Will 3.0+1.0 Negatively Impact The Legacy of Evangelion?

[KitchenBattle]

Unsurprisingly, the final movie is so far successful. Personally I am loving how it all went (at least from what the leaks say). But dwelling on Japanese threads I'm also noticing that a massive amount of fans are furious, and some moviegoer reviews are adding fuel to the fire. I also noticed folks selling their Evangelion merch on YAJ at junk rates. I think there is an angry petition signed by thousands to change the ending (obviously wont be happening). From what I can tell it's go to do with:

SPOILER: Show

Anno asserting the idea that TV+EoE and NTE are connected, making it impossible to escape back to the classic in case they don't like Rebuild. Also those minor shipping implications.

What are your thoughts on this?

[hui43210]

I have almost herd nothing but universal praise for this movie in Japan. I think the anger you're seeing is from a vocal minority.

As for people not liking NGE solely because of NTE? I don't know what to tell them. It's very easy to like one even if you don't like the other.

[Kid]

Not at all. I always respected Anno as an uncompromising director when it came to NGE.
NTE just further proves he is an uncompromising artist who pours himself onto the page, regardless of what the fans think. NGE to NTE are the works of a true auteur.

I think that NGE discussion is in a perfect little bubble, so fans of the original series can still discuss it to hell and back

[KitchenBattle]

I have almost herd nothing but universal praise for this movie in Japan. I think the anger you're seeing is from a vocal minority.

True true. It's why I only said 'very successful', judging from the box office records. I was initially thinking the same i.e. a vocal minority, but gradually I'm seeing more of that sentiment pop up (dont mean 2ch or 5ch).

As for people not liking NGE solely because of NTE? I don't know what to tell them. It's very easy to like one even if you don't like the other.

Agreed. It shouldn't be that hard to disregard something if you don't like it. I've literally ignored everything after Terminator 2 and Aliens I mean But I guess it's hard for some because the original creator is behind both of them and it will probably be tagged alongside the classic from hereon. That and also the current climate of hype might be making things harder.

Not at all. I always respected Anno as an uncompromising director when it came to NGE.
NTE just further proves he is an uncompromising artist who pours himself onto the page, regardless of what the fans think. NGE to NTE are the works of a true auteur.

I think that NGE discussion is in a perfect little bubble, so fans of the original series can still discuss it to hell and back

I feel the same way. I am also happy for what he said in one of his interviews about establishing certain specific conditions for future Eva projects that will be handled by other creators. I am thinking that those conditions might be similar to what Gundam & Fate franchise authors have kept. Something along the lines of [1] Create a new timeline with new characters, [2] A new timeline with same characters but Anno will supervise so the personalities remain intact, [3] Spiritual continuation with Anno's supervision.

I am hopeful that Eva will have more great things to come in the future.

Please do not double post unless it's either necessary or it's been quite some time after your last post.
-Zusuchan

[FelipeFritschF]

I dunno, most of what I'm seeing is people thinking the movie is a closed loop in a separate continuity. Now, of course the Rebuilds are a thematic, meta, spiritual sequel to NGE/EoE, there is no way they couldn't have been, but that doesn't mean they are linked narratively. It seems to be left sufficiently vague that people aren't quite sure yet (I'd so 70% go for closed loop), so even that is left to the viewer.

As for the movie itself... reception is great right now, but It can easily change over time. EoE is a great example, not to mention interpretations proper also shift over time as people cool down and achieve a consensus. It will also affect how people see things insofar as the franchise goes, so trends will change etc. Mari will probably gain in popularity, but I doubt that will stay on for too long.

[ArtyumR]

the Japanese fans are shitting on it, Japanese Twitter and 2chan are ripping Anno apart and trashing the movie.
5chan is shitting on it right now and 2chan closed Asuka threads until monday.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I really don't think so. The only way the series are really implied to be "connected" is that the characters suffer and eventually find happiness in similar ways. You could absolutely watch NGE without watching NTE-- I think some of the impact of watching NTE is gone if you don't watch NGE, but you asked about the legacy of Evangelion, and I don't see it being tarnished in the least.

Now that all four films are out and we can view each one as a single act in a cohesive whole, I don't really see too many problems. Sure, Q was frustrating when it leaped ahead 14 years and didn't give us any answers, but we get some of those answers later in TuaT, and we'll get even more when the CRC eventually comes out.

It feels like jumping the gun a bit to say a film that's barely been out a week is gong to tarnish the legacy of an entire franchise, tarnish the impression of all the media that came before it. Personally, I loved TuaT and I think it's a wonderful capstone to NTE and the franchise as a whole.

the Japanese fans are shitting on it, Japanese Twitter and 2chan are ripping Anno apart and trashing the movie.
5chan is shitting on it right now and 2chan closed Asuka threads until monday.

And yet merch is selling out at ridiculous rates, review sites are giving it close to a perfect ten, and it's breaking box office records. 5chan and 2chan reflect the biases of their communities, and while I'm not surprised the film isn't universally loved (lol Chadsuke) I think it's a bit inaccurate to say "Japanese fans hate it" so broadly.

[ChaddyManPrime]

I don't think it would have been negative had it not retconned EoE.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I don't think it would have been negative had it not retconned EoE.

It didn't, though. EoE still happened in its own world. NTE happens in its own world as well. Both of them happened, just at different times from one another.

[Pen-Pen02]

This reminds me of the television series. My understanding is that audiences continually asked Anno to make a better ending for the series and EoE was born as a result, so I don't think the "power of the people" should be underestimated. Now, Anno is more famous than before and these complaints may not matter much to him, also the film has barely come out, so it only remains to wait for the passage of time to see if the public ends up accepting this closing of the cycle or not.

[FelipeFritschF]

It's not impossible, but the circumstances surrounding EoTV were extremely different compared to Shin.

[Pen-Pen02]

I don't think it would have been negative had it not retconned EoE.

It didn't, though. EoE still happened in its own world. NTE happens in its own world as well. Both of them happened, just at different times from one another.

Well, the beach scene between Asuka and Shinji is a clear connection. For example, as a fan, if I don't like Rebuild films, well I can always go back to the old EVA and there isn't problem for me, but if these films that I don't like link the story of my preference, changing all this meaning, then i'll not find a refuge in it.

[ChaddyManPrime]

I don't think it would have been negative had it not retconned EoE.

It didn't, though. EoE still happened in its own world. NTE happens in its own world as well. Both of them happened, just at different times from one another.

Brother not what I'm talking about, they used the definitive ending as an epilogue to the entire Asuka and Shinji dynamic as it exists. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the retcon of saying Shinji loved Asuka even all the way back in EoE, we have been told time and time again that Asuka was the only one with feelings.

[ArtyumR]

And yet merch is selling out at ridiculous rates, review sites are giving it close to a perfect ten, and it's breaking box office records. 5chan and 2chan reflect the biases of their communities, and while I'm not surprised the film isn't universally loved (lol Chadsuke) I think it's a bit inaccurate to say "Japanese fans hate it" so broadly.

one of the few reviews you can find on internet. I'll leave you to decide what to make of it
https://73rz3hi5ve6pbfeb27ryqemlvq--not ... a0c462e025

Shin-Evangelion as "Anno's Recovery Story"
What is the story of Shin-Evangelion in a nutshell?

"Shin Evangelion" is the story of Shinji (Anno), who fell into depression after the Near Third Impact (Eva Q), but with the support of the people around him, he recovers and confronts NERV ( old Eva) led by Gendo. In other words, it is a very personal story of Anno's own "recovery". There is no universal theme as there was in the old Eva. The story is simply about Hideaki Anno's personal recovery from depression with the support of everyone, and how he was able to escape the curse of Eva by creating the final version of Eva. That's all the story that unfolds endlessly. To put it another way, it can be said that almost no characters from "Evangelion" appear in this film. Hideaki Anno is telling his own story incessantly through the mouths of the characters of Evangelion. That's what this work is about.

Shinji is The Anno who became depressed after making Eva Q, Asuka Shikinami is The Anno who blames herself for her depression, Gendo is The Anno when he was making the old Eva, and Misato is The Anno as the president of Khara. The characters have lost their autonomy and narrative as characters, and their very existence has been taken over by Hideaki Anno. The last scene is probably the most symbolic. Many of the characters are gathered on the far side of the platform and face the moment of separation. Shinji, who has been "blindfolded" by Mari, moves hand in hand with her to the real world (Ube Shinkawa. Shinji returns to the real world (Ube Shinkawa, Hideaki Anno's hometown).

Yes, Shinji Ikari is represented as the complete alter ego of Hideaki Anno at this point. In other words, the character "Shinji Ikari" does not appear for even a second in this film. This is because his existence has been completely taken over by Anno Hideaki.

[Pluto]

From seeing the movie, talking to Japanese people, reading Japanese reviews, as well as now watching youtube videos of Japanese youtubers giving their reactions, explanations, theories, and connections, I can safely say it's a hit and Japan, people are mostly happy, and understand the message of the ending of the film. Similarly, it's in line with the endings of NGETV and EoE.

Having said that, knowing the message of the endings, certainly there will be people who are going to disagree and not like the film as eva is their escape. Also, it seems that sometimes the loudest voices are only a minority but those voices usually get the most attention. Honestly, I don't think this will hinder the legacy of evangelion and it will give people a lot of things to talk about for a long time (just like the series, Eoe, and NTE).

Of course, I welcome people to form their own opinions and if they didn't like it that's certainly fine as well. I mean, the tagline for the film is: Goodbye all of evangelion

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I'm talking about the retcon of saying Shinji loved Asuka even all the way back in EoE, we have been told time and time again that Asuka was the only one with feelings.

This isn't retconned, though. Unless I've misunderstood something major, this discussion is about the world of NTE.

[Pluto]

From seeing the movie, talking to Japanese people, reading Japanese reviews, as well as now watching youtube videos of Japanese youtubers giving their reactions, explanations, theories, and connections, I can safely say it's a hit and Japan, people are mostly happy, and understand the message of the ending of the film. Similarly, it's in line with the endings of NGETV and EoE.

Having said that, knowing the message of the endings, certainly there will be people who are going to disagree and not like the film as eva is their escape. Also, it seems that sometimes the loudest voices are only a minority but those voices usually get the most attention. Honestly, I don't think this will hinder the legacy of evangelion and it will give people a lot of things to talk about for a long time (just like the series, Eoe, and NTE).

one of the few reviews you can find on internet. I'll leave you to decide what to make of it
https://73rz3hi5ve6pbfeb27ryqemlvq--not ... a0c462e025

Shin-Evangelion as "Anno's Recovery Story"
What is the story of Shin-Evangelion in a nutshell?

Yes, Shinji Ikari is represented as the complete alter ego of Hideaki Anno at this point. In other words, the character "Shinji Ikari" does not appear for even a second in this film. This is because his existence has been completely taken over by Anno Hideaki.

I think this is only true on a meta or thematic level where creative people draw influence on the experience of their lives in their creative works. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone but also not to be taken literally on the canonical level.

Of course, I welcome people to form their own opinions and if they didn't like it that's certainly fine as well. I mean, the tagline for the film is: Goodbye all of evangelion

[Axx°N N.]

Having said that, knowing the message of the endings, certainly there will be people who are going to disagree and not like the film as eva is their escape.

Quite the contrary, the draw for Eva for me has always been that, unlike many other anime, Eva was dealing with adult themes and things that were real.

On the other hand, Shin Eva's ending seems like contrived escapism to me. Anno has written Shinji to be energetic, happy, and excited about inserting himself into society. But when we live in a society that's plagued with a current literal plague, on top of a lot of other problems, I find something a little gut churning about the messaging. What am I supposed to imagine Shinji doing in his new reality? Is he even the kind of person now that wants to effect any kind of meaningful impact on the world, or are we supposed to feel like troubles are over merely because Shinji has decided (been written) to be happy and OK with life? To me it feels like a restricted and closed happiness, or more like a happiness that is only arrived at by turning a blind eye, drawing anything which contradicts it into a corner and gesturing it away through sci-fi/magic mumbo-jumbo, or in the case of our reality just by adopting a kind of talismanic willful optimism.

I struggle to find meaning in that and, in a way, it feels as if it's ironically retreating into less mature territory than ever before. Compare it to EoE's message, which included the nuanced element of, to paraphrase, 'happiness will be reached, but you'll forget important things, perhaps return to old bad habits, only to find your way back to happiness again.' A little bleak, not what anyone wants to hear, but realistic and, compared to anything in Shin Eva, actually instructive.

[FelipeFritschF]

Brother not what I'm talking about, they used the definitive ending as an epilogue to the entire Asuka and Shinji dynamic as it exists. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the retcon of saying Shinji loved Asuka even all the way back in EoE, we have been told time and time again that Asuka was the only one with feelings.

I mean, if that's a retcon, you should be happy about it as Shinji now returns her feelings. But moreover, the actual EoE continuity is untouched. This is just validating their relationship on a meta, thematic level. Yes, it didn't happen now, but there are good reasons for that, mainly the timeskip. Remember how people speculate on their relationship if Shinji had only kissed her back in NGE? It's about the same. That will certainly impact the perception of things in he future, on a franchise level.

And I wondering if I have to agree with the post above. I understand the point Anno is trying to make, thematically, but I do that as a fan of Eva familiar with him and his viewpoints. By itself, it feels contrived, and Mari in particular being the catalyst for this feels unearned, almost bizarre. This is something even the positive reviews are saying. There is already a ANN one mentiong it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review ... me/.170407

However, as strong as the film is overall, it isn't without its drawbacks. Mari draws the short stick when it comes to character development for the pilots—which is odd considering how vital she is to the overall story and its resolution. While nearly every action scene in the film centers around her, she gets no real character arc and the specifics of her past remain shrouded in mystery.

So I dunno, maybe in time this will lead to enough backlash. Even without it, Eva as a franchise continues.

[IsAnnoGodOrATroll]

From all the reviews who've seen it in Japan, I can get why it might be divisive. General reception seems to be positive so far but it hasn't even been a full week since its release, so the reception after two/three weeks will be the actual consensus of the film tbh. Be patient people, let the movie run its course first.

For the others who haven't seen it too, you all theorize/judge a bit too much too fast, even if you've seen images/camrips of it. It's great that you all are discussing it, but there's a lot more empty space between this and that in a camrip and in an actual viewing of the film. Is it devaluing the original series or adding some context to it? Is it a retcon of EOE or is it a meta nod to it? Was the ending escapist because Shinji's world was a new one or was it not because Shinji returned to the old world just without Evangelions? Was Misato's character arc disappointing or did it become a kind-of meta what-if take on her character arc? Why did they do this instead of doing the other? Is NTE a companion/alternate take on things or is it a sequel/prequel/whatever?

So many questions and so many conflicting answers from all the people who've seen it. Just like EOE, this movie will be probably discussed a fuckton when it comes out worldwide.

I think the movie might negatively impact NGE in some ways, and it will positively in other ways. Not sure how yet, even after reading all the spolier/reviews but we'll see.

. Anno has written Shinji to be energetic, happy, and excited about inserting himself into society. But when we live in a society that's plagued with a current literal plague, on top of a lot of other problems, I find something a little gut churning about the messaging. What am I supposed to imagine Shinji doing in his new reality? Is he even the kind of person now that wants to effect any kind of meaningful impact on the world, or are we supposed to feel like troubles are over merely because Shinji has decided (been written to be) happy and OK with life? To me it feels like a restricted and closed happiness, or more like a happiness that is only arrived at by turning a blind eye, drawing anything which contradicts it into a corner and gesturing it away through sci-fi/magic mumbo-jumbo, or in the case of our reality just by adopting a kind of talismanic willful optimism.

I struggle to find meaning in that and, in a way, it feels as if it's ironically retreating into less mature territory than ever before. Compare it to EoE's message, which included the nuanced element of, to paraphrase, 'happiness will be reached, but you'll forget important things, perhaps return to old bad habits, only to find your way back to happiness again.' A little bleak, not what anyone wants to hear, but realistic and, compared to anything in Shin Eva, actually instructive.

I don't think Anno could've predicted the pandemic to change his portrayal of hope when he wrote the script or when the production was underway. I get why you're trying to say and respect that, but the pandemic part is just dumb.