Rei's _______ *LARGE SPOILER*

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Postby UberDirector [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Hey.... I only said the first thing...

Originally posted on: 08-Jan-2004, 19:41 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am



I think the idea of showing the trees as Rei's head tumbles towards the Earth is that they came back first. To a non-thinking life form, the will to survive would be its genetic programming to grow and propagate. In other words, plants and trees wouldn't have an actual decision to make, so they would come back all at once the instant that the anti at-field ceased. The more the life form relies upon instinct rather than reasoning, the sooner it will be reembodied, so the lower animals would come next, and then the more intelligent ones. Humans, the only ones who would have a RATIONAL decision to make would come dead last. (And not all at once.)

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2004, 01:31 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:Shin-seiki: I really, really think you ought to collect all of your screenshot presentations into one place. You've managed to put the right pictures together with the right interpretations (i.e., your commentary) to address a lot of NGE's issues in some very interesting ways. You could easily make a website featuring all of them.
Hey, this forum is my website, so to speak... that is, I think my ideas and interpretations concerning NGE are getting more exposure here, and to a more appreciative audience, than any other option that is readily available.
I'm a complete noob when it comes to putting together a webpage - I really wouldn't even know where to begin...
I was shocked to find out recently though, that old pages are deleted on this forum after a year. I've been here since last April; I'm not happy about the idea that threads that I put a lot of time and effort into (creating and uploading screencaps etc.) getting nudged off the edge of the cliff when the time comes
Interesting... After I posted my last response, I did start thinking about the scene with Rei, Kaworu, and Shinji. Stupidly enough, it was only on one of my more recent viewings of EoE that I really paid any attention to it, and you have effectively determined a reason for its importance. I'm all for changing my viewpoint -- I just have to be logically persuaded. Image
You know, the more I think about it, the more I want your idea that 3I affected human beings only to be true. As Duff has pointed out before, when this subject has come up, the idea that the entire biosphere of the planet has been liquified tends to put a real damper on the long-term survival prospects of Shinji and Asuka and whoever else manages to come back. Even if the bugs and birds and trees come back, the situation would be one of complete chaos; one wonders if people could really live in such a mess...
The whole issue comes down to a few words and images. The idea that all life forms were affected comes from a) the word of Fuyutsuki in Ep21 that Sharp quoted above, and b) Yui's line about all living things having the ability to come back etc, and c) the images I posted above. Fuyutsuki's words and the image of the trees posted above are, I suppose, subject to interpretation (if you have an alternate idea of what the image of the trees referenced above means, I would love to hear it), but Yui's words are really hard to explain away...
I think it's probably more because EoE simply contains SO much information that it is difficult to process it all. That is the case with me, anyway. Sometimes my brain also has difficulty getting to Point B from Point A. I see the image and I know what it is, but I don't know what it's supposed to mean unless it's pointed out to me, and then everything makes sense. Image Hey, we're all wired a little differently.
As I point out again and again, one must look at the mages in NGE to really understand what is going on, because a great deal of the ideas that Anno is putting across are communicated in a purely visual way.
I still have some questions, though.

1) Why are there trees in that screenshot I like to post?
As Duff pointed out, that may just be an oversight
2) It's called the "Human Instrumentality Project" and its goal is to evolve humanity into a single consciousness. Why does all life on Earth get extinquished, then? Is this a part of HIP or merely a necessary consequence?
The latter, I think; I imagine that all living things have an ATF, unless you want to argue that, at some discrete point in the course of human evolution, we suddenly aquired souls, and our bodies became dependant on the ATF to maintain our physical form. (did Australopithicus not have souls but **** habilis did? You see how that kind of reasoning opens up a whole can of worms...)
3) If all of the souls of humanity were collected into the Black Moon, what happened to the souls of everything else? Were they collected into the Black Moon, as well? Did naked Rei appear to cats, penguins, iguanas, clovers, and protozoans and showed them their "ultimate desire" before turning them into Tang? Do all lifeforms even possess "libido" and "destrudo"?
That's an unanswerable question, tho I don't think that Rei appeared to paramecia Image
4) If humans return to their original forms by imagining themselves in their own heart and having the will to live, does the same apply to everything else? Do squirrels and fungus have to first manifest the desire to return to life before they come back?
I think that thewayneiac addressed this point prety well; lower life forms don't have think about it, they just come back

5) If everything is just going to return to the way it was, what was the bloody point of Third Impact?
The point of 3I was what SEELE, and Gendo, respectively, were trying to accomplish; the ultimate outcome, however, was placed in Shinji's hands, thanks to Rei, and so the villains were thwarted...

Originally posted on: 11-Jan-2004, 15:30 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:Fuyutsuki does not, however, tell us WHAT resulted in the "complete extermination of all life right down to microorganisms". Also, the function of the anti-A.T. Field was evidently different in both incidences. At Antarctica, it seems to have been a human construct targeted at Adam:[/url])

The function each time isn't entirely relevant, the effect is. An Anti-AT Field affects all life.

Reichu wrote:2) It's called the "Human Instrumentality Project" and its goal is to evolve humanity into a single consciousness. Why does all life on Earth get extinquished, then? Is this a part of HIP or merely a necessary consequence?

SEELE/Gendo just called it that as they were really only concerned with humans?

Reichu wrote:5) If everything is just going to return to the way it was, what was the bloody point of Third Impact?

Nobody would have had a choice, had Shinji not screwed it up.

Originally posted on: 11-Jan-2004, 15:36 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:The Blue Thunder of the AN Forums will see to it, no doubt.

And its back. Image

Originally posted on: 12-Jan-2004, 22:56 GMT

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Postby NeonProdigy [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

thewayneiac wrote:I think the idea of showing the trees as Rei's head tumbles towards the Earth is that they came back first. To a non-thinking life form, the will to survive would be its genetic programming to grow and propagate. In other words, plants and trees wouldn't have an actual decision to make, so they would come back all at once the instant that the anti at-field ceased. The more the life form relies upon instinct rather than reasoning, the sooner it will be reembodied, so the lower animals would come next, and then the more intelligent ones. Humans, the only ones who would have a RATIONAL decision to make would come dead last. (And not all at once.)


That would make sense.

Originally posted on: 18-Jan-2004, 00:33 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Hmm... It would appear that I haven't replied to this thread yet.

Over at THIS thread, I said

If that had been their intent all along, though, they could've used a name like the "Biota Instrumentality Project" or something.


Dr. Nick replied

I think there are three possible options:
1. Those old grumps of SEELE are talking partially nonsense (hey, they are a freaky apocalyptic cult after all).
2. There's an animation inconsistency in that scene where we see trees still standing after Third Impact.
3. TI affects to humans and animals but not plants, which explains the trees (yeah, right :rolleyesImage.

I'm going to go with number one here.


And Shin-seiki, in turn, replied

I'm going with option 2, myself.


I suppose I'd just rather keep that other thread about Yui-sama and the various questions I posed that no one has responded to yet. Image But, anyway, why do you opt for 2, SS? A little ways back, thewayneiac came up with an IMO rather nice explanation for why the trees are there that doesn't involve any bloopers. (Granted, EoE is full of inconsistencies, but virtually all of these involve EVA-02, the harpies, the harpies' injuries, and GNR's size.)

the wayneiac wrote:I think the idea of showing the trees as Rei's head tumbles towards the Earth is that they came back first. To a non-thinking life form, the will to survive would be its genetic programming to grow and propagate. In other words, plants and trees wouldn't have an actual decision to make, so they would come back all at once the instant that the anti at-field ceased. The more the life form relies upon instinct rather than reasoning, the sooner it will be reembodied, so the lower animals would come next, and then the more intelligent ones. Humans, the only ones who would have a RATIONAL decision to make would come dead last. (And not all at once.)


Niko-san, while I agree that the grumpy old men are oftentimes obtuse at best, I suppose there's no real reason that they were pulling stuff out of their arses when they said that ALL life would be complemented. Regardless, if they knew that all along, it's still nicely inconsistent with the title of their little "project".

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2004, 08:51 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:Niko-san, while I agree that the grumpy old men are oftentimes obtuse at best, I suppose there's no real reason that they were pulling stuff out of their arses when they said that ALL life would be complemented. Regardless, if they knew that all along, it's still nicely inconsistent with the title of their little "project".

Lordy, how did I miss this thread completely? -o-; IMO thewayneiac's theory is extremely good, it ties up most of these loose ends in a very nice manner. It would have been an awesome animated sequence, rainforests of Amazon suddenly popping into Tang and a couple of moments later popping back... But that might have been a bit too comedic scene to go with the rest of the stuff in the movie. This "artistic" return of the trees -scene works better mood-wise.

(Return of the trees, sounds like a some kind of b-movie, doesn't it? :lolImage

And of course Japan took a helluva beating before things started popping, so that scene might also refer to life returning to the disaster area in a normal slow way.
Shin-seiki wrote:Given the fact that there is every reason to suppose that Shinji was alone on that beach for a substantial period of time before Asuka turned up, one does wonder just what he's been living off of...

Reichu wrote:Anything that's lying around, I suppose. Unless you believe that the Human Instrumentality Project somehow affected things other than humans (which seems terribly dubious to me), there ought to be plenty of Japanese micro-fauna scuttling about. I don't have very high hopes for the aquatic life, though.

You know, if I had to survive in a post-apocalyptic world, before I'd start to eat rats and such I'd probably loot empty houses and stores for canned food and Jolt-cola. Image (You learn these things by playing Fallout, BTW.)
Let's take a wild guess and say that Shinji and Asuka returned a week before the mass-returning starts: I think that by the end of that week's period they have invaded a huge mansion all by themselves and stashed it full of tuna cans, expensive clothes, SDAT-players and pink Ferraris. And if the owners of the house were never to return, well, there's a happy ever-after and a perverse fan-fic idea for you! Image

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 22:00 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:I suppose I'd just rather keep that other thread about Yui-sama and the various questions I posed that no one has responded to yet. Image But, anyway, why do you opt for 2, SS? A little ways back, thewayneiac came up with an IMO rather nice explanation for why the trees are there that doesn't involve any bloopers. (Granted, EoE is full of inconsistencies, but virtually all of these involve EVA-02, the harpies, the harpies' injuries, and GNR's size.)
I went with option 2 because it was was the best of the three offered in that post, if thewayniac's idea had been included, I would have gone with that, probably...

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2004, 13:27 GMT

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Postby Kagerou [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

I love analyzing this sort of stuff, especially Evangelion. (I've finally seen both movies now, now I can't be spoiled...all FAQ and threads are open to me now, gwahaha.)

I recently stumbled upon a site with a collection of all the hate mail which was flashed during the ending of The End, translated and in english, and it sort of makes me sad, that some fans do things like this, no respect...

There is some positive things on that site too though, Image

I even saw a comment about how parts of The End were just a bit up yours from Anno to the fans.

Also, I don't get the meaning behind the live film towards the end, I read somewhere that it was part of more that was planned, and those three girls standing were Misato, Rei and Asuka.

I'm rambling, forgive.

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 01:36 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Kagerou wrote:I even saw a comment about how parts of The End were just a bit up yours from Anno to the fans.


Uh-oh, better not go repeating that myth too much around here... Shin-seiki and the others will rip you apart like a pack of hyenas eating a gnu.

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 01:53 GMT

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Postby Kagerou [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Well, it makes some sense in regard to them flashing the hatemail...


I'll just go over in this corner, and be quiet.

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 01:55 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Reichu wrote:Uh-oh, better not go repeating that myth too much around here... Shin-seiki and the others will rip you apart like a pack of hyenas eating a gnu.
Image Geez... I wish you all would quit threatening to sic me on the noobs! I'm actually, like Underdog, both humble and lovable :shy:
Kagerou: If EoE is to be taken as Anno's one-finger salute to anyone, it would probably be Yuuko Miyamura, Asuka's VA.

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 12:29 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Reichu wrote:Uh-oh, better not go repeating that myth too much around here... Shin-seiki and the others will rip you apart like a pack of hyenas eating a gnu.

Hey, although the general consensus is that EoE as a whole isn't a "one finger salute" to anyone, that doesn't rule out the possibility that some parts of it are. I don't think the hate-mail sequence has anything to do with the story of the movie itself, although one can draw interesting parallels between it and Shinji's "I hate you" -phonecalls sequence in... damn it, in which episode was it...

Agh, never mind.

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 12:49 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Dr. Nick wrote:I don't think the hate-mail sequence has anything to do with the story of the movie itself, although one can draw interesting parallels between it and Shinji's "I hate you" -phonecalls sequence in... damn it, in which episode was it...


Episode #26. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 15:13 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Hey, look, another classic! :bump:

Originally posted on: 13-Jan-2005, 16:25 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Shin-seiki wrote:Image Geez... I wish you all would quit threatening to sic me on the noobs! I'm actually, like Underdog, both humble and lovable :shy:
Kagerou: If EoE is to be taken as Anno's one-finger salute to anyone, it would probably be Yuuko Miyamura, Asuka's VA.


As to your loveableness, I wouldn't care to pass a comment at this time, but there is a certain calm brutality about the way in which you can dissect factual errors, faulty logic, lack of attention to detail and other such failiures. I should know. I've been on the recieving end a time or two. Image

Not like I mind, though. It's only ever been when I was wrong, and you sure as heck showed me some new ways of looking at the series. I'm just going to make darn sure that if I ever post a "big theory" or even a 'big assertion" again, that it it's suitably rigorous before I go ahead and post. The last thread I started rather nicely served the purpose of reversing my entire viewpoint on the issue that I posted about. Largely due, I have to say, to your posts in that thread. I've never looked at the series the same since.

Originally posted on: 13-Jan-2005, 22:00 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Reichu wrote:humanity was the only thing affected. (The TREES! Remember the TREES!)


Updating the falling head link (because cool URIs sometimes change )

The splash! Remember the splash!

Originally posted on: 14-Jan-2005, 19:54 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

"URI"? I've only heard of URLs...

Originally posted on: 15-Jan-2005, 08:11 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:25 am

Reichu wrote:"URI"? I've only heard of URLs...


Uniform Resource Identifier (RFC 2396); an extension of the original URL (Locator - RFC 1738).

The gist of the difference is that in a URL, the format is "protocol+server+where to look on the server", but a URI is "protocol+server+enough to tell the server what is being looked for"

Originally posted on: 15-Jan-2005, 08:33 GMT


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