Opinion on the opinion of Evangelion

[The Goose]

I meant that Lilith's body starts to change to a more femine form. This is before Rei merges with her. Lilith couldn't have changed if Lilith didn't have a soul.

I think I got my ansewer for this forum. Its up to you to find out Eva. No is right or wrong. Though I'm sure that there are some absolute ansewers to questions.

[directedition]

I meant that Lilith's body starts to change to a more femine form.

Wasn't Lilith a woman to begin with? Lilith was created next to Adam before Eve was made from Adam's rib.

[Ornette]

I meant that Lilith's body starts to change to a more femine form.

Wasn't Lilith a woman to begin with? Lilith was created next to Adam before Eve was made from Adam's rib.

Perhaps in Judaic/Kabbalist text. But not in NGE. They were probably named Adam and Lilith by Seele, who were religious fanatics.

[Trigger's Elysium]

Remember that with ambiguity comes common sense. It doesn't work that anything could have happened, remember that. It's not as if you can rewrite the events of the story because it's open.

Let's get something straight here. Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari, and she has the soul of Lillith. Kaworu is an Angel with the soul of Adam, but as he essentially has the same powers as Rei, he may be a clone of someone as well with the soul of Adam, but this is unlikely. Rei has the soul of Lillith, so she is essentially Lillith in the form of Yui.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Rei isn't exactly Lilith. Personal experiences make a person who they are. Rei Ayanami is Rei Ayanami and Lilith is Lilith. Compairing her to Kaworu isn't exactly fair since he knew his true self was Adam. Rei was running from Lilith until EoE.

TEXT:
The Third Character
In the Case of Rei Ayanami

Rei 3:
Who am I?

Rei 2:
Rei Ayanami.

Rei 3:
Who are you?

TEXT:
Rei Ayanami

Rei 3:
You're also Rei Ayanami?

Rei 2:
Yes, I am the thing that is called Rei Ayanami.

Rei 1:
We are all things that are called Rei Ayanami.

Rei 3:
How can we all be me?

Rei 2:
Because everybody calls us Rei Ayanami.

Rei 1:
Why do you possess a false heart and body?

Rei 3:
They are not false, because I am me.

Rei 1:
No, you are a person whose false soul was
created by the human named Gendo Ikari.
You're nothing but an object living a lie, pretending to be a person.
See? There's a dark part of your heart inside you
that you can see nothing of, that you know nothing of.
That's where the real you is.

Rei 2:
I am me.
Because I became who I am through the time I've spent
and the connections I've made with other people.

Rei 3 (OFF):
The current me has been molded through contact with other people.

Rei 2 (OFF):
Contact with people and the passage of time change the shape of my heart.

TEXT:
"Is that what ties are?"

Rei 2:
Yes, the things that have created the me called Rei Ayanami so far...
The things that will continue to shape me...

TEXT:
"That is what ties are"

Rei 1:
But the real you is somewhere else.
You just don't know it.
Because you don't want to see it.
You're just avoiding it without realizing it.

TEXT:
"Because you're afraid"

Rei 1 (OFF):
Because it may not be human in form.
Because the person that I have been
so far may cease to exist.

TEXT:
"You are afraid"

Rei 1:
You're afraid of ceasing to exist.
You're afraid of being erased from everyone's hearts.

Rei 3:
Afraid? I don't understand.

Rei 1:
Your own individual world will also cease to exist.

TEXT:
"It frightens you, doesn't it?"

Rei 1:
You will cease to exist.

TEXT:
"It frightens you, doesn't it?"

Rei 3:
No, it makes me happy.
Because I want to die.
What I desire is despair.
I want to return to nothingness.

Rei 2:
But I can't.
I cannot return to nothingness.
He won't let me return.

Rei 3:
He won't let me go back yet.

Rei 2 (OFF):
I existed because he needed me.

Rei 3:
But it's over now.
He's not going to need me anymore. He's going to abandon me.
I thought I had wished for that day to come, but...
Now, I am afraid.

She returned to her true self in the "Tadaima!" scene and thus Rei and Lilith truely became one.

[Trigger's Elysium]

By soul, she is Lillith. But the soul of Lillith and the body of Yui is, indeed, Rei Ayanami, a different being altogether.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Shinji may have ended up with Asuka, but it doesn't mean that he loves her.

It's debatable of how he actually feels about EITHER girl, I never got the impression that "love" was ever part of the equation throughout the entire series and movies. But Shinji did say he wanted to be with Asuka forever (as quoted above).

I'm reminded of a line from "Everything You've Ever Dreamed" which was an unused BGM for EoE. "What is love 'Til it comes home to you?". Not sure how much stock I place in the song itself but the idea fits.

I'm an R/S fan myself, but I don't dwell on things like that.
-----
Let's get something straight here. Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari, and she has the soul of Lillith. Kaworu is an Angel with the soul of Adam, but as he essentially has the same powers as Rei, he may be a clone of someone as well with the soul of Adam, but this is unlikely. Rei has the soul of Lillith, so she is essentially Lillith in the form of Yui.

I certainly hope you mean that in the sense that they looked cute during the series (as you've said elsewhere) and not that they'd make a good couple in the real world.

[Trigger's Elysium]

I think they could have been a couple. Don't be a bigot because you like AxS more; people can have opinions, you know.

[MaggotMaster]

Nobody respects my opinion when I say Shinji x Zeruel would be a good couple.

Oh well.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I think they could have been a couple. Don't be a bigot because you like AxS more; people can have opinions, you know.

I'm not trying to be a bigot I'm just shocked someone who says Rei is a clone of Yui likes SxR as a pairing. It's essentially advocating incest. Most SxR fans say they aren't related at all. I give you props on saying they are. I'll even admit SxR could have worked if her secrets never got out.

Nobody respects my opinion when I say Shinji x Zeruel would be a good couple.

Oh well.

They're from different branches of humanity and radically different sizes it could never work.

[Trigger's Elysium]

Incest is best put your mother to the test?

I think the Freudian aspects of it makes it that much more delicious.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

:shock: Well as long as you realize what you're saying. :shock:

[Trigger's Elysium]

Shinji DOES have a slight Oedipus complex, so...

<_<;

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Well yeah he certainly did until he realized he did. I don't think he liked the realization when it sunk in and he vehemently rejected that side of himself. Doesn't look like Misato ever managed to rid herself of her Elektra complex though. Good thing she isn't actually related to Kaji.

[Ornette]

Shinji may have ended up with Asuka, but it doesn't mean that he loves her.

It's debatable of how he actually feels about EITHER girl, I never got the impression that "love" was ever part of the equation throughout the entire series and movies. But Shinji did say he wanted to be with Asuka forever (as quoted above).

I'm reminded of a line from "Everything You've Ever Dreamed" which was an unused BGM for EoE. "What is love 'Til it comes home to you?". Not sure how much stock I place in the song itself but the idea fits.

That's just the impression that I got. Clearly there's not "love at first sight" thing going on and every relationship goes downhill. I'm not saying there isn't a bond formed between any of these characters. At the very least, it's clear that Shinji at least cares about her, and there's some attraction, lust maybe, but IMO love never came into the picture, as far as the timeline of the series/movies are concerned. That's why I think shipping Shinji vs anyone in the context of the series/movies is out of context.

P.S. I'm not touching the Oedipus/Elektra thing.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Truth be told I'd be right there with you if not for the title of the final scene. "I need you" certainly implies romantic content.

[Trigger's Elysium]

That's just the impression that I got. Clearly there's not "love at first sight" thing going on and every relationship goes downhill. I'm not saying there isn't a bond formed between any of these characters. At the very least, it's clear that Shinji at least cares about her, and there's some attraction, lust maybe, but IMO love never came into the picture, as far as the timeline of the series/movies are concerned. That's why I think shipping Shinji vs anyone in the context of the series/movies is out of context.

P.S. I'm not touching the Oedipus/Elektra thing.

THANK YOU. I have never believed that the "true love" dynamic has existed in Eva, save Misato and Kaji. I mostly just like Shinji and Rei cause it's cute =P

BTW, Shinji never found out that Rei was a clone of his mother. He never rejected that side of himself like you said; I don't think he really knew. The rejecting of Rei mostly came from the "Holy shit, clones, you scare me lady".

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Really?

Shinji:
Rei Ayanami... So, that feeling I got really was her.
Like Mother...
Rei Ayanami and Mother...
What are you doing, Father?

That and he'd surely notice the identical physical appearance.

[Trigger's Elysium]

I suppose the fact she looked like his mother frightened him, but he was never implicitly told that she had the form of his mom frightened him.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

It was never implicitly said in the show that Rei is a clone of Yui or that she has Lilith's soul either. Even in the external canon info she is never referred to as a clone the closest we get to that is "made from Yui's flesh" in the CI.

Episode #16:
Shinji: Whoa, there's this womanly presence in here that I wasn't really acknowledging before. What's that on my cheek? Holy crap, it's Mom! And she just said, "Sou, yokatta wa ne"!
Later...
Rei: "Sou, yokatta wa ne."
Shinji: Holy fuck! She just said a really common Japanese phrase to me completely by chance, but it really reminds me of Mom! WTF could it mean?!?
<insert random other Rei-Yui connections that Shinji manages to make>