Super Solenoid = Humongous Magnet

[DirtyHamster]

Ok, so I'm browsing through the english dictionary as I always do, and I came across...
Solenoid: A coil of wire magnetized by passing a current through it.

So, if my brain serves me correctly, an S2 engine is a humongous magnet.
Hmmm......

......*trying to look at brain* Stupid Brain. I'll finish this without your help.

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[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Not strictly correct.

Though its meaning as a magnet is the most familar usage nowadays, a solenoid is actually any device or engine that converts energy into momentum, both linear and angular momentum, .i.e movement.

Solenoids include eletromagnets, steam engines, petrol pistons, stirling engines, turbines of any kind, and naturally muscle tissue. So super solenoids are some kind of super energy to momentum conversion device. What kind of energy they convert is anyones best guess. I might guess that they use the energy of mass, but I'm only guessing.

Also, the Eva's and angels appeared to be capable of more than simple momentum generation of AT-Fields, levitation, etc. The whole Dirac space and naturally limb restoration, synching, etc do not seem to involve simple momentum generation. Perhaps the S^2 organs only act as a general energy converter, which generates some form of momentum, which is in turn used to generate perhaps electrical energy that would power other organs responsible for various fantastic abilities. Nerv bypassed the organ and supply electricity to the Eva, which powered it's various abilities. So it would seem AT-Field generation is not done by the S^2 organ iteself.

I would say then that it is not the S^2 organ that is responsible for the Angels' fantasic abilities. These must be granted by other structures within it. Rather the S^2 organs act as general purpose engines, which somehow supply electrical, or other, energy to the Angels and Eva's.

P.S.
Today's fun fact: Prior to James Watts invention of the steam engine, a solenoid capable of converting energy into angular momentum(spinning movement) was widely regarded as an impossibility.

[Mr. Tines]

Actually, Anno managed to miss a neat trick in defining the second S in S^2 as Solenoid, when he could have increased the rubber-science level by having it be super-symmetric i.e. latching on to one of the strands of Grand Unification.

That might also give a way of explaining all the other peculiar bits of physical phenomena recorded e.g. http://www.evamonkey.com/commentary/epi ... cene5.html cut 142.

[Cogboy]

maybe it taps into zero point energy?

[Mr. Tines]

maybe it taps into zero point energy?

That's my guess - as I put it elsewhere, Asuka's summary of the situation at the end of "Rebirth"...

Oh, wonderful. Nine units with super-symmetry engines harvesting power from the quantum zero point fluctuations. And I'm on batteries that don't keep on running and running.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

I always used to refer to it as the filament for the EVA's core in which the soul would be housed (i,e: Super Solenoid, and yeah, it isn't spelt exactly the same.....). Still, we do know that it converts energy for the EVA to run with an unlimited supply of power (goodbye to umbilical cords)...

[Dave]

Truly a veritable "fruit of life". Access to infinite energy (in any form really, converting isn't all too difficult for living matter) is any organism's dream. It's also a nice fail-safe :

"But... that angel can't do that! It breaks the laws of physics!"
Anno : "S2"
"Ahh... so that explains it."

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I always used to refer to it as the filament for the EVA's core in which the soul would be housed (i,e: Super Solenoid, and yeah, it isn't spelt exactly the same.....). Still, we do know that it converts energy for the EVA to run with an unlimited supply of power (goodbye to umbilical cords)...

Don't forget that for most of the series, the Eva's have no S^2 organs.

The general consenus is that the Ev'a core contains the soul, and that the S^2 organ is a seperate structure within the Eva. This would follow logically from the absense of the Eva's S^2s. However, for some reason, before I gave it thought, I somehow associated the S^2 with the core. I don't really know why.

[DirtyHamster]

Could the S^2 organ have something to do with magnetic fields?
The S^2 organ/engine could utilize magnetic energy which it then converts into whatever other type of energy it needs.

I would say then that it is not the S^2 organ that is responsible for the Angels' fantasic abilities. These must be granted by other structures within it. Rather the S^2 organs act as general purpose engines, which somehow supply electrical, or other, energy to the Angels and Eva's.

We know that the Angels & Evas generate magnetic fields naturally, after all the reason Adam exploded was because they couldn't limit his magnetic field.

So if you have an engine, which needs magnetic energy to work, strapped onto something which generates a magnetic field naturally,
you've duped your way into manufacturing boundless energy.

Now this is just a total guess, so if anyine finds something wrong with my theory, please, dig in!

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Could the S^2 organ have something to do with magnetic fields?
The S^2 organ/engine could utilize magnetic energy which it then converts into whatever other type of energy it needs.

I would say that the S^2 converts either mass to energy, or some kind of quantum effect to energy. I would say that it converts its fuel supply, mass/zero-point energy, to electrical energy, which is used to power the other organs.

We know that the Angels & Evas generate magnetic fields naturally,

They might. But if you're referring to the AT-Field barriers, this is probably not a magnetic effect. It is more likely to be a warping of space, which the Eva's/Angels used to defend themselves. Or perhaps the properties of space are changed in some way. Might the field be a changing of fundamental constants or properites of the space there?

So if you have an engine, which needs magnetic energy to work, strapped onto something which generates a magnetic field naturally,
you've duped your way into manufacturing boundless energy.

You've just described a perpetual motion machine. Anime Physics considerations aside, I don't reckon this is the case. I would think that the angel's are still limited in what they can do, based on the size of their fuel supply, likely mass or quantum based. In short, they may appear to have limitless potential, but there is a limit there somewhere.

[DirtyHamster]

You've just described a perpetual motion machine. Anime Physics considerations aside, I don't reckon this is the case. I would think that the angel's are still limited in what they can do, based on the size of their fuel supply, likely mass or quantum based. In short, they may appear to have limitless potential, but there is a limit there somewhere.

In that case could they be using the earths magnetic field, seeing as how all the angels where only seen within this field.

EDIT...

Could someone fill me in on "zero point energy"? :? . I think I know what it is but knowing me I'm more than likely wrong.

[DirtyHamster]

:cry: no one wants to help me :cry:

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

In that case could they be using the earths magnetic field, seeing as how all the angels where only seen within this field.

They probably aren't using the earth;s magnetic field. It's a pretty poor energy source.

Could someone fill me in on "zero point energy"? :? . I think I know what it is but knowing me I'm more than likely wrong.

As far as I have gathered, according to quantum mechanics you cannot predict the position and velocity of a particle exactly. This is further extended to say that a particles cannot have a definite position and velocity at all.

Now apply this to the case of a particle with zero velocity. We know its velocity is zero, but since it isn't moving, we now know its position as well. This goes against the trend of thought in quantum mechanics so the concept of zero point energy is introduced. In other words, there is some kind of movement of energy even when the particle is a rest, or something.

[DirtyHamster]

Well in that case shouldn't zero point energy be theoretically impossible in accordance with quantum mechanics?

[Mr. Tines]

Well in that case shouldn't zero point energy be theoretically impossible in accordance with quantum mechanics?

It is actually possible to extract energy from the quantum vacuum; e.g. through the Casimir effect (as two conductive plates approach one another, only wavelengths that are an exact fraction of their separation can exist in the sea of virtual photons that bubble into and out of existence in the gap between them. This reduces the energy density of the vacuum, compared with the outside of the plates and so they are attracted to one another. That attraction can be used to do work.

Unfortunately, it's not the perpetual motion free energy source that one would like it to be, since it takes the same amount of energy to separate the plates once again.

[Reichu]

Actually, there seems to be a very good chance that the S^2 is stored inside the core. Aside from screenshots I don't feel like harvesting at the moment, in #20 there is a lingering shot in #20 of Yui-sama's exposed core, followed by the comment about how the S^2 is inactive. That alone doesn't mean a thing, but just hold onto the notion in the meantime.

Referring to the magnetic field crap, in NGE there is frequent technobabble involving magnetic fields. Perhaps you should skim through the scripts of the episodes currently on the commentary page; I'm sure you'd be able to make more sense of this dialogue than I.

[DirtyHamster]

Actually, there seems to be a very good chance that the S^2 is stored inside the core.

What about when they recovered Samshel's core. They should have discovered it then.

[Reichu]

What about when they recovered Samshel's core. They should have discovered it then.

Where do you think the S^2 they tried putting into EVA-04 came from?

[DirtyHamster]

What about when they recovered Samshel's core. They should have discovered it then.

Where do you think the S^2 they tried putting into EVA-04 came from?

Woopsie :oops:
Never thought of that.

...Hey. Wait a sec. Wasn't Samshel's core damaged? Also how do you know that they didn't crack the riddle themselves and engineered their own S^2 engine?
And where did they pull the S^2 engines out off for the MP units? Somehow I don't think it was their ass.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

So maybe it is in the core. Otherwise why would they be hauling the core off as a sample in episode #05? As a simple core sample maybe, but this seems their one and only chance to get their hands on an S^2 sample, given that the rest of the angel's S^2 engines were likely fried or disintegrated.

Hmmm. Thread time.