Can angels feel fear?

[captainhaddock]

It looks to me like before the 3rd angel self-destructs he is panicking.... Sorry if this question was asked before but I tried to read most of the serious discussion forum before I posted so I don't think it was >_>

[Legend of the Past]

That's a very good question. I really do wonder, can Angels feel fear, or emotions of any kind? Kaworu seems to suggest they can... But then one must wonder how much of an Angel Kaworu is.

[Light of the Dawn]

Interesting question.
Anyway, even if they do, they don't let it control themselves or being expressed in any form.
Angels reminds me of war machines, somehow, it looks just like they were born to fight without any fear or emotions.

[Kaysow]

Agreeing with Light of Dawn.

It looks kinda like that's just what we're supposed to think. Sachiel (is that right?) lifts his head up and looks at the camera, all banged up, shrieking. It's a fast clip, so it's all panicky (like many of the Evafights), but it really looks quite a lot like the usual look he has on his beaked little excuse for a face.
So it might've been "filmed" to make for amibiguous reading. It surewouldn't surprise me.

[Faußtin]

I say they have a lot of emotions. Remember when Armisael (16th Angel, alias DNA-dude ) made contact with Ayanami's mind? Well that proves everything. Or at least I think so.
Fear? Why not? But I don't think they were afraid from slide-slips such as the EVAs. But hubris tends to be the death of people, including the Angels.

[defiate]

"Angels are humans without a human form"- Misato, EoE

[Reichu]

"Angels are humans without a human form"- Misato, EoE

Technically, that abandoned human form. I would guess that said 'human form' is one along the lines of Mum and the Evas, of which Sandalphon represents a giant fetal version (before "hatching much sooner that predicted"). There's also that bit about the 'pattern' (whatever the hell that is) having a 99.89% match to the human genome.

Rei also calls Armisael "the person that we call an Angel". Also, the Evas are said to be human (and that's referring to their pre-ensouled state -- ergo, Adam is human, too) and Rei says that Kaworu "is as human as me". So, yeah... The intrinsic differences between "us and them" are somewhat overrated.

Because the Angels tend to look so 'wonky', though, it's difficult to read their emotions. But Zeruel, being another Angel who has a face (such an important point of reference for ordinary people ;) ), and, unlike Sachiel's, one capable of some movement, is a good individual for reference. A little walkthrough, since I love the guy so much:

He clearly has a keen sense of efficiency and starts out being quite patient, with no particular interest in harming EVA-02, but eventually she overdoes it. He still doesn't kill her, though, nor does he kill EVA-00, just gives them 'big owies' and moves on. Interesting, considering both were, for all intents and purposes, intent on killing him.

Now, Zeruel's attitude towards the Lilim is slightly different. When he busts into the Command Center, what does he do? He goes up to the people on the Command Tower and, at point-blank range, starts charging up his eyes. Can we say "overkill"? Maybe it's just me, but this entire little scene gives the sense of extreme vindictiveness on Zer's part, but that wouldn't be too surprising: He's eye-to-eye with the same creatures who, in a way, "stole the planet" from his people, reduced his mother to virtually nothing, and are now systematically destroying his siblings, as well.

EVA-01's intervention seems to catch him off guard and, strangely, he makes a rather feeble attempt to fight back. Once she's down, though, Zeruel does as he didn't before and goes for the core -- i.e., makes a serious attempt to actually kill her. Again, he isn't prepared for the intense counterstrike, where his trademark weapon (the cutter arms) crippled and his defenses are altogether shattered. It's notable that during this scene, you can finally hear Zeruel's own "voice", which seems to be associated with the expression of both pain and fear. The two emotions are especially evident in the cut where Zeruel is downed, EVA-01 crawls over him, and he attempts a last-resort eye-beam, but gets his face smashed in instead.

The badass who gets his ass handed to him in the end. For somebody who doesn't look "human", never actually speaks, and has such limited screen time, I think Zeruel is a rather interesting character. Sachiel is a neat one to analyze, as well -- he seems to start out as a sort of naive child, becoming rather more hardened and bitter after he experiences his first bout of true pain. Well... Watch the Angels closely keeping the fact that they're human in mind, and things start looking a lot different.

[The Eva Monkey]

While I have no answer to the question, I would pose the question of whether or not they are intelligent and self aware to the degree where they can have complex emotions like fear

[SEELE 08]

Well after Gendo's comment about science being the power of mankind, I think he was hinting mankind is intelligent and the angels have their brute strength. Besides the legend in the bible about mankind eating the fruit of wisdom they knew the difference between right and wrong....something then angels do not know in the myth. I'd say the angels probably have the intellgence of animals, they have emotions, not incredibly complex ones, but they do have some.

[Reichu]

While I have no answer to the question, I would pose the question of whether or not they are intelligent and self aware to the degree where they can have complex emotions like fear

You read the thread, Aaron-kun? If you have to pose this question, you're basically ignoring the fact that the Angels are human -- people.

BTW, fear is one of the most basic emotions of them all. (And, I'll note, that Armisael feels "loneliness" is essentially spoonfed to the audience.)

[SEELE 08]

BTW, fear is one of the most basic emotions of them all. (And, I'll note, that Armisael feels "loneliness" is essentially spoonfed to the audience.)

Loniless is a fairly basic emotion. Finches, and tetra fish don't do well without other members of their species.
Also a soul doesn't make you intelligent your brain does...we have no idea what kind of nuero systems the angels have, if any at all. They might just be more plantlike in origin, or in one case Iruel was just a colony of viruses.

[Reichu]

Also a soul doesn't make you intelligent your brain does...

I don't think this is stated anywhere in NGE.

They might just be more plantlike in origin

These are Angels, not Aragami. :P

[SEELE 08]

[img]I don't think this is stated anywhere in NGE.
[/img]

I don't think it needs to be. When someone gets brain damaged they lose intelligence, and since that seems to hold true in reality and well I'd imagine in NGE, unless badly brain damaged people are just intelligent as before they lost chunks of their brains in the eva-verse. A soul may have a conciousness within NGE, but it's not what's responisble for your intelligence.

[Reichu]

In this case, Seele, I think you're confining a reading of the anime too closely to the rules of reality. The Angels make a living out of stretching and outright breaking those rules (or, at least, our expectations).

Also remember that their congenital anatomical state is the human one that they "abandon" when they hatch.

[SEELE 08]

In this case, Seele, I think you're confining a reading of the anime too closely to the rules of reality, with regard to these entities who make a living out of stretching and outright breaking those rules (or, at least, our expectations).

Also remember that their congenital anatomical state is the human one that they "abandon".

Yes and the sea of LCL was somewhat similar too death, a mindless but conscious state of bliss.

[Reichu]

Yes and the sea of LCL was somewhat similar too death, a mindless but conscious state of bliss.

Non sequitor.

[SEELE 08]

To rephrase that, it's not a state of thinking, you can feel emotion without thinking. There is a conciousness....but not an intelligence.

[Mr. Tines]

In this case, Seele, I think you're confining a reading of the anime too closely to the rules of reality,

== "Please think of the catgirls."

Best example to examine is the soul-damaged, but neurologically intact, state of Kyoko

Yes and the sea of LCL was somewhat similar too death, a mindless but conscious state of bliss.

Bliss? Like the shouting match of complementation, but without all the shouting, empty, lonely and ultimately boring. My guess is that naked souls don't even have the luxury of zoning out due to sensory deprivation.

[SEELE 08]

Best example to examine is the soul-damaged, but neurologically intact, state of Kyoko

Someone who is neurologically stable does not hang themselves. Their was damage to her there, she wasn't intelligent but not fully concious of who she was. Her soul was sundered. She had her brain but not her full being or conciousness.

[Legend of the Past]

Kyoko had a WARPED sense of reality. She was quite aware of who she was and she still knew her daugther was called Asuka. She lost her motherly part, hence her thinking the doll is her daugther and the real Asuka is some random girl. Considering how her husband cheated on her openly and her 'daughter' sort of 'agreed' to join her in death, she didn't do anything a sane woman wouldn't do in her state.