EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

[Sachi]

Of course the one time I decide to share my current situation in this thread, there had to be this fucking explosion of an argument that makes me feel even worse than I already do because of how goddamn relevant it is. That said, I'll share anyway.

So for about two years now I've been living with two of my best friends from college; he and her started dating around the time we moved in together. We all go to school, we work to survive, and things have been going pretty great so far. We even make sure to party every now and then, but mostly we just drink at home between the three of us.

But lately things have gotten weird between myself and her. It started off mostly unsaid, mostly subtle gestures, but over the course of weeks it developed. I knew it was wrong even as it was happening, and I even tried to avoid it. A couple drunken nights it even got close, but it only took one drunken night alone together before things reached a breaking point. We ended up kissing, which lead to making out, but that was as far as it went. After that though, feelings started pouring out: feelings of attraction, romance, guilt, so on. We were both terribly confused, and no matter how we rationalized how wrong it was, especially when considering her boyfriend/my best friend, we couldn't deny what we were feeling. So we spent the rest of the night holding each other and simply talking about what happened and how we felt about each other. We laughed, we cried, but ultimately we came to the decision that it couldn't be and that we should probably not drink alone together anymore. We eventually returned to our respective rooms and called it a night.

The next morning we decided it was best to tell her boyfriend that we had made out, and they had a talk about it. Not too much later I brought it up with him apologized. He was surprisingly chill about it all, and I'm sure he appreciated us being honest about it happening. End of story, right? No.

Ever since then the way her and I talk and interact is different; whenever we make eye contact she has a look of sadness and longing, and I make the same look back, then we both look away in guilt. I'd received an occasional text message from her explaining how she couldn't get me out of her head. We both knew that everything had changed that night, but we both went about our lives as normal. Until it happened again, and while we resisted each other at first, it went much further by the end of it (not much further; we were both fully clothed the entire time, if that puts it into perspective at all). Afterwards we held each other and talked, mostly about how terrible we are as people, but about a lot of other things as well pertaining to how we felt about each other; we got really close and I gotta say that it was probably the most emotionally intimate I've ever felt with another individual, ever. It was tragic. Once again we asserted to each other that it could not happen ever again and we went to our respective rooms.

It's been a couple days since that. I'm so confused and ashamed about my feelings. The right answer is painfully obvious: stop. I don't want to ruin a long-running relationship and I don't want to lose a best friend; that should be the bottom line. But it's so hard to say no to her, especially when what I'm feeling is more than just lust. I hate myself for this.

[Bagheera]

Except that's not the case at all. Only in your warped understanding of the adage does it do that.

That "warped understanding" is both common and widespread. You're the only one here who seems to interpret it the way you do -- everyone else views it with distaste. Even if it's meant to say exactly what you say it does that still doesn't change the fact that the message is lost due to bad presentation for an awful lot of people.

Wait... you're not taking that personally are you dude?

No, of course not. Like I said, I understand why you did it, I'm just noting it's not exactly the best example to make your point. It wasn't meant as a guilt trip or anything.

Friday and Saturday man, you know I had the rave. I dunno, maybe I should have spent some time with you instead one of those nights. Certainly it would have amounted to a better time on Friday considering how fucking horrible the DJs were and that rave!chick decided to bring her friends along, and then through her behavior basically killed any belief I had that I had a shot with her. I mean really, Friday was just a miserable, wasted night. If I had known in advance I would have gladly chosen to get drinks with you or something.

Still don't get why you'd even want a shot with a JW, but whatevs.

Man, though, you know what my social life is like. You know I ain't got no real life friends to chill with. Thing is, though, I really do like those environments. I love the energy in the air. I love the way the crowd just gives in to the music. And, yes, I love much of the music (except dubstep, fuck dubstep).

Blasphemy!

Sachi: In all seriousness, have you considered not being exclusive? I know that's something not everyone can handle, but if she's really into both of you that option would save you all an awful lot of heartache.

[NemZ]

Sachi, that's a hell of a mess. Highly likely all people involved are going to end up unhappy and some or all relationships involved may be torn apart. Keep in mind that polyamory exists and there are several different shapes that could take. Even suggesting this is a risk, but not talking about it seems certain to lead to unpleasantness.

[pwhodges]

Polyamory is a thing - but my observation (though no personal experience) is that it is metastable. It can hold for a while, but ends up collapsing in an unpleasant mess.

In olden times you had a simple choice: call the other guy out for a duel over the lady, elope with her, or slink off to a hovel and write bad angst-ridden poetry. But of course, nowadays the girl has a voice too!

If practical, I would suggest moving out. You can still get together for your fun times as now; but if the girl turns out to be serious about wanting to change her affections, then it can be seen to be a more definite decision rather than a whimsy driven by your mere closeness.

And you get to write that angst-ridden poetry as well...

[Bagheera]

IMO polyamory is a short term solution -- as time goes by each individual will be driven by the arc of his or her own life, and it's unlikely those arcs will align. It's quite possible none of them will. But, in the short term, it's an alternative to the misery imposed by forcing an unnecessary choice.

But I agree that, if none are comfortable with the idea, finding a different living arrangement would be a good idea. No reason to make everyone suffer when it can be avoided.

[pwhodges]

^ s/if none are comfortable/if any is not comfortable/

Obviously, it has to be a complete agreement.

[Bagheera]

Well, yes. But I think the point is that it should be considered, nothing more. No reason to suffer unnecessarily, no?

[Sachi]

I know these people quite well; polyamory is not an option.

The living situation is actually complicated as it is at the moment. As of about two months ago, she has actually been in her own new apartment in the city since she transferred to a university there. That means it's just me and him in the apartment now, and we had actually been planning on finding a new, more affordable place to rent since we're now splitting 50/50 on the bill (and the total cost of rent just increased recently too). Now may be the time to untangle myself from their lives and find new roommates, but that's easier said than done. He definitely would be able to find a place in the area since he has family around here, but I'd be screwed. I have to at least get through this one semester of college before I can even think about being anywhere else but this area. Life is complicated enough right now as it is without this drama associated with it.

[Chuckman]

It'll get worse. Move when you can.

[CJD]

That "warped understanding" is both common and widespread.

Yea, and most people think the reason the sky is blue is because light reflects off the ocean. Doesn't make them right.

Also, the fact that ya'll are interpreting it that way doesn't say much considering a) none of you are even close to being participants said culture and b) you had a bias from the beginning and that influenced your interpretation of it.

No, of course not. Like I said, I understand why you did it, I'm just noting it's not exactly the best example to make your point.

So you found the example of me bailing on the room reservation at the last minute and sticking you with the bill more likely than me going off with a chick I meet at a bar? ...

The sad part is, even though I'd never even think of sticking someone with a bill like that, especially not for such a reason, it's still probably more likely than me hitting it off with some hot chick at a bar ( ._.)

Still don't get why you'd even want a shot with a JW, but whatevs.

Really it's pretty simple: She's an attractive chick who responded positively to me. My positive experience with women is so nonexistent that that's enough to get me to like a chick.

And truthfully, she's like the first chick to do that. The only thing close was the girl in Junior High whose locker was next to mine and I had a super crush on (incidentally the only other girl I asked out). But even though she was friendly with me and laughed at my jokes and whatever else, she also only interacted with me in a school setting. She didn't really have a choice on whether she dealt with me or not, and that's the key. Rave!chick did. She could have walked away from me. She could have asked me to leave her alone. She could have ignored me. If she didn't want to appear so rude she could have disappeared to "get water" and never come back to where we were, or she could have claimed she had to leave for some reason. But she didn't do any of that. Instead she thanked me for dancing with her, she asked me if I was coming back the next night and gave me her name and number so we could keep in touch, and told me to add her on Facebook. And the next night, she came back, and she was seemingly happy to see me. And she danced with me again. And when I asked if it was cool, she let me put my arms around her. Like, it sounds weird and creepy when I say it, but she let me touch her. No girl has ever actually done that before. Like yea I've touched girls duh we hold hands for like choruses or projects or exercises or something and we bump into each other, but no girl ever let me, let alone wanted me to, touch her for personal reasons. And yea, she likes anime and vidya too (even if her taste is seriously shit).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not stupid. I don't love her lol. Actually, I wouldn't even go as far as to say I'm infatuated. My feelings for her are no longer that strong (they used to be but then lel getting cockblocked by Yahweh). When pushed to it, I also don't think we could have a successful relationship. Again, sure she likes anime/vidya but her taste is still shit. I can pretend to like SAO/League of Legends for a little while but that's not something I can or want to maintain for a long period of time. Eventually it'd come out that I think SAO is garbage and League of Legends is a pay2win casual DOTA knockoff and that Riot is a horrible company that should be shut down. On top of this, her attitude is just way too different from mine. She's too care free and, well, normal. It's weird to call a JW normal but that's the truth. She's a 20~ year old girl and it shows from what she posts on Facebook. She took that stupid fucking Ice Water challenge and posted a video of it. If the fact that she thought it was oh so funny wasn't bad enough for our compatability, her demeanor in the video just radiates "I'm a 20 year old girl with normal 20 year old girl problems and normal 20 year old girl mentalities. Not only do I not spend time thinking about things like the meaning of life or the consumer/producer relationship in video games versus anime, but I also don't actually care and don't see the point." Were I to date someone, ideally I'd want someone who could at least respect and understand my abstract ponderings, even if she can't necessarily participate. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone I have to dumb my self down to to maintain their interest, nor do I particularly believe a long term relationship under that scenario would be feasible.

But yea, I "like" her, and I /could/ be wrong about her. So I figured I'd keep my foot in the door. I mean, it was essentially closed when she told me she was only interested in dating someone who was also a JW, but meh that could change. Though, admittedly, after her behavior at Otakon I've pretty much given up even that slim hope. She sees me as a friend and a friend alone. And not even a close friend. Which, in the end, is fine. Now that school started I've got countless more opportunities, and there's always new customers at work. I'm not interested in her so much that I suffer from oneitis.

Blasphemy!

I don't think I'd consider that dubstep to be honest. Someone more musically informed than I can correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds more like house to me. Possibly electro with some hints of progressive. I'm almost certain it's not dubstep though. Incidentally, it is a very good song.

[Compiling_Autumn]

1. Can someone please explain what a JW is?
2. CJD, it's good that you moved on, but who knows? Maybe there's a chance you could engage in some more fun times, touching, or even fooling around with this girl. Just because a relationship isn't in the cards doesn't mean she doesn't like you. Also, congrats on meeting a cool girl at a con and getting to dance with her.

[NemZ]

Jank Walrus?
Jesus-blood Wino?
Journeyman Wallpaperist?
Joyous Wallaby?
Jay Walker?
Journalist Wanker?
Jezebel Writter?
Justice Weasel?
Jordanian Whistle?
Jealous Wishmaster?
Jilted Wallflower?

[Mr. Tines]

I would have thought it obvious.

[Bagheera]

Yea, and most people think the reason the sky is blue is because light reflects off the ocean. Doesn't make them right.

That's not quite the same thing. People really are using the phrase in the manner we describe; like it or not rape culture is a thing, and this has been used to contribute to it. I get that there's more to it than that, but even so that's enough to get me saying "just drop the code already and treat people with respect."

So you found the example of me bailing on the room reservation at the last minute and sticking you with the bill more likely than me going off with a chick I meet at a bar? ...

Not really. Just saying . . . ah, never mind.

I don't think I'd consider that dubstep to be honest. Someone more musically informed than I can correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds more like house to me. Possibly electro with some hints of progressive. I'm almost certain it's not dubstep though. Incidentally, it is a very good song.

That whole OST is marvelous. I stick it on repeat when I'm driving all the time, JBL speakers cranked up as high as I can stand . . . the whole damn car shakes, it's great.

[CJD]

2. CJD, it's good that you moved on, but who knows? Maybe there's a chance you could engage in some more fun times, touching, or even fooling around with this girl. Just because a relationship isn't in the cards doesn't mean she doesn't like you. Also, congrats on meeting a cool girl at a con and getting to dance with her.

Nah, she lives like 40 minutes away. The con I met her at was a small one I went to in April located about a half hour away from me down in Lancaster, PA.

If she was closer than maybe we could chill, and yea that'd be the best bet of piquing her interest, but I'm not so sure. Thing is, so like I explained basically the gist of it I guess I'll give the rest. I went to the con with, admittedly, the intention of trying to meet a chick. Because yea, while I'm all apprehensive of consluts, I also think that it'd be a good way to try and meet someone because we automatically have something in common. The biggest problem I have in relationships, both friendly and the hypothetical romantic, is what we'd talk about or do. Again, my interests are almost exclusively video games and anime. To most girls, that's very off putting.

So what am I going to talk about on a date? Sure I could probably bluff my way through one or two dates, but quickly I'm going to have to reveal that part of my life, and the reality is most chicks won't be interested in hearing me talk about the latest Log Horizon episode or how I totally carried my team in that game of DOTA 2. So what the fuck am I going to talk about with a chick? I already have trouble connecting with people on a friendship level. No one at work knows about my interest in anime besides the furry cart pusher and my one coworker who asked me what the con I was going to (Otakon) was for. Nor do any of them really know how much I game (or used to game, between school and work RIPIP my free time). We talk about work, and we talk about people at work, and we talk about family, and sometimes they talk about their interests, but I never talk about mine. Video games a little bit, yea, they're socially acceptable enough that a lot of the younger guys there play them, but not the more hardcore shit that I play. Fuck, I have to bite my tongue and pretend I think Call of Duty isn't objectively shit ffs.

So Friday night before the rave I get buzzed quick to work up dat courage, then go in and start looking for chicks who are sitting by themselves. Figure conventional wisdom is that if you're sitting by yourself at a dance you want someone to take an interest in you. So I sat with this one chick but she was all nervous and ran away to her friends after a few mins of talking. Undeterred I saw another chick, who henceforth was known as rave!chick or jw!chick. So I sat down and we chatted and we hit it off a bit. Then we moved out to the floor but before I could even do anything some shirtless chauv starts dancing with her all closelike. So I'm like well fuck that guy. After a few mins she goes outside and I'm like wtf happened there so I go out to see. Turns out dudebro went and kissed her out of the blue and she wasn't exactly cool with that. After that we spent the rest of the night, me, her, and another concerned guy, just sitting on some steps chatting. At the end like I said she gave me her number and name and told me to add her on lebookface and that she was looking forward to seeing me tomorrow.

Weird thing was, though, I saw her a bit on Saturday and she seemed a little cold. She was with her friends (who didn't like the raves), though, so I thought maybe that was why (admittedly, a bad sign.) Then Saturday night though she's waiting at a table near the line and she seemed happy to see me. We went in and started dancing and spent the whole night together. Doing that thing you know with the gyrating the hips in unison to each other. Spent a lot of time working up the courage to get more intimate with her so when she backed into me once around midnight and apologized I was like "nah don't worry about it. I was just about to ask if you'd mind if I got closer myself." And she pulled me over to the corner and I put my arms around her on her stomach and we pressed together. Had a lot of fun and felt really good but then it ended.

We looked for each other Sunday but no luck so she messaged me on facebook and told me she had a lot of fun and hoped to see me again at Otakizzle. I was like yea no doubt but no reason to wait so long since she wasn't so far away that I couldn't come down and chill. We spent the next two or three weeks chatting on and off on Facebook.

Despite her super friendliness, though, and her behavior at the rave, I had my doubts she was actually interested in me. First, it was easy for me to write off the rave stuff as just environmental. I mean, it's a rave, we're dancing, it's not like she was riding my dick or something. Sure for me it was an important milestone that we embraced, but for her it could have easily been just a rave thing. Second, her coldness around her friends was offputting. Third, I was consistently the one who started the facebook chats. I wasn't stupid, I didn't message her everyday, and I was pretty casual about it (I think), but the most she ever did was comment on my statuses/pictures. I felt like if she was interested in me she would have taken more initiative.

But when I talked about it with various different people they all said they thought she was into me. The chats in particular they said my perception wasn't necessarily true because ˃the games girls play with relationships. So, on the high of my life, I came to the conclusion that I was probably just being self defeating. My anxiety and self worth issues were just trying to shut me down. "She's not interested in you. How could someone who looks like that be interested in you? You're just a pathetic loser." etc etc.

So finally one night in early-mid May I worked up the courage and YOLO'd it by mentioning that I would "be in town" "to see my baby cousin" and would she want to go get lunch or something? Needless to say, the minutes long e-silence was all the answer I needed. Alas when she finally did reply she said that it felt like I was asking her out on a date, and that her parents probably wouldn't be ok with her dating a stranger she just met at a con because they have some real "stranger danger based on stuff that happened in the past" and that she wasn't really somewhere were she could date right now. Well, I wanted to know what the future looked like so I asked, if she was somewhere she could date would she be interested in dating me? Again, silence. This time her answer was more surprising. 'No, because she's very religious and she's waiting for someone who shares her faith.' Cockblocked by religion. Goddamn, I thought those days were over.

Thing is, I figured she was pretty religious. She was home schooled (which was a huge red flag when I first saw that on her profile) and she was a Jehovah's Witness. But even though that raised flags, I didn't give them much weight because of her actions. I mean, here's a girl who plays vidya, watches anime, cosplayed at an anime con, loves kpop and kdramas, and went to a bloody con rave. If she was a fundie that shit would be huge nonos, right? Well to quote the great Lex Luthor, WRONG! Turns out she can apparently do all that shit, Jehova's Witness doesn't prohibit it, but she can be exiled for marrying someone of a different religion (so dating someone is a huge no no too). African-American brother wtf? I thought JW's were just all about that missionary work and a little weird. After reading some stuff on their religion, they sound more like a fucking cult. Man they make Mormon's look normal.

So yea, long story short she's a cool chick who just so happens to be a member of a cult, and said cult cockblocked me. I suppose my only regret is not following up her answer about only dating other JW's with whether or not she would have dated me if I was a JW. Not to imply that I'd convert, because I won't, nor would I insult her like that, but to find out whether she's actually interested in me. Is the sole thing keeping her from dating me her religion? Does she see me in a way, does she find me interesting enough, that she would be willing to date me, religion aside? Or does she find me unattractive, does she see me just as a friend? Unfortunately I was just so thankful she gave me a straight "No." and didn't play me that it never occurred to me, so when she apologized and said it was her fault for making me think she liked me, I just told her not to apologize and that I'm grateful for the straight answer.

So yea, that's the story of my pursuit of rave!chick. Fellows from chat will be well familiar with it but most of you guys are hearing it for the first time.

Jezebel Writter?

I want someone to step on my dick, not tell me I should be ashamed for having one and chop it off.

[Chuckman]

Sit on. You mean sit on your dick.

Right?

Please?

[CJD]

Why not both?

[Compiling_Autumn]

Great story. I would agree with your friends who say that she was attracted to you.

I had no idea anime conventions were that fun/debauched. Maybe I should start going to them.

[Guy Nacks]

I want someone to step on my dick, not tell me I should be ashamed for having one and chop it off.

Hey, I'm all for footjobs, but personally I think stepping on/trampling is a little too much for me. And yeah, if her religion is getting in the way of you both being happy, just axe the relationship off altogether.


There has to be a joke somewhere about a JW, a Scientologist, and a Mormon walking into a bar somewhere....

[Chuckman]

By the by, homeschooled Jehovah's Witness sounds like a recipe for freak-ay.