3.0 + 1.0 Reactions

[Axx°N N.]

Years ago I remember someone saying, in a discussion about the way that Eva subverts expectations, that the conventional and expected way to wrap up the show would be that Shinji 'mans up', becomes a big hero, fights his dad in a mecha battle, and gets the girl. It's funny that that exact scenario has come to pass and people are happy about it. I'm not saying that this route can't be well executed and satisfying storytelling, but it's so counter to the spirit of what the original work was doing and what made it stand out. I hate that this is going to be seen by many as the 'true ending', as if the problem of Eva's risky and unconventional storytelling has finally been solved.

Co-sign to this and the rest of your post. To draw an analogy, the Elephant Man had closure in terms of resonating with its themes. It doesn't lack closure just because he doesn't get a hot babe at the end, transform into a completely different person, swear he'll never be sad again, and fix his abuser's secret inner traumas through a sit-down. I don't understand the notion that seems pretty widespread across the net that Eva having a happy ending and characters getting 'proper sendoffs at last' is some kind of intense relief and righting of wrongs, as if it's all that's mattered all along, believable sequencing of events and characterizations be damned. Eva's already had more optimistic takes on the ending (E26 & the manga) and those had more nuance anyway.

[catinajar]

First post in well over a decade. That’s what this film has done to me!

It didn’t have EOE levels of perfection, let’s be honest. In a 2.5 hour film, somehow the end felt rushed. And if psychological release was as simple as, in Kaworu’s case, ‘go with this man now and have a go at some watermelons’. But I hope it was supposed to be more symbolic of Shinji being able to help them this time around as opposed to EOE where they had to pull him up.

So glad we got a time loop confirmation and that Asuka was shown to be a clone finally (and that second eye being an ‘angel eye’ was a bit genius if I’m honest).

All in all I feel like it’s EOE for a new era of anime fans. Sure, if you released EOE now *we* would be happy, but it wouldn’t be a success.

And people talking about the religious imagery and wording; I presume it’s because Seele/Gendo are essentially looking to usurp God and overall it’s the story of how humans came to live on the earth in the first place. It’s pretty religious. So the imagery/naming is apt. I presume Mari betrayed someone at some point but dear God I am going to have to watch the other films again because I have aged BADLY since 1.11...

[catinajar]

Years ago I remember someone saying, in a discussion about the way that Eva subverts expectations, that the conventional and expected way to wrap up the show would be that Shinji 'mans up', becomes a big hero, fights his dad in a mecha battle, and gets the girl. It's funny that that exact scenario has come to pass and people are happy about it. I'm not saying that this route can't be well executed and satisfying storytelling, but it's so counter to the spirit of what the original work was doing and what made it stand out. I hate that this is going to be seen by many as the 'true ending', as if the problem of Eva's risky and unconventional storytelling has finally been solved.

Co-sign to this and the rest of your post. To draw an analogy, the Elephant Man had closure in terms of resonating with its themes. It doesn't lack closure just because he doesn't get a hot babe at the end, transform into a completely different person, swear he'll never be sad again, and fix his abuser's secret inner traumas through a sit-down. I don't understand the notion that seems pretty widespread across the net that Eva having a happy ending and characters getting 'proper sendoffs at last' is some kind of intense relief and righting of wrongs, as if it's all that's mattered all along, believable sequencing of events and characterizations be damned. Eva's already had more optimistic takes on the ending (E26 & the manga) and those had more nuance anyway.

I feel like this is the re-do : a totally different reality. In this reality Shinji got his head together at the end in a different way, which was more straightforward in terms of story telling. The nuance and complications were necessary to show an addled mind trying to make sense of all the chaos. This time Shinji gets it. And that makes for a more ‘conventional’ ending. That’s my take - I don’t think one erases the other. I think they are both necessary to tell the whole story.

[Konja7]

And if psychological release was as simple as, in Kaworu’s case, ‘go with this man now and have a go at some watermelons’.

I think the point seems to be that Kaworu needs to find his own place, since he is free from the loop at the end.

It seems Kaworu become friends with Kaji after the Near Third Impact.

[Axx°N N.]

I feel like this is the re-do : a totally different reality. In this reality Shinji got his head together at the end in a different way, which was more straightforward in terms of story telling. The nuance and complications were necessary to show an addled mind trying to make sense of all the chaos. This time Shinji gets it. And that makes for a more ‘conventional’ ending. That’s my take - I don’t think one erases the other. I think they are both necessary to tell the whole story.

I think I see it more or less the same way. For me though, the thing is that that's fine, or would be fine, it's just that it happened too quick for me. I personally didn't buy that Shinji became the stoic and level-headed one you describe based on the preceding events, or at least not with the speed they were conveyed to the audience.

[LightDragonman]

To paste another one of my posts from another site.

Honestly, despite my long winded post earlier, I'm not gonna say that I hated the film, far from it. Heck, there are things I liked about it.

The visuals, barring the occasional wonky CGI here and there, were gorgeous as always.

I liked seeing Rei Q develop in the beginning, even if she got yeeted immediately afterwards. Granted, her arc was more or less a condensed version of Rei II's from You Can (Not) Advance, but that's not an issue at all, because that film was, well, good, and Anno and crew really should've taken more hints from how it turned out.

Believe it or not, I thought Mari absolutely stole all the scenes she appeared in, in a good way. Even if she seemed to be channeling Zero Two a bit in terms of demeanor (heck, this film even has that show's director here as the chief animation director, so that may not be a coincidence).

Also, the way Shinji and Gendo's final confrontation went, going from a very Matrix Revolutions Neo vs Smith-esque fight with Evas to eventually a heartfelt reconciliation was neat too. Although it did get a bit overly pretentious at parts with all the storyboard sequences and literal set trashing.

So yeah, with all that, I can't exactly call it a bad film. I just wish that it was much better executed, and didn't feel so anti-climactic at the end of the day. Heck, if I'm being completely honest, 2.22 I think was the high point of this entire Rebuild saga, and felt like a more satisfying ending all things considered, even if 3.0 + 1.0 contains more resolution in terms of meta-narrative.

[catinajar]

I feel like this is the re-do : a totally different reality. In this reality Shinji got his head together at the end in a different way, which was more straightforward in terms of story telling. The nuance and complications were necessary to show an addled mind trying to make sense of all the chaos. This time Shinji gets it. And that makes for a more ‘conventional’ ending. That’s my take - I don’t think one erases the other. I think they are both necessary to tell the whole story.

I think I see it more or less the same way. For me though, the thing is that that's fine, or would be fine, it's just that it happened too quick for me. I personally didn't buy that Shinji became the stoic and level-headed one you describe based on the preceding events, or at least not with the speed they were conveyed to the audience.

Oh no I’m completely with you on that - it was rushed. I felt like we could have skipped some of the Ghibli-esque exposition in the village to make room for this to make more sense. I just think the plot was sound which is what people seem to be complaining about...

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

This is the most life-affirming movie experience I've had in a LOOOOOONG time.

Just...... Damn!

I've seen it twice already, and it's SO GOOD!

[FullMetalBiscuit]

I watched it twice back to back. Never done that before and I don't think I need to say much more to express how I felt about it.

[InstrumentalityOne]

People: Shinji is never going to get back in the robot, beat up his dad, and save the girl. Anno would never do that. He subverts expectations.

Anno: I will now proceed to do the thing I purportedly will never do, thus subverting expectations.

People: No not like that

Well it was a subversion, even if it was very straightforward. In Hindsight.

The Super Robot Anime NGE was a red herring. No matter how good he, Asuka or Mari are at piloting the EVA and not running away from fighting Angels, Shinji is, essentially still running away from his own feelings and his father. Even if he has a Total Badass Moment in the end of 2.22 which people liked because people wanna project themselves on Shinji.

Anno knew this and slaps the audience over the head with Q.
Getting In The Robot or sacrificing his own happiness or humanity does not make Shinji or his peers happy. Kaworu taking away his agency by forcing him to be happy does not work either.

Shinji's wish in 2 and Gendou's wish in 4 were basically the same.
This is further demonstrated in the final battle where their moves are the same and they don't make any progress by fighting.
They are both afraid of each other, but Shinji reaches out to him in the end and they reach an understanding.

Then he realizes that trying to rewrite shit (which is basically Anno talking to us directly on a meta-level), no matter how you remix the events, no matter how ridiculous and convoluted the plot devices get, shit is always gonna be the same and feel empty.

Catharsis cannot be reached if Shinji does not understand himself or his father. This is re-enforced continuously by several interactions between Asuka and Shinji throughout RoE. Take a stand, not by Piloting Robots Very Good but emotionally and with himself.

So in a way, RoE is basically what TV End was supposed to be, except Anno can now afford all the glitzy animation in the world and he himself has matured in the meantime.

This is further punctuated by the last scene by showing us Shinji as an ADULT. He hangs out with new big tiddy megane, leaving the other cast members and Evangelion behind.

Go touch some grass, bitch bois!

If you disliked this movie or felt betrayed because it did not fulfill your expectations and emotional investment, I think Anno's trying to teach you something.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

and WTF is that date?

It's one of the only dates we ever see in Evangelion. Unlike the series, Unit 01 doesn't have the 2014 date imprinted on the seat inside the entry plug, and we don't ever see any other calendars or anything like that. (There's a date on the train turntable in Village 3 that seems to say 2001, but some people think it says 12001.)

[Chrad]

Then he realizes that trying to rewrite shit (which is basically Anno talking to us directly on a meta-level), no matter how you remix the events, no matter how ridiculous and convoluted the plot devices get, shit is always gonna be the same and feel empty.

Unless you're rewriting the existence of Evangelion. Then, things will just get better and better!

[tnarg]

On my first viewing, I very much enjoyed it but I think the anticipation of waiting so long for it, combined with how dense sections of the film were, I felt almost numb by the end of it. It was so much to take in. Much like 3.0, my second viewing revealed how I truly felt and I absolutely adored it. Anno has given me closure. Shinji actually gets to be happy. Also there's something genuinely sweet and heartwarming about him and Mari at the end. Seeing him grown up and in a healthy relationship was beautiful.

[Natalie the Cat]

The real happy ending is that Mari is no longer forced to bounce through giant monster/robot battles totally unsupported now.

I mean, ouch. What, do sports bras interference with synch rates?

[aboose]

If this is by design, and I suspect it is, the irony is lost on Anno that by creating a comforting film drenched in fanservice and anime cliches, he's made something that can much more cleanly be treated as a fetish object, complete on a shelf, as part of an anime collection. Eva might be dead now, robbed of all mystery, but I don't think this isn't going to make anyone seriously consider the theme of returning to reality and not retreating into your obsessions. It's way too candy coloured, loud, filled with bouncy boobs, and disconnected from reality. It re-enforces anime fandom. That's fine, honestly. Anno's love for anime really comes out in this film, but the whole thing sits at odds with the whole 'go touch grass' messaging Anno is trying to express.

I've read a number of offensive, kneejerk responses in this forum and topic and have mostly grit my teeth and ignored them because I know everyone has their own opinions, biases, and reasons for liking or disliking Evangelion. It is the "flavor of the month" of certain types of fans to bash and hate on NTE as a punching bag to prop up the borderline religious status that the same fans put the original series in, and ironically some sort of dichotomy between "genius anno of the 90s" vs "one hit wonder who got lucky and is literal trash" being thrown around to create a human target for that punching. That's to be expected with this fanbase which is obsessive and pedantic.

But I just wanted to respond to say this is factually just wrong. NGE and EoE are my favorite pieces of media of all time, but the NTE impacted me just as much, if not more (possibly due to my age now and the story just feeling more relevant to the issues I have in my life) than the original series. I've suffered from things like depression, self loathing, misanthropy for all my life in an escalating way and this movie helped give me perspective. Yes, Anno lays it on thick near the end when he's practically self inserting himself and his loved ones into every single character, but that's a stylistic choice. To say that this movie objectively has a message that is at odds with reality is just wrong. I'd advise that you rethink your biases before making bold claims like this. The ending of EoE and the ending of NTE have damn near the same message, but with the build up and lead up differently. EoE is extremely Shinji focused and personal. NTE is based on catharsis of many surrounding characters simultaneously coming to realizations about the truth behind their motivations and happiness/unhappiness. Shinji is by default less emphasized due to that choice and as a result we get a richness of characterization of multitude of characters that the original series never offered.

[Chrad]

But I just wanted to respond to say this is factually just wrong. NGE and EoE are my favorite pieces of media of all time, but the NTE impacted me just as much, if not more (possibly due to my age now and the story just feeling more relevant to the issues I have in my life) than the original series. I've suffered from things like depression, self loathing, misanthropy for all my life in an escalating way and this movie helped give me perspective. Yes, Anno lays it on thick near the end when he's practically self inserting himself and his loved ones into every single character, but that's a stylistic choice. To say that this movie objectively has a message that is at odds with reality is just wrong. I'd advise that you rethink your biases before making bold claims like this.

Well, I'll cop to being wrong in my prediction. Genuinely, I'm glad you enjoyed the film and that it was helpful to you.
Personally I feel that the movie is extremely 'anime' in a way that contradicts a return to reality message, but I don't claim to hold an objectively correct opinion of the film or its message in that post or anywhere. I don't think such things exist.

The ending of EoE and the ending of NTE have damn near the same message, but with the build up and lead up differently. EoE is extremely Shinji focused and personal. NTE is based on catharsis of many surrounding characters simultaneously coming to realizations about the truth behind their motivations and happiness/unhappiness. Shinji is by default less emphasized due to that choice and as a result we get a richness of characterization of multitude of characters that the original series never offered.

Doesn't the ending of the TV series also present something like this, through the cases of Asuka and Misato being paralleled with Shinji?

[Dartz]

So I watched it but was quite detached through the whole thing. The South Pole sequence had me quickly thinking "How many tens of miles are they falling, long after re-entry?" given 20 Eva-lengths to the mile, and the great clouds of the things rising up to meet them, looking like dust in the distance.

I couldn't help but spot the plug for Moyoco's writing -- keeping it in the family, there, eh, Hideaki?


and WTF is that date?

Earliest settlement in Jericho was about 12,000 years ago. It's still Pre-Pottry but it probably ties into some arbitray Epoch like how Microsoft NT counts time from 1601. Beginning of the Holocene, probably --- to remove any funging about over AD, BC or CE.....

(I seriously thought it was a Father Ted joke for a minute --- then I realised it was July 19th the Ice Age ended on)

[hui43210]

We will see if it holds up as more people score it, but Shin is now the highest rated NTE film on MAL and #30 overall on the site.

Maybe Anno isn't such a hack after all.

[AdamMalkovitch]

It's really interesting seeing just how polarizing the movie is, reactions are so immensely divided. I don't think I've seen a single "it aight" reaction, you either think it's fucking amazing incredible, or it's trash doodoo. The power of expectations I guess?

and WTF is that date?

OH RIGHT THE NADIA REFERENCE, oh man this shit almost made me cheer at my computer watching it on that questionably legal site before the US got our amazon release. That shot is a callback to an identical shot of the Nautilus' dedication plaque in Nadia Secret of Blue Water, Anno's series he did right before NGE [still no clue how to embed images using this ancient forum UI so here's a link https://images.app.goo.gl/8Pep8BL2cDrKtWwt8
It's a bittersweet moment along with the remixes Sagisu did of his own tracks from the series in 3.0, you can tell they still feel bad about how poorly the series performed and how much time and money they "wasted" making it [which I always read the budgetary concerns in NGE as a reference to Gainax always just barely having enough cash before EVA exploded in popularity]

[Ray]

I couldn't help but spot the plug for Moyoco's writing -- keeping it in the family, there, eh, Hideaki?

It's also a storybook about a hedgehog, which is a callback to the very first rebuild movie and the original series. Surprised they brought it back, because they dropped all mention of the dilemma of wanting to be close without hurting people after the first movie.