Fanservice in Evangelion: Good or Bad?

[backseatjesus]

I'm sure Kaji will rape Shinji in 3.0

[Mr. Tines]

Can you imagine a giant naked Kaworu? Full frontal?

Cue Dr. Manhattan...

Just so long as it's not the Giant Naked Gendo from that particular piece of fan art...

[Halicat]

Can you imagine a giant naked Kaworu? Full frontal?

There would be much rejoicing from the girlies as much as there would be despair. CUE INTIMATE KAWORU SHOT:

Webuild

SPOILER: Show

And I don't think they've done a shot like this for a female, though maybe I just can't remember any.

Just so long as it's not the Giant Naked Gendo from that particular piece of fan art...

I feel like I want to know when I don't want to know...

[supershinjiasukashipper]

Throughout the entire Evangelion franchise (and many anime franchises for that matter) there is "fanservice," or gratuitous sexual imagery and innuendo, typically focused on the female characters. At times, particularly in Rebuild so far, I've found the inclusion of most of this stuff to be pretty tasteless and potentially damaging to the image of what is truly a masterful work of art.

I would like for as many people as humanly possible to be able to experience Evangelion, but I fear most people unaccustomed to anime norms wouldn't want to sit through the continuous hyper low-angle boob and ass shots of girls in their early teens, and might even interpret it as sexism and depraved perversion.

I get that it's supposed to be funny/sexy, but I, personally, usually only find it to be extremely clever (when Asuka first meets Pen Pen in 2.0), mildly distracting, and unsuitable for such an otherwise distinguished work. Ultimately, I think Evangelion would have a better chance at gaining the mainstream recognition and acceptance it deserves outside of Japan if there was little-to-no fanservice.

How do you feel about the fanservice in Evangelion?

The fan service is for perverts and kids going through puberty, it draws a demographic in short. I think it helps the franchise, just not the franchises image.

[Halicat]

I think it helps the franchise, just not the franchises image.

Especially when you have Resin kits of a naked Rei in porno positions

[Thanatos]

Yeah, I don't think of sex scenes as fanservice.

In general I don't consider sex scenes fanservice, but in certain types of horror films it most certainly is: Freddy, Jason, Halloween, etc.

[supershinjiasukashipper]

Especially when you have Resin kits of a naked Rei in porno positions

Must buy! Anyhow besides my slight perversion, that is an example, such things bring in revenue.

[Halicat]

In general I don't consider sex scenes fanservice, but in certain types of horror films it most certainly is: Freddy, Jason, Halloween, etc.

And those kind of double up into even more 'fanservice', thanks to the horror cliché of any sexual participants being slaughtered in horrid ways.

[Eva Yojimbo]

And an actual advantage to this today would be if you are very successful, then you can reach a point where you can do what you like; i.e, finance your own film, start your own label and so on.

True, and it's easier than ever today to make movies. Small digital camcorders and programs like Final Cut has seen to that. So it's much easier for amateurs to go out and make a $7k film (*cough*Primer*cough*) and turn it into a gargantuan (by budget comparison) success. But I'm always reminded of what David Lynch said in that both he and Spielberg make the films they want to make, but anyone aware of the disparity in box office between them will see the irony in that statement.

And you raise a good point about those limitations or negative aspects being adopted and actually strengthening the work. I mean look at Eva, a lot of the greatness of that series comes from Anno's dissatisfaction with the anime industry, the fans, and himself.

True, and Anno also works masterfully in the limiting form of the TV mini-series by structuring the arc around self-contained episodes, breaks, etc. And sometimes even censorship can aid in creativity by making artists ponder how they can get sexy without actually showing sex and get violent without going too far with it either.

Yeah, I don't think of sex scenes as fanservice, just a "where's the fast forward to get past this annoying padding";

You think all sex scenes are padding?

[Mr. Tines]

You think all sex scenes are padding?

Well, I can't offhand think of a book or film which I've consumed that would be the worse for a line of asterisks/fade-to-black elision.

I was gladdened to realise that the obligatory sex scene that had been getting in the way seemed to vanish from SF novels at about the time the likely readership would have cottoned on that the internet was a better source of porn.

The same with ecchi in anime -- the "we interrupt this programme to bring you PANTSU!" style can be lost without detriment to the rest of the show, no matter where on the spectrum from Full Metal Panic to Najica Blitz Tactics it falls (not that there's much left if you take the panty shots from the latter).

It is possible to do that sort of thing is an -- well, unobtrusive is possible not always the word -- fashion, as the equivalent spectrum from RideBack to Strike Witches shows; but Gainaxing is much easier to fit in in parallel rather than in series with the action (even if taken to the levels seen in the BurnUp/Whatever franchise).

Tying back to the original topic, cuts like the VulvaVision shot of Asuka in 2.x seems to fall on the bad spectrum, by all reports.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Well, I can't offhand think of a book or film which I've consumed that would be the worse for a line of asterisks/fade-to-black elision... It is possible to do that sort of thing is an -- well, unobtrusive is possible not always the word -- fashion,

I guess this notion just seems completely odd to me since I'm a fan of erotica to begin with. I tend to admire those that can capture the sensuality of sex whether that's through subtle suggestion (Pandora's Box is incredibly sexual for a silent film with no nudity and sex) or actual sex scenes. I mean, Mulholland Drive without its climactic sex scene is a much, much lesser film, I think, because there's so much complex psychological and emotional substance tied to the act itself. Likewise there are films like Jan Dara that captures, for lack of a better term, the aesthetics of sex so beautifully that I couldn't imagine it being without them. And while I haven't seen it there are other highly respected films like Nagisa Oshima's In the Realm of the Senses... I'm sure I could think of better/more obvious examples if this hadn't come up suddenly.

[supershinjiasukashipper]

I'm sure Kaji will rape Shinji in 3.0

And im sure Asuka will chop his genitals off before that happens.

(we now return you to your regularly scheduled topic free of the ravings of a crazy shipper. )

[Allemann]

A sex scene can be used as a character development or a plot mover. It shows that someone has entered a serious relationship, just as some things are only said inside a bedroom.

[Eric Blair]

Like Misato and Kaji.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

^exactly, good example of character development

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Like Misato and Kaji.

One of the few, yes.

[Eric Blair]

The other one that comes to my mind is

SPOILER: Show

Melissa Mao and Kurtz Weber in Full Metal Panic Light novel "Semaru; Nick of Time".

[oOoOoOo]

I'm reading the Tale of Genji right now, and if it wasn't for the footnotes I'd often miss when people had sex. Much like you can effectively have somebody die off-screen (think about how scary horror movies are when you don't see the monster), you can effectively have a sex scene off-screen. I think showing things makes the situation more intense, though.

I like sex scenes best when they're cathartic, or when there is conflict. If the scene is just to show how well two characters get along, there's no tension, and probably no story reason or character development reason. It is like having conversations with no tension. I hardly have a master list beside my computer, but I'm pretty sure most of the conversations in Evangelion involve some level of conflict/tension between the speakers.

A sex scene can be used as a character development or a plot mover. It shows that someone has entered a serious relationship, just as some things are only said inside a bedroom.

Like Misato and Kaji.

Eric Blair-san wins at troll detection. Thank you for the delicious LOL.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I'm reading the Tale of Genji right now, and if it wasn't for the footnotes I'd often miss when people had sex. Much like you can effectively have somebody die off-screen you can effectively have a sex scene off-screen. I think showing things makes the situation more intense, though.

Honestly, I think it just depends on the specific context. A lot of older films, for example, could be extremely sexy and do a lot economically without ever showing sex, and a lot of modern films (even "erotica" and sexploitation) can get explicit and be un-sexy and add absolutely nothing to the work. Of course, the opposite can be true too, it just so depends on the specific work. I can certainly think of films which would be much lesser if their sex scenes were cut (Don't Look Now is a recent one I saw that that would apply to).

[oOoOoOo]

Mm, you're right Yojimbo-kun. I was thinking about the writing, I guess. Like, even if there's no "purpose" to a sex scene, with the right style it can visually convey something that wasn't conveyed by the script.