A remake or a sequel?

[magmadiver]

Hey everyone, new here. I was actually looking for a thread like this, because there was something that was bugging me since the end of 2.22. At the end of the movie post credits, when Kaworu basically stops Shinji from beiginning Third Impact by using the Lance, he says something to the effect of "This time Shinji Ikari, I'll be sure to bring you happiness."

From what I have seen in the two movies so far, Kaworu and Shinji never actually met yet, or never had any converstaions like at the end of the series. So why would he promise to make Shinji happy, this time?

I had never really thought much about whether or not Rebuild was a completely different story, a sequal, an alternate timeline or whatever, but this kind of got me wondering. I'm pretty sure it's not enough to base an entire theory off of, and it could just be the result of something I had overlooked when watching the movies, but I was wondering what everyone else thinks. Does Kaworu have knowlege of their meeting in the original series, effectively tieing the Rebuild movies and Series together? Or is it just something that doesn't mean anything?

[symbv]

^ Probably a troll bait planted by Anno.
Personally I would not bet on NME having any link with the original sereis and movies.

[Hyper Shinchan]

^ Probably a troll bait planted by Anno.

It's too easy to dismiss it like that, while other explanations, like SSD's one (Kaworu met Shinji in the past), look excessively complicated to me. Like Magmadiver noticed it's pretty logical to think that Kaworu could have some linking with NGE, or at least I still can't believe in any other explanation.
I just hope that the next movies will clear any doubt because it'd really suck otherwise.
Anyway, welcome magmadiver, you could present yourself here, if you wish to do so.

[Kamon-san]

Kaworu met Shinji in the past

You know, this simple sentence makes me realize how I over-analyze things sometimes. It doesn't necessarily have to be a sequel;

Perhaps the next movie will introduce something new to the plot, like a flashback of Kaworu meeting Shinji when they were younger?

I'll try to find that theory (SSD) on the board, you got me curious.

[symbv]

It's too easy to dismiss it like that, while other explanations, like SSD's one (Kaworu met Shinji in the past), look excessively complicated to me.

I had thought about going through various theories like looping, timespace branching or alternate world with timespace travel, but I decided to say what I think is most likely to me :)

Like Magmadiver noticed it's pretty logical to think that Kaworu could have some linking with NGE, or at least I still can't believe in any other explanation.

I can see how easy and plausible it is to make the link, which makes me think it is a smart idea from Anno and staff to entice interest. Yet I would rather there is no link with NGE/EoE and hope there will be some explanation of his words without linking it back to the original series.

[Hyper Shinchan]

I had thought about going through various theories like looping, timespace branching or alternate world with timespace travel, but I decided to say what I think is most likely to me :)

Which is perfectly fine, I just hope/think that Anno wasn't simply trolling us, since it could be really the case if this matter won't ever receive an explanation.

Yet I would rather there is no link with NGE/EoE and hope there will be some explanation of his words without linking it back to the original series.

Conversely I wouldn't mind if they are somehow linked, we already mentioned recently our positions on this point, actually at this point it sounds like a pretty logical outcome; I wouldn't mind being proved wrong by Anno but I just hope that there'll be a (decent) explanation.
EDIT: Kamon-san, I can't find SSD's post but she (re)mentioned it not a long time ago.
RE-EDIT: She mentioned something here but I wonder if there wasn't a more detailed explanation somewhere.

[Sailor Star Dust]

RE-EDIT: She mentioned something here but I wonder if there wasn't a more detailed explanation somewhere.

Yep, this post. The 2-3 posts afterwards are interesting too.

[symbv]

actually at this point it sounds like a pretty logical outcome; I wouldn't mind being proved wrong by Anno but I just hope that there'll be a (decent) explanation.

Logical but not desirable (to me at least). I would rather NME stands on its own and provides its own message without its being linked to NGE/EoE.

One thing I can accept, though, is that if Anno wants to show us how much he has changed over the many years since he made EoE and wanted to do it in the movies, I can accept he uses NGE/EoE in the NME world.

[Warren Peace]

I like the "Kaworu and Shinji met in (Rebuild's) past" idea even less than the sequel theory. It screws with Shinji's back story, the concept that he's had little meaningful human interaction prior to when we meet him. It's not impossible to pull off, but would be a very difficult.

[symbv]

I like the "Kaworu and Shinji met in (Rebuild's) past" idea even less than the sequel theory. It screws with Shinji's back story, the concept that he's had little meaningful human interaction prior to when we meet him. It's not impossible to pull off, but would be a very difficult.

I have one idea that would fit Kaworu met Shinji in the past that did not mess up Shinji's back story.

SPOILER: Show

Kaworu appeared in Shinji's dream world like an incubus but he could not make him "happy" then and even worse Shinji could not remember anything about his previous encounter with him. Sadly Kaworu went back to his coffin to sulk, until Seele woke him up again to give him a second chance.

[ONIAgent150]

I really, really like the sequel theory. Just because I think it would be cool. After going through the thread I absolutely concede that the "not a sequel" camp seems to have a much stronger case. However, I say: "I can dream."

[Azathoth]

I like the "Kaworu and Shinji met in (Rebuild's) past" idea even less than the sequel theory. It screws with Shinji's back story, the concept that he's had little meaningful human interaction prior to when we meet him.

I had a problem with that too, at first, but ultimately I don't think it matters too much. First of all, Kaworu does not really count as human interaction; second of all, the only important aspect of Shinji's interactions with others prior to the show is that he feels completely isolated in the world. If Kaworu and he were like gay osananajimi waking each other up for school until the week before Rebuild 1.xx kicks off then yeah, that's a problem. But I don't see why it screws with Shinji's backstory to have met this kid before. If anything, that should only heighten his sense of abandonment. Once I had a mother, but then she died suspiciously. Once I had a dad, but then he put me on a train and fucked off. Once I had a friend, but then he flew to the moon and left me behind

[Ornette]

They don't have to have actually met in the past. Just like in NGE, where Kaworu seems to know more about Shinji before they met (and maybe had taken some interest in him) than the other way around, all that really needs to be sufficient is that Kaworu knows some bit of Shinji's past and that he's taken some interest in him, perhaps something that made Shinji unhappy, and perhaps something related to Kaworu referring to Gendo as "Father".

[Hyper Shinchan]

They don't have to have actually met in the past. Just like in NGE, where Kaworu seems to know more about Shinji before they met (and maybe had taken some interest in him) than the other way around

Imo this explanation would be pretty weak on the "this time for sure" part, though.

[Reichu]

There's the theory (already mentioned here, probably) that Shinji and Kaworu both have the souls of Adams, and originally "knew" each other that way. The rest could be the same sort of stalker-ish fixation that perhaps resulted in Kaworu's overfamiliar attitude in NGE.

Speculation starts around here

Hyper: I'd be wary about interpreting Kaworu's words. They seem to be intentionally vague as hell. Japanese language regarding time, situation, etc., is usually very context-sensitive, and context is what's been missing.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Hyper: I'd be wary about interpreting Kaworu's words. They seem to be intentionally vague as hell. Japanese language regarding time, situation, etc., is usually very context-sensitive, and context is what's been missing.

Well, I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure about that interpretation, it just makes more sense to me than anything else and I also wouldn't dislike a similar outcome since I find it very suggestive. We have to be wary about interpreting Kaworu's words but we can't simply ignore them.

[Warren Peace]

I dunno, all this speculation about how it could be done proves what a fine needle it is to thread. Shinji is unaware that he once did something significant, but Kaworu does know. Or Kaworu is a crazy stalker who has been watching Shinji's boring life for some grand reason, thus making that boring life significant, or... ugh. In a way, this road seems messier than the Sequel Theory. Sequel Theory would at least leave "the past" (NGE) in tact, while this has the potential to mess with Shinji's back story in some pretty lame ways. Do we really want flash backs to, I don't know, Kaworu and Shinji in third grade, where Shinji accidentally inspired Kaworu's grand plan? Does that sound like fun? I don't think so.

[Ornette]

Does that sound like fun? I don't think so.

Less fun than somehow trying to explain a temporal loop/time skip/time travel/many worlds/omnipotent being/etc. from TV series + EoE to Rebuild?

[ONIAgent150]

Less fun than somehow trying to explain a temporal loop/time skip/time travel/many worlds/omnipotent being/etc. from TV series + EoE to Rebuild?

But omnipotent beings can be TONS of fun! Just ask Q!

[Ornette]

But omnipotent beings can be TONS of fun! Just ask Q!

Less fun than somehow trying to explain ...