for each of them just has not been defined

Agreed. I think it will be defined in Q and 4.0 though.

carla wrote:anno might decide to just screw us all over and have no ships, like in the original. maybe Shinji will get tired of ending up as the fandom bicycle only for the fact that he's the main character and somehow ended up surrounded by nothing but women (and kaworu).

...and Kaji... ;)

Actually, my friend-whose-identity-shall-remain-hidden and I were fanwanking a nice(?) cr@ck!theory on the potential Mass Trolling value of Shinji ending up with Suzuhara-chan in/after RoE!Instrumentality (and I don't mean Touji...)

in all fairness, Rei was just sitting there, so he was actually just lingering on her. Asuka actually moved (kicked some poor boy, if i recall correctly) so it may just be that he (and us) were seeing her kick the poor fella and then lingered on her.

YEs, some poor guy approached her and she kicked him... personally, I do think counting the relative running times of sequences in that scene as 'evidence' for 'ship' is over-analyzing a bit, but hey, this is Eva! ;)

(to me it felt more like a big childish tantrum, TBH),

Gendo's with you on that one... I think he said something like, "We have no time to waste on a child's tantrum!"

yes, but it was subconscious at first. and when she figured out what her subconscious reasons were, she freaked. Shinji already seems to be comparing Rei to his mother-- and not just a mother, his mother. there might be a difference there.

I'd like to point out something that might be of interest...

That didn't stop Misato from sleeping with Kaji again, 8 years later. Also, we don't know exactly how long it took for her to decide to quit sleeping with him after she realized...

Similarly, Shinji freaked out when he found out about the Army of clones in NGE, but he seemed pretty chummy with GNR in the last part of EoE... ;) (We aren't quite told explicitly, if I recall, whether he freaked out to begin with cause he figured he had an Oedipal thing going there with the Rei or just because Rei was... an army of something else. Or both.)

I'd also point out that Shinji is younger than Misato was at the time of her relationship with Kaji... this nice girl reminding him of his mom probably has no overtly squicky implications for him (I doubt he suspected his Dad had cloned his Mom for the lulz?)

HOWEVER, the main reason I brought that up to begin with was simply to show that Anno isn't afraid to 'go there' and overtly address relationships/imagery entailing (un)healthy doses of 'Oedipal squick'... *cue also Rei/Shinji merged in Instrumentality*

he somehow cared about Asuka and she got "killed," so when Rei, another person he cares for, is threatened, he won't let it happen again. simple. how exactly he cares for each of them just has not been defined.

To be honest, while I do feel the element of not wanting to lose another important person was also there, even though I do like S/R, at first especially I was pretty... err, surprised at how epically ship-tastic that Zeruel sequence looked... O.o

I didn't get the same shiptastic vibes from the Bardiel fight...

(Just sharing my impressions here)

Like I said, I'm still not exactly clear on the nature of Shinji's feelings towards Rei overall, though.

@ lyrics:
I read somewhere (wikipedia?) that rumors had it the singer had written Kyou no Hi ha Sayounara after the death of her brother... I'll get back to you on those later though...?