[LAEM] PG-13 or R?

The place for all of the old Live Action Evangelion Movie threads.
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Postby snowballreborn » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:27 pm

Movie ratings
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzbE0wpqeKc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.THAT WIKI%2FMPAA&feature=player_embedded[/url]
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Postby Timstuff » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:29 am

snowballreborn wrote:Movie ratings
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzbE0wpqeKc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.THAT WIKI%2FMPAA&feature=player_embedded[/url]


^ LMAO. :grin:

Anyway, the Evangelion series for the most part wasn't that bloody anyway. There were a few episodes that had a lot, but since it's technically "monster blood" they could probably tone it down just a bit and still keep a PG-13 rating. I always thought that the fountain-o-blood shot from when Eva 01's eye got impaled was kind of stupid anyway, so I wouldn't miss it.
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Postby snowballreborn » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:53 pm

I think one of the most interesting things about evangelion is how brutal and disturbing it is to see an evangelion ripped to shreds and spray LCL. The art is made to have the audience give the same response to a human character being ripped to shreds. Normally you'd think that no one would become disgusted watching a machine ripped to bits but then later on it is revealed that evangelion is almost a living thing.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:55 pm

snowballreborn wrote:later on it is revealed that evangelion is almost a living thing.
Episode 3 early enough?

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Postby JKun76 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:40 pm

If the infamous hospital scene in EoE is the problem they could probaly could get a PG-13 rating by doing the scene the way the manga did it (you know without all the masturbating).

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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:07 pm

Freakazoid, always helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nctIzXbEAV4&NR=1
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Don't even know why this is an issue?

It's all money based. Neon Genesis Evangelion and End of Evangelion (even Rebuild of Evangelion) can all make the risky gore laden, psychologically damning artistic choices because ultimately they're pretty cheap affairs. In American dollars I don't even think the Rebuild films come up to a budget of $20 million.

To do these films live action would require the amount of money it takes to feed Africa in a year. You're looking at budgets of $150-200 million PER FILM. You loose those kind've choices when that much money is at stake. And don't forget to tack on a minimum $100 million + for marketing, bringing the whole affair per film to about $300 million +.

You can throw as many reasons as you want in the air BUT if Evangelion Retarded: The Live Action ever happens the films will all be PG-13.

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Postby Timstuff » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:31 pm

Marketing rarely ever reaches 100 million. $60 million is generally considered to be the megaton of marketing budgets, so with Evangelion I imagine that the first film would be $150 plus another 30-40 million in advertising. If it's a giant smash hit, then the sequel might get a budget of 200 million with a marketing campaign of about 60 million. Your point still stands, though-- with marketing costs included, the first movie's budget will likely teeter close to 200 million, which is no chump change by any means. Dropping that much money on an R-rated film is a major gamble that rarely pays off.

On rare occasion you'll get a movie like the Matrix Reloaded which cost 127 million and made back $738 world wide, but typically a $100 million + R-rated movie at best barely breaks even, and at worst posts a loss when all's said and done. If Evangelion is R-rated it's highly unlikely that it would have a budget of $100 million or more, and given how expensive the project would be I don't think it could be done justice without a budget of at least $130 million. Also, the movie stands to make back even more money off of merchandising, but if it's R-rated then that pretty much goes out the window.

IMO, it all comes down to what you think is more important: doing justice to Evangelion's visual grandeur, or having more gore and boobs?
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:00 pm

Domestically yes that's about how much a studio will spend on a film. But once again studios will work hard to keep their mum on the overall world marketing of a film.

Worldwide Transformers 2 marketing budget was $150 million. Harry Potter 6 (a name that should sell itself) surely has a marketing budget north of $120 million right now.

Regardless I say don't do it. BUT if it has to fucking be done, do it PG-13. A film studio is not gonna have the freedom to do what Anno and co did in later films (anyone expecting Giant Naked Rei, Shinji/Sean masturbating on comatose girls, heavy vagina imagery or even the actual end of the world, guess what, it ain't gonna happen) so they might as well just set out to make a decent action series that people can enjoy. Any life action Eva will be more along the lines of the first half of the series- with some emotional troubles, wacky hijinks, and a few close calls- and not the second half. So don't waste your time holding you're breath.

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Postby Timstuff » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm

We might still get Giant Naked Rei-- they'll just have to make sure to put a bit of extra "modesty glow" on certain areas. ;)
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Postby TheLobe » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:09 am

didn't the Japanese government use lots of censorship after Evangelion. It's funny cause most animes have large amounts of nudity, but the actual sex was the main worry, despite the fact we didn't see anything(RIPOFF)

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Postby snowballreborn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:50 am

perhaps it will get shot independently like Mr. Vaughn is doing with the Kick-Ass adaption. Then they will sell it to a major studio. Without a studio backing it from the beginning they can get away with almost anything.

But on a low budget the film would probably look like shit :/
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Postby Timstuff » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:30 am

snowballreborn wrote:perhaps it will get shot independently like Mr. Vaughn is doing with the Kick-Ass adaption. Then they will sell it to a major studio. Without a studio backing it from the beginning they can get away with almost anything.

But on a low budget the film would probably look like shit :/


And that's what it all comes down to: what's more important, having lots of gore, or being good? Given that a decent Evangelion movie would require a bigger budget than an R-rating can allow, I'd say they're pretty mutually exclusive. I'd rather have a PG-13-safe version of Evangelion that actually does justice to the show than one that only cares about preserving the more visceral and risque elements at the expense of everything else.
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Postby backseatjesus » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:56 am

Having realistic looking graphics is completely different from being good. A movie's graphics can look like complete shit, yet have amazing acting and an amazing flowing story.

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Postby snowballreborn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:52 am

maybe they could not use CGI and just shoot it like the original star wars and just use models/etc. that would be interesting.

The problem about not having great cgi for the evangelions is that it would drive away a large part of the audience that has not seen evangelion. few non-evageek people really want to see a movie made in 21st century with the graphics of an N64 game that's about a bunch of angsty kids unless they're high or pedophiles.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:32 am

If you're not gonna have great high budget graphics whats the freaking point of doing it then? Evangelion has already been done wonderfully in the visual moving image medium (TWICE even) and there's really no reason to do it a third time unless if you want to see the minutia of the world replicated large in eyepopping splendor.

Last thing I think any of us would want is to see them Blood:The Last Vampire: Live Action this series up. Sure you cast the right ethnicity and try to live up to the tone of the original (which in my opinion would need extensive tonal changes but that's a different thread altogether) and all you come out with is a piece of shit.

It's not gonna be R. At least not for the next 5 years. And personally I'd say it will be NEVER. Studios are playing it safe during this recession and we're not going to see any large scale R rated sci-fi films for a while (District 9 is R yes but it's also been shot on a super cheap budget and Cameron has already proclaimed Avatar is PG-13). Watchmen did great business considering BUT it did not light the boxoffice afire and I'm sure some studio execs at WB are thinking "We coulda made $70 million more domestically if we made it PG-13". And the only real R rated sci-fi films to do real amazing business in the past 20 years have been Terminator 2 and Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions. That's it really. Both sequels to R rated predecessors. Studios may upgrade a series rating from PG to PG-13 but not PG-13 to R (the whole AVP thing was a joke to begin with).

If an Eva Live Action happens it won't be the Evangelion I love- which is characters under the smooth & challenging hand of Hideaki Anno- they'll be proxies that carry the name and attitude of their original counterparts but none of the soul. Oh well, it'll be like the manga, a cute little side aspect to the art I fell in love with. And while I think his outlook on the whole Hollywood Eva is a misguided waste of time, space and interest I will say the one thing I agree with Timstuff on is that Evangelion does not need to be R to be good. Any live action franchise will have more in common with the easy to digest first half of the series than the difficult and confronting tone of the second half and EOE (I.E. No Asuka "My mind's been raped" or naked aquarium of Rei's- at least in full on detail- and certainly no giant vaginas with Eyeballs and Shinji spunk). If they do Live Action Eva the best way to go is PG-13.
As a cheap animation Evangelion can be a series about IDEAS & EXPRESSION.
As a live action franchise Evangelion would be a series more about EMOTIONAL ENTERTAINMENT. (I feel Rebuild has already made this whole thing pointless but whatever that's me).

Anywho, seeing as we haven't heard anything yet Transformers 2 still might not be the kick this turd would need to get started. It's still an Anime Adaptation first and live action anime is still a dud. Speed Racer (fun one time view) & Dragonball Evolution were massive financial failures that stung both respective studios. Japanese endeavors like Blood are cute jokes. And Akira is dead.
There's that possible Keanu Reeves Cowboy Bebop film on the horizon but at the moment all it has is a star attached. Hollywood is a business and stars like Reeves are constantly attached to at least a half dozen films at a time and most of these aren't made public until the film officially enters production. The only reason we know about CB is because it's such a nerd staple. Right now all it is is a rough script with a star signed (though news that Fox is cutting budgets and even refused to pay Denzel Washington his asking price for "Unstoppable" is a sign they might want to play it safer- even for them- for the next few years).

Right now the key project that might get Eva seriously kicked off (which despite what Greenfield says otherwise, has not happened yet) is M. Night Shyamalan's The Last Airbender. Hollywood is having joy adapting shitty novelty cartoons (A Hong Kong Fuey movie? Really?) but that's the first serious(?) attempt at adapting a good story based cartoon into the theatrical venue. Too bad despite a decent trailer it looks kind've of retarded ( first pics of key cast in costumes, weak - http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1247503003&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&).

Regardless Live Action or not, it's rating would be PG-13. No question. And the whole "Unrated" Home video edition is not exactly sign of Quality anyone on this website should want associated with Evangelion. It's a marketing gimmick to secure some extra money out of films that got mixed to negative reviews.
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Postby snowballreborn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:13 pm

I think it would be released as a "director's cut" instead of unrated if that kind of thing happened. Or an extended edition. Unrated + Evangelion sounds absolutely horrible.

Perhaps they should just screw live action and get Pixar to do it, which is pretty much impossible.

I pray last airbender bombs. I hate Avatar and M. Night Shyamalan's newer films. The happening is one of the dumbest films I've seen in the last few years. I laughed so hard when those dumb asses flew off the building.

Dragonball Evolution could have done better with a wider release and better marketing. The movie still generally sucked though. Don't quote me on this, but I also seem to remember that it wasn't even that big of a hit in Japan either.

Being that ADV is bankrupt, despite their comments, the movie will not happen for a long time as long as they are the ones creating it.
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Postby Timstuff » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:50 pm

snowballreborn wrote:Perhaps they should just screw live action and get Pixar to do it, which is pretty much impossible.


I think that the people who say things like "ah screw it, just use CG for the characters" don't quite get animation. Evangelion is already getting a set of animated movies, so why make another set of animated movies done in a slightly different style? What's the point, other than to have a "more realistic style?" If they're going to do a western remake of Evangelion, they have to go all the way and do it in live action with top-notch special effects, or else they might as well not even bother. CG is not the silver bullet for making adaptations, and even Pixar is now moving into live action with John Carter: Princess of Mars because they decided that CG puppets weren't effective for what they want to do.
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Postby snowballreborn » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:03 am

snowballreborn wrote:Perhaps they should just screw live action and get Pixar to do it

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:08 am

snowballreborn wrote:
snowballreborn wrote:Perhaps they should just screw live action and get Pixar to do it

Image

Yeah, PIXAR makes AMAZING CGI movies, but their stronghold is definitely in a different method of storytelling.
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