Dr. Katsuragi not the donor?

[Count A'ight]

Original title: Akira not the donor?

Okay, here's something that's bugging me.

If Katsuragi-hakase was the donor for the 2I experiment, wouldn't Misato have taken one look at Kaworu and said "OMG! That kid looks just like my dad!"?

Also...

The contact experiments with Yui and Kyoko resulted in their absorbtions into Shogouki and Nigouki. Attempts to get them out did not result in a whole lot of success. Katsuragi-hakase, however, was neither absorbed into Adam nor driven insane by the time he sealed Misato in that tube thing. So... what gives? Were they just trying a fundamentally different kind of experiment?

I dunno. I'm too lazy to fanwank something right now, so have a go at it.

[UrsusArctos]

When did anyone say that Dr. Katsuragi was the donor?

When did anyone say that his name was Akira? ;)

[AyrYntake]

Reichu said it, quite a while ago.
Honestly, the name Akira is just there for argument's sake and because I can't be bothered to write "Misato's dad" every time I refer to him.
That's my take on the whole Akira thing.

I think the entire thing was a different experiment altogether. We know that the 2I experiment was something involving the LnY, so it's fundamentally different from Yui's and Kyoko's Contact Experiments.

In any case, doing a Contact Experiment with Akira and Adam would (arguably?) have turned Adam into an Eva with Akira's soul inside...?

Which doesn't happen, so it's not a Contact Experiment.[/lame argument]

[Reichu]

Honestly, the name Akira is just there for argument's sake and because I can't be bothered to write "Misato's dad" every time I refer to him.

Just write "Dr. K."

I think the entire thing was a different experiment altogether. We know that the 2I experiment was something involving the LnY, so it's fundamentally different from Yui's and Kyoko's Contact Experiments.

I agree that it was fundamentally different, but not QUITE because of the Spear's involvement. As far as we know (which isn't much), the Spear wasn't an integral part of the experiment; it was being used in an attempt to rein in Adam AFTER things started going haywire.

In any case, doing a Contact Experiment with Akira and Adam would (arguably?) have turned Adam into an Eva with Akira's soul inside...?

Adam already had a soul, so...

Which doesn't happen, so it's not a Contact Experiment.[/lame argument]

It's still called a "contact experiment", regardless. But the human experimentee is referred to as the "donor" rather than the "test subject", and it's DNA rather than a soul that goes a-divin'.

[NemZ]

um... use the spear to jab a hole in it and toss in a corpse to see what happens? Sounds about right.

[V]

The exact nature of the creation of Kaworu remains one of the major mysteries of the series

but based on the statement that "he's basically Seele's version of what Rei is to Nerv", I've settled on that:

1- he PROBABLY is not a new "Angel" soul per se, there was no "Tabris soul", he's just Adam's soul slapped into a human clone body shell, thus ironically considered both the "first" and "last" Angel. Nonetheless, he does not consider himself to be equivalent to "Adam", given that he's looking for (what he thinks is) the inert lifeless body of Adam, "mother of us all", so....yeah.....

2- he is a clone of SOMEONE, just as Rei was the clone of Yui. This begs the question of whether it was supposed to be of a specific person or not.

Thankfully, this might be one of the things Rebuild has a good chance of addressing.

[niyyuu]

1- he PROBABLY is not a new "Angel" soul per se, there was no "Tabris soul", he's just Adam's soul slapped into a human clone body shell, thus ironically considered both the "first" and "last" Angel. Nonetheless, he does not consider himself to be equivalent to "Adam", given that he's looking for (what he thinks is) the inert lifeless body of Adam, "mother of us all", so....yeah.....

Well, from episode 24:

???: "His [Adam's] salvaged soul exists only within you."
KEEL: "Yet his resurrected body exists within Ikari."
KAWORU: "Shinji's father... So, he is also the same as me."

but based on the statement that "he's basically Seele's version of what Rei is to Nerv"...

Kaworu/Tabris does tell Rei, "You're the same as me. So, both of us ended up in the same form as the Lilim while we inhabit this planet."


As for the original topic, is the reason for the experiment with Adam ever explained?

[AyrYntake]

This raises the question of whether it was supposed to be of a specific person or not.

Fixed; in before Reichu does her nitpick thing again.

As for the question of Kaworu's soul, I suppose he wasn't aware of his true nature, just like Rei wasn't aware of her identity as Lilith--both of them having had their souls split from their original bodies.

In any case, does the soul retain the original being's memories?

And no, I don't think the reason for the first Contact Experiment was ever explained.

[master_lloyd]

I was under the impression the contact experiment was something to do with the S2 Theory. Admittedly I'm only thinking this because that's mentioned during the opening of 'Death'.

Also I think the souls do maintain some memories or at least retain some of the 'feelings' they had for people. I mean look at ep1 when unit-01 saves Shinji from the falling light, if Yui didn't remember who Shinji was then she wouldn't have bothered, she'd be like "Hell, that guy's screwed..."

[AyrYntake]

I suppose so...then again, Shinji's kind of a significant character because that's whom she initially fused with the Eva for. Mere speculation here, but would that make him an exception?

[Count A'ight]

In any case, does the soul retain the original being's memories?

Sometimes. Examples to the positive: Yui, Kyoko. Example to the negative: Rei.

[AyrYntake]

As I pointed out above, memories of donors' own children are probably exceptions. Kyoko went mad because the part of her soul that loved her daughter entered into Eva-02, which caused her not to recognize Asuka henceforth. Yui completely disappeared, but we know that she continued to protect Shinji.

We know that they chose to do so for the reason that they hoped doing so would provide their children a future, hence keeping the memory of their children core to their existence. We don't know that they retained any other memories, which may have been discarded as irrelevant.

[Count A'ight]

We know that they chose to do so

They what?

[AyrYntake]

They chose to merge with the Eva bodies.

[Count A'ight]

And what evidence is there to indicate that this was a choice? Because if it was, they might have bothered to tell someone about it first: "Oh by the way, if I end up liquefying during the test, don't bother trying to put me back together - it might have unintended consequences"

[Ornette]

And what evidence is there to indicate that this was a choice? Because if it was, they might have bothered to tell someone about it first: "Oh by the way, if I end up liquefying during the test, don't bother trying to put me back together - it might have unintended consequences"

/yawn old news is old

FUYUTSUKI:
I have already handed the data over to Ikari.
It's not something that can be accomplished by an individual after all.
There won't be a repeat performance of the stunt I pulled earlier.
And I've sort of received a warning.
Getting rid of me couldn't be easier for them, it seems.

YUI:
The same goes for all the survivors.
It's a simple thing to destroy people.

FUYUTSUKI:
But that's no reason for you to become an experimental subject.

YUI:
I will go along with the flow of things.
After all, that is why I am at Seele.
For Shinji.

She told Fuyutsuki, but apparently not Gendo.

[AuraTwilight]

Because if they didn't, they wouldn't of done the experiment. Not to mention Yui's case in particular was part of a Xanatos Gambit to prevent Instrumentality's ultimate outcome.

[thewayneiac]

When did anyone say that Dr. Katsuragi was the donor?

When did anyone say that his name was Akira? ;)

Kaworu as a clone of Dr. K. is a Reichu theory related to the "Revelations Incident", though not near as far-fetched as the other theories from that time. In fact the evidence, which involved a comparison of Kaworu's and Kaji's facial expressions together with the stated fact that Kaji does look like Dr. K., while far from conclusive, is sound enough to make it a legitimate theory, though I believe Reichu doesn't find it strong enough to continue to advocate it.

"Akira" is a pet name for him. It's in honor of Kaworu's Seiyuu, Akira Ishida; so it's sort of an inside joke (the original should have the same voice actor as the clone). You shouldn't refer to him by that name in a serious thread.

[NemZ]

Yui chose to join the eva. I don't think Kyoko entirely knew what she was getting into, as evidenced by the fact that she wasn't absorbed. Her accident happened after Yui's, so she was probably trying to work around that issue. Maybe the goal was to somehow 'imprint' her soul on the eva (like the dolls in Ghost in the Shell 2)?

Too bad for Asuka she didn't just get absorbed all the way. Far less trauma involved and she likely would have been an even better pilot.

[UrsusArctos]

@wayne: I put that ;) smiley in for a purpose, you know.