Rei backup and restore

[Baz]

This is something that has always confused me about the Rei III episode. She says that she cannot remember anything about her fight with Armisael, but she seems to remember Shinji, and by EOE she has developed a strong (and, in my opinion, unexplained) attachment to him.

So my question is, why did she lose some memories but retain others? Here are some explanations that I've been able to come up with:

1) She regularly does a memory back-up to the dummy system. We see her in the dummy system as early as Ep. 15, and we know that the main components of the dummy system are her clones and a maji-like computer that (I'm guessing) can duplicate her thought processes well enough to even fool Yui for a while. So, Rei III's memories could have been restored from Rei II's last visit to the dummy system.

2) She retains "soul memories", but has some sort of "soul amnesia" about the battle, perhaps because it hadn't made its way into long-term memory. Unfortunately we don't have much idea of what kind of memories souls maintain, which brings me to the next:

3) Her "soul" is only capable of remembering emotions, attachments, and impressions, but not details. The evidence is fairly strong here on several counts. When she picks up Gendo's glasses and starts crying, she says "This should be the first time, but I feel like this isn't the first time. Why am I crying?". This also fits with the psychoanalysis theme of NGE. The "soul memories" are similar to our own early, unremembered childhood, even going as far back as our time in the womb. This "soul memory" stuff also has a bearing on what the Eva's remember about their previous lives.

4) Final theory: Ritsuko somehow restored Rei III's memories from kentucky-fried Rei II, but the memories of the final battle could not be restored or Gendo didn't want them restored. This theory is pure conjecture on my part, but if anyone has evidence for it, I'd like to hear.

What do people think? Are there any specific instances in Ep 24 or EOE where Rei recalls something that is more than just an "impression"? Unfortunately we don't get much dialog from her at this point in the show.

[Reichu]

Unfortunately we don't have much idea of what kind of memories souls maintain

In episode 20, we get a pretty good idea, owing to the fact that Shinji makes his way to Eva-01's core and is able to generate a new body entirely from the LCL inside it. This means that souls retain a pretty ridiculous record of one's physical body. Unclear how much memory loss Shinji suffered, but it doesn't seem to be in any way comparable to what Rei 3's suffered. Also note that while he's a "naked soul", he remembers more than enough to thoroughly angst over his life and existence.

Similar deal with all the characters in Third Impact/HIP.

[Baz]

Unfortunately this leaves us with the question of why Rei III lost any memories at all, unless it was simply a matter of short-term memory loss and/or trauma. Or the whole memory-loss thing could have been introduced by Anno to make Rei III's introduction more effective, since the scene in the hospital with Shinji and the following scene with Gendo's glasses are pretty cool IMHO.

I don't agree with you about Ep. 20, the reconstruction of the body seems to be Yui fulfilling Shinji's desires rather than something that Shinji does on his own. Also it doesn't contradict what I said, since a soul would have a very strong impression of the body it had resided in and that would certainly be one of the last things it would forget. I think you misunderstood what I meant by "details". I was specifically referring to details of events.

However, you make a very strong point wrt instrumentality. EoTV 25 in particular shows the souls of the characters having very clear recall of events in their life.

[Axell]

perhaps they were not able to retrieve all of her soul after she self destructed. she was turned into fried chicken

[Baz]

perhaps they were not able to retrieve all of her soul after she self destructed. she was turned into fried chicken

Too bad we can't find someone with a PhD in metabiology to explain the soul retrieval process to us. But seriously, I don't buy that because it would imply that destruction of the body == destruction of the soul. Unless you mean that soul retrieval requires the mental circuits to still be partially intact (kind of like brain diving in Ghost in the Shell). But for me, that doesn't fit with naked souls and instrumentatity i.e. what Reichu said.

[NemZ]

Being flash-fried is a reasonable cause of mental trauma to induce such memory lapses on it's own. Dying in -any- manner might do it, but the literal 'die in a fire' she experiences can't have helped.

Also the whole 'reintegrating long-separated parts of the soul' thing is going to take a period of adjustment.

[Grand Duke of Yashima]

I'm working on a FF where Rei III's regaining of memories (or lack thereof) are a critical part of the story. My solution to the problem was Baz's Theory #1 (Backup).

It would make sense as part of the Dummy Plug System to make a complete map of Rei's brain, including everything stored as memory. But then if you're switching bodies and you upload this thing into a new body, but same old soul, there might be some initial "interface" problems. The analogy of taking out your hard drive and re-installing it into a new computer comes to mind.

The harder part to reconcile was that Rei III was a combination of personalities, including not only Rei II, but also Chibi-Rei (Rei I). Ritsuko would have a backup of Rei II, but she's not going to upload Rei I into the new Rei III (and she wouldn't do it even if they did have a copy of the memory).

[Legendary]

Since memories are proven to be attached to souls, isn't it possible that metabiology found a way to figure out when memories were created, and found a way to remove them? In this case, it's possible that Rei's memories of angelic contact were removed to prevent the threat of angelic contamination?

Just a thought, although it's highly fanon.

[AuraTwilight]

I always assumed her memories were modified deliberately by NERV so that she didn't realize "Hey, I keep dying a lot and don't seem to be human."

[rberlin]

You have accident prone children you get them a helmet you have death prone children you get clones.

[Baz]

Being flash-fried is a reasonable cause of mental trauma to induce such memory lapses on it's own. Dying in -any- manner might do it, but the literal 'die in a fire' she experiences can't have helped.

Yeah. Given the lack of good evidence for more interesting scenarios this seems the most reasonable. Darnit, though, I was hoping that it would be something a little deeper than this.

Since memories are proven to be attached to souls, isn't it possible that metabiology found a way to figure out when memories were created, and found a way to remove them? In this case, it's possible that Rei's memories of angelic contact were removed to prevent the threat of angelic contamination?

No, because we don't see them removing Asuka's memories after her mental contamination.

I always assumed her memories were modified deliberately by NERV so that she didn't realize "Hey, I keep dying a lot and don't seem to be human."

If so, they failed badly because she figured it out pretty quick.

[Legendary]

No, because we don't see them removing Asuka's memories after her mental contamination.

I meant specifically in relation to Rei because she'd died and her soul was easily malleable. Removing Asuka's soul to manipulate memories would cause issues, as Kyoko shows.

[NemZ]

No, because we don't see them removing Asuka's memories after her mental contamination.

I'm not sure that follows. Even if it was possible to do without killing her and sticking her in Asuka2 they might not want to, as those blocked memories, painful as they are, are exactly what drives her to want to pilot in the first place.

It might also further screw up her ability to synchronize. Mothers seem a little finicky about that sort of thing, as Yui shows in rejecting the dummy plug/Rei.

[Baz]

I meant specifically in relation to Rei because she'd died and her soul was easily malleable. Removing Asuka's soul to manipulate memories would cause issues, as Kyoko shows.

My own guess is that manipulating memories would be easier to do on a living being than on the souls of the deceased. Or at least no more difficult.

[Duke]

But Baz, Rei ISN'T a human. She is a SoL with a human body.

It is probably easier for them to change her memories.

Also, the battle probably wasn't in her long term memory, that''s why I think she couldn't remember it.

[Legendary]

Why? With the dead you have the soul and don't have to worry about hurting them whilst alive. With the living you have the soul and you probably have to be a lot more careful, not to mention the fact that the brain would keep the memories even if the soul did not, as neuroscience is even more difficult and risky.

[Baz]

I see it in an entirely different way. Neuroscience & neurosurgery are fairly advanced fields, they've been sticking electrodes into peoples heads for a long time now, they already know what parts of the brain are responsible for memory and selection of specific memories probably ain't too far off. With the "soul science" in NGE I always imagine that they're more at the sledgehammer stage than at the scalpel stage. Look at their crazy attempt to retrieve Shinji from Shogouki...

@Duke: Easier because she's a SoL? Holds no water.

[AuraTwilight]

If so, they failed badly because she figured it out pretty quick.

NERV? Terrible success rate? Nooooooo...

With the "soul science" in NGE I always imagine that they're more at the sledgehammer stage than at the scalpel stage. Look at their crazy attempt to retrieve Shinji from Shogouki...

Bad example. It failed because Shinji didn't want to come back, but otherwise it probably would have worked fine.

[master0rolando]

i wonder if maybe they had someway to actually record Rei's memory as it happens...and then insert that data into the new one...