Best subtitles for Evangelion TV series?

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Postby chaosakita » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:25 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:Someone needs to make some new subtitles that are accurate and poetic. Those Platinum subs can be something of a hate crime against prose in places, to say nothing of the various literal translation projects. Shit, at least the dub dialogue sounds like dialogue.


I'm trying to make a new script translation for End of Evangelion. I guess I'm trying to make it sound natural, but sometimes I think the stilted-sounding writing in translations sounds better.

btw, here is the script of EoE I found:

http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/jsrc/dust/theend.html

It's been instrumental (lol) in trying to re-translated EoE. There is no way I could do so without a typed scripted.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:00 am

Do you know Japanese?
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Postby symbv » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:36 pm

View Original Postchaosakita wrote:btw, here is the script of EoE I found:

http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/jsrc/dust/theend.html

Thanks chaosakita !!

===

BTW, I would like to add a few comments about "inochi" 命 versus "seimei" 生命. As I said both can mean life in general, but "inochi" is also used when the life of an individual is meant, like in "a dog's life" "a worm's life" etc Nothing to do with the EoE dialogue that I translated. Just to share some finer details about the Japanese words.
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Postby chaosakita » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:55 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:Do you know Japanese?


Not really. But I have four translations to work off of, a Japanese dictionary, and I'm working with symbv above. I guess it's more like a re-edit?
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Postby Warren Peace » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:35 am

Interesting stuff. Apart from translation issues, I've always wondered how the dialogue comes across to Japanese viewers on an artistic level. Translated into English, the show excels in plot and visual storytelling more than dialogue. It's very plainspoken. Some have noted that the subs are a little flat, but could it be that the writing itself is flat? If so, I'm OK with that. I'm into Eva more for it's ideas and characters than flowery language, but I wonder where that problem began.

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Postby symbv » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:22 am

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote: Some have noted that the subs are a little flat, but could it be that the writing itself is flat? If so, I'm OK with that. I'm into Eva more for it's ideas and characters than flowery language, but I wonder where that problem began.

The exposition given in Evangelion can sound mysterious and even confusingly vague in its original Japanese. Translation into English can rid the mystery and vagueness from the original language, but I guess it cannot be helped as it is better to keep the exposition accurate and loyal to the original. Besides the language used in less technical or expositional circumstances is nothing too unusual in anime. On the other hand, Evangelion is famous for popularizing the layout style of using big thick font of various sizes and arranging them in off-center position with a pitch-black background, and of course the episode titles are well remembered.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:18 pm

A lot of the non-exposition dialogue in Eva strikes me as much more naturalistic and occasionally poetic than the anime norm, hence my interest in a more prose-sensitive translation.
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Postby chaosakita » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:55 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:A lot of the non-exposition dialogue in Eva strikes me as much more naturalistic and occasionally poetic than the anime norm, hence my interest in a more prose-sensitive translation.


On the other hand, my favorite dialogue would have to be the very complicated, philosophical dialogue of Keel, Gendou, Fuyutsuki, and the like. It sounds great in context, but I could never imagine a native English speaker talking like that.
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:27 am

View Original Postchaosakita wrote:btw, here is the script of EoE I found:

http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/jsrc/dust/theend.html


How do I get this to display? I've been able to display every Japanese page I've run into in the past, but this one is showing up as gibberish.

I'm using Firefox in Windows XP.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:50 am

^
It's weird, it looks like simple Shift_JIS to me, generally I have issues with the automatic detection of EUC-JP. Try to manually force it by going to "View/Character Encoding/More Encodings/East Asian/Japanese (Shift_JIS)".
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Postby Ornette » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:32 am

It's SHIFT_JIS, all you need to do is download it and use a meta tag to add the correct encoding, something like:

[code:1]meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Shift-JIS" [/code:1]

Except as an HTML tag, in the page's header. The webserver isn't giving you the character set (like it's supposed to) and the page itself lacks any sort of help at all (it looks like it's from the 90's, pre-web 1.0).

For example: http://tesuji.org/tmp/theend.html

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:35 am

Displays fine for me, for whatever reason. (Firefox 17.0.1 on Windows XP.)
Last edited by Reichu on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby riffraff11235 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:40 am

Works fine for me as well. Using Opera 12.12 on Windows 7.
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:00 am

Thanks guys, I got it working! :)

I had actually already tried enabling SHIFT_JIS before, but what I was doing wrong was using the html file I saved before enabling it. I didn't know until just now that html files are saved differently depending on which Character Encoding is selected. You'd think something under the View menu would only change how things are viewed...now I have to figure out how to uninstall the files for East Asian languages...because that's what I installed when I was trying to figure it out myself before posting here. :(
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:10 am

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:now I have to figure out how to uninstall the files for East Asian languages...because that's what I installed when I was trying to figure it out myself before posting here. :(

Why should you uninstall them? Just leave them here, they can be handy with Japanese programs. Also, do you have "View/Character Encoding/Auto-Detect/Universal" enabled?
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:56 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Why should you uninstall them? Just leave them here, they can be handy with Japanese programs.


Well, they take up almost 230mb, and I have no Japanese programs.

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Also, do you have "View/Character Encoding/Auto-Detect/Universal" enabled?


I do not. Maybe I should have had it set to Japanese, eh?
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:18 pm

"Universal" seems to work fine too, at least with that particular page.
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Postby shinhito » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:59 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote:シンジ君。私達人間はね、アダムと同じリリスと呼ばれる、生命体の源から生まれた、18番目の使徒なのよ。
> Shinji, we humans were born from a being called Lilith, who is the source of life just like Adam. We are the 18th Angel.

This is the trickiest line, and it caused a lot of discussions and debates even among Japanese viewers because the line can easily be interpreted in vastly different ways.

I remember seeing some Japanese read it like
"Shinji, we humans were born from a source of lifeforms called Lilith, just like Adam"
and proceeded to conclude that Angels were born from Lilith as well.

That view did not take hold, and today the line is read like (in English translation)
"Shinji, we humans were born from a source of lifeforms called Lilith, which is like Adam [in that it is also a source of lifeforms], and we are the 18th Angel."
Here the interpretation is that Adam and Lilith are both 生命体の源 (source of lifeforms) and they are equivalent to each other.

他の使徒達は別の可能性だったの。ヒトの形を捨てた人類の。
ただ、お互いを拒絶するしかなかった悲しい存在だったけどね。
同じ人間同士も……
> The other Angels are possibilities of what we might have become - humans that gave up human form.
> Sadly, we had to reject each other - even though we're all human...

That's fine. I would translate like the following but it would be just wording preference..

The other Angels are other possibilities, that of humanity that abandoned the human form.
But it was just a sad thing that we could only reject each other, even between human and human...


This whole thread is fascinating and brings up a lot more questions than it solves. Mainly about the nature of meaning and connotation between different languages. What one expects from a translation; literal meaning or slightly assuaged interpretation to make things more palatable.

Anyway, my understanding of this line was incredibly helped by reading the Neon Genesis Evangelion 企画書 (Proposal). With gaps then filled in with the Classified Information files from the Evangelion 2 PS2 game. While I consider the PS2 less canon, I think the intent laid out from the original proposal helps immensely. Specifically that Adam and Lilith, while considered "angels" are separate and different from each other. So it seems to me Misato is trying to explain that like the Angels which were born from Adam, we too were born from a similar but different being, Lilith.

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Postby Vegeta » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:03 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Those are all transcripts and not sub files per se.


Simple coding can fix this. Take any Inferior subtitle file, open it in a text editor, and replace the bad script with the good script. It could take a while but it will be timed and ready to go.

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Postby Tumbling Down » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:35 pm

I guess I'll use this thread to ask my question.

Image

The version of the line in my copy is

"You're no fun. You look cute, but you're kind of a cold fish."

Does that mean this is a fansub? Is it anything that anyone recognizes?


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