Is Evangelion Flawed?

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Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

kthxbai


Huh? What is that supposed to mean?

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:09 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

OK.
Thanks.
BYE.
Only on the internet....

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:10 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

@Seele08 & DatDude:

I still don't understand why you two -- among others -- embrace this view of NGE. Why do you say the depth isn't there? Considering the sheer level of detail in the show, what is the specific logic behind this determination? And why is NGE unsolveable, if the director himself said that it CAN be solved?

Also, what is "It's just a cartoon" supposed to mean? Animation is an audiovisual medium that can be used to tell a story, and it is the one that Anno chose to tell his.

You are allowed your opinions, of course, but would it be possible to provide systematic and logical bases for these arguments, as opposed to brief statements to the effect, "It's just so!"?

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:12 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

Seele08 wrote:Huh? What is that supposed to mean?


It's a nice way of saying, "If you don't like it, GTFO."

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:12 GMT

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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

Reichu wrote:...is there some reason why NGE shouldn't eventually make sense?
Certainly not 100%.

You know my opinion, I feel that Evangelion is a fundamentally incomprehensible thing. That is my opinion, I'm sticking to it, and it's not something that arguing over will ever change, and the argument wouldn't do this forum any good.

Reichu wrote:I still don't understand why you two -- among others -- embrace this view of NGE. Why do you say the depth isn't there? Considering the sheer level of detail in the show, what is the specific logic behind this determination? And why is NGE unsolveable, if the director himself said that it CAN be solved?
Evangelion is the reason why we have the term "mental masturbation".

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:13 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

Reichu wrote:I still don't understand why you two -- among others -- embrace this view of NGE. Why do you say the depth isn't there? Considering the sheer level of detail in the show, what is the specific logic behind this determination?

Don't know if I was being refered too as well, but k...
I've noticed shows with lots of background/ history/detail (like UC Gundam) tend to expel more of said details as part of the entertaiment process then keep them less then obvious. Eva "puts out" (ha) a lot of many things, but keeps others hidden.
And why is NGE unsolveable, if the director himself said that it CAN be solved?

Given the state of shift in atitudes Anno seems to go through, I personally am not ENTIRELY sure if he means it. At least he understands that people DO want to figure his work out.
Baseless assumption? Not so sure. Eh, not bothering me.
Like I said, discovery is relative.
Eva Monkey wrote:Evangelion is the reason why we have the term "mental masturbation".

Yep. >.> Artists and their quirks.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:18 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

I agree that NGE has lots of depth, but not every goddamn part of it is important, at the rate these forums are headed, people will be analzying the number of points of articulation in Jet Alone's arms for signifigance. Not everything is symoblical or even important. Somethings in life are really just for the heck of it, and that's something lots of people don't seem to get. I mean the commitee is shown in pretty colored lights. Do those lights have some deep meaning in the country of origin, or their personlities? No, its there to make it look technologicly cool.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:20 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:You know my opinion, I feel that Evangelion is a fundamentally incomprehensible thing. That is my opinion, I'm sticking to it, and it's not something that arguing over will ever change, and the argument wouldn't do this forum any good.


I am mostly curious as the reason for the view, since I really cannot comprehend it. Regardless of whether or not you are open to the possibility of changing your mind, you could at least explain the logic behind it, why you find it "advantageous", why the statements of the crew should be rejected, etc....

Seele08 wrote:I agree that NGE has lots of depth, but not every goddamn part of it is important,


Of course not. It is a case-by-case thing. Sweeping generalizations = Bad.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:21 GMT

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Postby DatDude [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

Top three reasons off the top of my head.

1.)

Anno had no way of know at the start of production if this show would air more then once. If he wanted his work to be understood, he wouldnt write for an audience that would need to go over things this damn much to get " it ".

*hit twin peaks wasn't as bad as some people think eva is.


2.) After a decade I've seen nothing out of others that even comes close to half of what you say. Either you and you fellow are the only americans that come close to getting it, or your looking at things that are not ment to be taken the way you are taking them.

3.) Anno has made nothing else that comes close to the level of subtext that some seem to think is in EVA. Theirs no pattern of it in his other work.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:34 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

I see similarties between Nadia and Eva, productionwise and storywise(well, a bit storywise, as 10,000 leagues Under the Sea is Jules', not Anno's.)
Afterwards, Anno delved into LA.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:37 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

DatDude wrote:After a decade I've seen nothing out of others that even comes close to half of what you say. Either you and you fellow are the only americans that come close to getting it, or your looking at things that are not ment to be taken the way you are taking them.


This stuff is not emerging from some kind of vacuum. My own ideas & intuitions are involved, but they aim to be in strict accordance with interpretational methods that are already known to work. I am also doing a helluva lot of "assembly". Meaning, whether or not it is clear right now, the concepts merely continue to build up from the foundation that the geekery group I've been involved with for YEARS (MDWigs is ultimately the Father, I imagine) has been setting. But if we could leave those controversial ideas out of the fray for now, I would appreciate it. The reasons should be fairly obvious.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 02:53 GMT

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Postby DatDude [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

You asked I was only answering.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 03:03 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

My own ideas & intuitions are involved,


The core of the problem is that these ideas of yours are hard for you to separete from the original materiel I've noticed.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 03:05 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

Reichu wrote:I am mostly curious as the reason for the view, since I really cannot comprehend it.
If Evangelion is a puzzle as Anno suggests, then that would mean it has a solution.

So, if it has a solution, why hasn't anyone solved it yet?

Because the information that is the key to solving it is withheld from us.

Why would that information be withheld?

[insert obvious answer here]

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 03:13 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

Why would that information be withheld?


Well If Zuggy were here he'd say Merkabah Agents did it.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 03:15 GMT

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Postby AsukaxSohryux [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

If all the information is handed to you on a silver platter, were is the fun in solving a puzzle? Of course theres a solution, it just has not been found.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 03:31 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:If Evangelion is a puzzle as Anno suggests, then that would mean it has a solution.

So, if it has a solution, why hasn't anyone solved it yet?


Beats me. Agonizing over the time issue is not a very sound reason to dismiss his statement, though. It is a very defeatist attitude, IMO. I used the phrase "geeky tenacity paying off" earlier for a reason. I'm not even referring to that pesky "mystery souffle" of mine. The history of discussion on this forum, and other work done by various individuals associated with it, shows a decided upwards trend... We've had a lot of success, and I can't see anything obstructing further progress aside from skepticism. It's just a matter of time and finishing what we've started.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 04:03 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:23 pm

DatDude wrote:Top three reasons off the top of my head.

1.)

Anno had no way of know at the start of production if this show would air more then once. If he wanted his work to be understood, he wouldnt write for an audience that would need to go over things this damn much to get " it ".
It is perfectly apparent to me that NGE was made with an eye towards the obsessed fan types who would be literally going over it frame by frame, inasmuch as we have discovered significant 'hidden' clues that appear for ONE MEASLY FRAME...
2.) After a decade I've seen nothing out of others that even comes close to half of what you say. Either you and you fellow are the only americans that come close to getting it, or your looking at things that are not ment to be taken the way you are taking them.
It is simply a matter of getting a feel for how information is put across in the series. If no one else has got as far as we have in deciphering NGE, well, somebody has to be first Image
3.) Anno has made nothing else that comes close to the level of subtext that some seem to think is in EVA. Theirs no pattern of it in his other work.
Um, there are plenty of examples in art, cinema, literature, and music, of artists that reach extraordinary levels of creativity early in their careers, that they never again attain later on. NGE is Anno's magnum opus; I suppose he's managed to get the hyper-otakuism out of his system.

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 04:42 GMT

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Postby seba_boi [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:23 pm

Well, aren't all anime flawed?...

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 04:55 GMT

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Postby DatDude [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:23 pm

What-ever

In the immortal words of Peter Parker

" Stick me with a fork, I'm done. "

Originally posted on: 24-Feb-2006, 05:14 GMT


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