Shikinami really isn't so bad

[Mr. Tines]

It effectively crosses her out from the fanservice list. Then again, there is a niche for everything.....

I'll just leave this here again ... [url]http://www.katawa-shoujo.com/[/url]

[carla]

bringing this over from the "rebuild is fanfiction" thread, because it really fits better here...

i don't know how clear-cut it will be (people are complex, man. i'm complex. my mind is very convoluted. i'd be the first one to accept that), but all i can do is try to put in words my own case, as an example:

i always related to Asuka, even back when i first watched NGE. i thought her pride, her insistence on pushing people away despite the fact that she didn't want to be alone, was very close to the way i felt, and the way i treat people. thing with NGE!Asuka is that her mother went crazy, couldn't recognize her own daughter, and killed herself in front of the child. and that is why Asuka is the way she is-- a completely valid reason, in the most extreme sense. now, i never had that happen to me. i still have my mom, and she loves me, and i love her very much even if i can't actually bring myself to say it. believe me, i hope to god something like that never happens to me. so it's not that it's difficult to relate to NGE!Asuka, it's that i feel like i'm exaggerating when i do. she had it so much worse than i did, who the hell am i to complain about my life and my stupid little problems when this girl's mother asked her to die with her?

rebuild!Asuka is closer to my reality at the moment, being a girl who's lonely, but feels she shouldn't be, someone who pushes people away because it's the only way she knows how to handle human interaction. that is a lot closer to who i am, to the way i react in my real life. so it's easier to identify with her-- up to this point, at least. who knows what's going to happen over the next two movies.

regardless of her background, though, i still identify with Asuka. i always will. relating to her is just easier if i don't feel completely hystrionic because of it.

So Rebuild!Asuka is a superior character...because her backstory hasn't been revealed yet? She could just as easily have one twice as melodramatic as that of her TV counterpart.

@lucretius-- note that i never used the word "superior." i like them both very much. i think NGE!Asuka was an amazing character. and i would like to have more background info on rebuild!Asuka, actually.

i just think the ambiguity about her at this point makes it easier to emphatize with her, because it leaves open the possibilities for other, different circumstances that could've marked her life and made her who she is-- circumstances which could potentially be closer to my own. the uncertainty about her background allows me to think that maybe it was smaller things that defined her, which is more similar to my own situation.

i always felt NGE!Asuka's circumstances were rather unsurmountable-- and i just can't relate to that. i see myself in her reactions, but not in her motivations. it's harder to see my own struggles in her struggles, when her struggles are so, so far beyond mine.

of course, if it turns out rebuild!Asuka does have a background that is just as extreme or maybe even worse than the original, i'll be left feeling a bit like my own problems are insignificant-- like i did with the original. but that's fine, 'cause like i said, i identify with Asuka regardless of her background. it's the way she reacts to the world that reminds me of myself, and that's there whether or not she had a crappy childhood. so although i can relate to both, it's just whether the cause of those reactions is closer to my own or not, that makes one easier to relate than the other. well, so far.

this is complicated, i know. but what can i say, it's the way i feel.

feel free to add to the discussion.

[Azathoth]

I suspect 3.0 will open with the oft-theorized Bardiel mindrape sequence of Asuka and will continue to follow her perspective for much of the film. I've seen some commenting here and there regarding how that wouldn't work or that it would be cheap, but I'm simply not feeling the same way.

I've heard this before, and I wish I could believe it. Since Rebuild is doing its damnedest to eliminate all perspectives, opinions and feelings other than Shinji's, though, I can't bring myself to.

A similar situation was used in the first two LotR films. Gandalf is taken out of the picture by falling into that pit then we follow the rest of the cast for a substantial time. The second movie opens with us following Gandalf down that pit in what seems to me to be a somewhat metaphysical situation and eventual death/rebirth (I'm probably wrong about some of that; not really a LotR fan). Anyway I bring up this example because I feel it worked very well; I look forward to something similar in Q.

Actually he mostly is just falling into a really big goddamn hole. The whole metaphysical thing comes later, when he dies fighting the Balrog on the peak. Think of Gandalf as a Kaworu-type, if you will; an angelic soul manifest in a relatively human body. He goes into his own private little Instrumentality/reverting to oneness with God/whatever thing upon the failure of that body, and then gets kicked back into his body because of the Divine Plan or something (this part is a bit of an asspull, even for Tolkien).

Say, funny how well Lord of the Rings and Eva go together, isn't it?

Honestly though: the point of the Gandalf sequence in Two Towers is to open the movie with a bang and prep the audience for his return later in the movie. We've already been prepped for Asuka's return, so that leaves opening with a bang. And, true enough, a pseudo-action sequence that doesn't involve a Bardiel flashback would be a little difficult to come up with - 00 and 02 are out of commission, 06 already lanced 01 and thus has no opposition - maybe Seele orders yet another ground invasion of NERV? That may actually be more likely; that has to happen relatively early in the movie if we want time for Gendou and Fuyutsuki to embark on the quest for Arka or Mount Doom or whatever it is.

I don't know. It's possible, of course, and I'd be heartened by that happening, but 2.22 does not give me a great deal of hope for the possibility of anything Asuka-centric.

In my observation and opinion, though I likely won't be able to defend it to anyone's content, 2.22 was told from Asuka's perspective more than Shinji's (at least from her arrival until 03's activation). Her's was the voice of reason; she was the character I feel that the audience could most identify with.

Yeah, and then Unit 03 pops up and she stops being relevant in the slightest, except for getting thrown away in a couple of lines to remind any just-with-us viewer that she got fridged. She serves only to illuminate another aspect of Shinji's character (his inability to choose between tits or daddy, basically) and then when she's done that she's out the door.

As to the identification...well, I've never been mauled hideously to further someone else's character development, but from time to time I do get the feeling that I'm not a main character in my own universe. So yeah, I guess I can see what you're saying.

[SaltyJoe]

^ I agree that 3.0 will probably open on Seele overtaking Nerv. However, i had an idea that would tie an Asuka centric sequence into the possible plot of Q neatly.

Have Kaworu awaken her from her coma via mindhacking. Why? When Ritsuko dubbed her a "priceless specimen", my immediate assumption was that she is valuable for Seele's purposes. The whole Bardiel experience makes her the first person to get deep inside an Angelic being (two, in fact), "loosing human form", something that also happened to Shinji (Ritsuko uses a very similar wording to describe what happens to them, although there are differences. I wonder whether that's because of gender, or something more) near the end of the movie, and she is the first one (as far as we know) to make it back more or less alive. I guess that getting Shinji and Rei out of Unit-01 will be a more difficult task, besides he needs to stay in Shogouki for a while to get some Yui. But Asuka is already there, in the flesh, as a separate being.

So, if Kaworu is acting on Seele's whims, they might command him to awaken her because *Keel voice*:"The Second Girl is the firstborn of humanity's new Genesis" or [/insert something esoteric and corny here].
It would be like the twisted, mindscrewy version of Sleeping Beauty sans romance, with Kaworu diving into Asuka's mind, whether she likes it or not.

And we would get
a, exposition on Seele's master plan with the Children.
b, exposition on Asuka.
c, Kaworu in action.

It's a whole array of birds with one stone. And it all could be done in no more than five minutes. I think i'm gonna send this to Khara in an e-mail .

[esselfortium]

I've heard this before, and I wish I could believe it. Since Rebuild is doing its damnedest to eliminate all perspectives, opinions and feelings other than Shinji's, though, I can't bring myself to.

Same. I've thought myself that if I were to write 3.0, this is more or less how I would open it, and it's about the only way I can imagine it making any narrative sense to show Eva-03 from Asuka's perspective. It could potentially even make the Bardiel plot palatable, though it still wouldn't excuse some of Shinji's and Misato's dialogue relating to it.

But yeah, I doubt we'll get it. Everything in 2.0 leads me to find it incredibly unlikely that we'll get any major scenes about Asuka. The most likely situation is probably that she'll die for real in some big battle and then never be mentioned again.

Yeah, and then Unit 03 pops up and she stops being relevant in the slightest, except for getting thrown away in a couple of lines to remind any just-with-us viewer that she got fridged. She serves only to illuminate another aspect of Shinji's character (his inability to choose between tits or daddy, basically) and then when she's done that she's out the door.

As to the identification...well, I've never been mauled hideously to further someone else's character development, but from time to time I do get the feeling that I'm not a main character in my own universe. So yeah, I guess I can see what you're saying.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts, better than I did.

edit: Interesting idea, SaltyJoe. And for Khara, it'd also mean doing all those things while keeping Asuka unconscious and out of the picture for all scenes leading up to it, which would mean more time to remind us about Shinji's dad issues again. Everyone wins. Well, maybe.

[carla]

Honestly though: the point of the Gandalf sequence in Two Towers is to open the movie with a bang and prep the audience for his return later in the movie. We've already been prepped for Asuka's return, so that leaves opening with a bang.

mind you, it's not like we didn't know gandalf was coming back. he was in the trailer for the two towers. and, this being a book adaptation, it isn't exactly like it was a big secret anyway.

you know, i don't really have any "feelings" as to what's going to happen to Asuka in 3.0. i know from the trailer that she'll be back in some capacity, and i can think of many ways i hope her involvement in 3.0 will go, but all that two second shot tells me is that she'll be in at least one scene. it may be in continuity. or maybe it's a flashback scene and she's not even really back. it could be a hallucination-- at this point, i have no way of knowing. but if i've learned something about trailers (not only EVA trailers, but in general) is that i can't take them at face value, because i don't know the context.

speculation is fun, but as of now, i can't be positive or negative about Asuka's comeback. i can't even say "oh, of course she's going to come back just to be useless and then die, because that's what happened to her in 2.0," (even if i believed that) because the tone of one movie isn't necessarily indicative of the tone of the next movie, as 1.xx and 2.xx clearly showed.

i hope Asuka will be back for real, and i hope she will get some decent screentime and development, but a glimpse of a smirk and an eyepatch does not an accurate prediction make. as far as i'm concerned, at least.

I've never been mauled hideously to further someone else's character development, but from time to time I do get the feeling that I'm not a main character in my own universe.

well, i guess some of us did see something in her other than just her getting mauled by bardiel.

(and sadly, that does happen sometimes. but going into why bad things happen to good people for no apparent reason is just getting into an existential/religious debate, which i think is not the idea of this thread).

i took it more as one of those "things are looking up, you're starting to get better... and then it all goes to crap. yes, life sucks that badly" moments. hoping for 3.0 to give me the "...but you can come back stronger" part of that lesson, personally.


@saltyjoe-- i like that idea of kaworu forcibly waking Asuka from her coma. very interesting! i'm wondering if anything kaworu does (or has done, so far) is actually on SEELE's command, though. all i gathered from his words was that he was doing this for Shinji. i'm guessing he's still actively related to SEELE, given that he was in their base and he's using their eva, but he could be double-crossing them and using the advantages they give him for his own gain (or Shinji's gain, as it stands). in that case, what would he gain by waking Asuka up? what intricate plot is he planning? hmm. interesting possibilities.

[SaltyJoe]

IMO, Kaworu has to act on Seele's whims, simply because, otherwise, Keel and his Gang doesn't have a whole lot to go on with. I mean, if their bishy demigod with the uber Eva betrays them, then they're effectively powerless to influence anything. And, though the story is about Shinji, the plot is about Seele, Gendo and the Human Instrumentality Project. That's the driving conflict.

As for why getting Asuka to wake up would be needed: Gathering Of Children, bla bla. Mock-up footage or no, the events that were mentioned in the trailer for 2.0 at the end of 1.0 were in the movie, in a chronological order no less, so i guess that much is true for the 3.0 trailer, too.

Also, recall the end of 1.xx, wherein Kaworu states it's time that they, as in, him and Seele enter the general phase of the plan.

[chestylarou]

Did anyone mention that the name change for Asuka might be a setup for showing something to do with her "step mother/family"? I know in the series they don't mention much about her family (only her mother and father really), but there is that short scene in which she is seen talking to a stepmother of sorts. I was personally wondering if they might be trying to set up some scenario that she had been adopted. Like her last name used to be Soryu, but then she gets adopted and her new family has her change her name to fit in.

The other thing I was thinking of, that I didn't see any other mention of, is that the name change is used in some sort to distance herself from her family and the incident that happened with her mother. Since she seemed to truly hate her mother for leaving her alone through most of the series. (Of course this theory would only make sense if they keep true to the series storyline, but considering all the other changes this theory is a super far stretch.)

I was just curious if anyone thought of it this way before.

*EDIT*

No matter how I look at it the name change has just gotta be a setup for her backstory in 3.0. Thats the only way to explain the huge change.

[Killer Bee]

No matter how I look at it the name change has just gotta be a setup for her backstory in 3.0. Thats the only way to explain the huge change.

You mean other than "lol it rhymes?"

Seriously, though, it's clear that Shikinami's backstory is VERY different from Sohryu's. Asuka obviously doesn't have a problem with dolls this time around and we don't even know if Kyoko is dead.

[Eric Blair]

and we don't even know if Kyoko esists, or if that's her actual name.

Fixed for you.

@Topic: it's already been said, suggested, debated, fought over, explained, metaexplained and shot down; everything from it being a different alliteration of Soryu, to simply being Anno's "I want the three main girls to have "Nami" in their last name because One piece is really REALLY big in Japan and the states", passing through the "step mom" which is ridiculous since the step mom is supposed to be German and Shikinami is not exactly Kraut.

At this point, the only thing people who are interested or morbidly moved by it can do is wait for 3.0 and 4.0 to come out and hope that Anno actually thought this one through as opposed to simply making a switch without making an explanation and saying some shitty cop-out line like "Shikinami can mwan whatever the fan wants it to mean."

[chestylarou]

Ah sorry then guys. I didn't mean to beat a dead horse. I guess the name change thing irks me the most about Rebuild and I just want an answer now dammit!

[Lucretius]

Seriously, though, it's clear that Shikinami's backstory is VERY different from Sohryu's. Asuka obviously doesn't have a problem with dolls this time around and we don't even know if Kyoko is dead.

Prediction: Asuka's backstory is exactly the same, if she's given one at all. The scene in which she plays with her doll is too downbeat in tone for the doll to have a positive significance for her.

[Eric Blair]

I guess the name change thing irks me the most about Rebuild and I just want an answer now dammit!

Join the club; I'm not only a member, I'm the president.

Prediction: Asuka's backstory is exactly the same, if she's given one at all. The scene in which she plays with her doll is too downbeat in tone for the doll to have a positive significance for her.

I still think Anno is gonna rip off the back story from Nausicaa, or Tabitha from Zero no Tsukaima, which is ironic seeing as how physically, Tabita is an expy for Rei, and has red-colored glasses like Mari.

[Sailor Star Dust]

which is ridiculous since the step mom is supposed to be German and Shikinami is not exactly Kraut.

Uhh:

Gendo: Unit-01 will continue to sortie. Unit-02 and its pilot are in Germany undergoing deployment qualification exams.

Also, the official Evangelion website says that Shikinami is from Germany:

式波・アスカ・ラングレー（CV:宮村優子）
EVA2号機に乗る「第2の少女」。
ドイツ出身で、プラグスーツのイメージカラーはレッド。
勝ち気な性格と気持ちをストレートに反映した言動で周囲を圧倒する

Shikinami Asuka Langley (CV: Miyamura Yuko)
Rider of Eva-02, "The Second Girl".
Appearing from her country of origin Germany, her plugsuit's image color is red. Determined personality and a feeling of applying straight speech and conduct in her surroundings is overwhelming.

so at least that part about Asuka wasn't changed.

[Eric Blair]

I meant "Shikinami" as a last name of the stepmom isn't exactly german.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Oh. Then I fail at reading comprehension.

Although I guess clarifying that Shikinami is still from Germany isn't so bad.

As an aside, it seems the character information on the Eva website is what's included in the booklets (or what will be in 2.22's case)... For instance, Rei's section mentions the "there's an artificial feeling about her" from the 1.11 booklet, along with some newish for 2.0 stuff about the smile helping her change her personality.

[Eric Blair]

Oh. Then I fail at reading comprehension.

Yes you do; I don't wanna talk to you anymore.

[chestylarou]

One more question before I retreat back to my own little world.....

Did you perhaps discuss the fact that Soryu just didn't sound Japanese enough?

[Azathoth]

Did you perhaps discuss the fact that Soryu just didn't sound Japanese enough?

...but it's a Japanese word. Eva is marketed to the Japanese. I'm sure they're qualified to recognize a word in their own language.

[Eric Blair]

Did you perhaps discuss the fact that Soryu just didn't sound Japanese enough?

What does it sound like to you? Russian?