Shinji is exposed to several attractive women in Eva...

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:06 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Yeah, Everyone would thank Love interest B for her selfless sacrifice by shagging Mrs. C a few hours after her death.
Sex and death are quite intimately linked in the human psyche -- at the biological level it's probably "someone's died, need a replacement". It's something I can attest from personal experience.

Comfort copulation with a compliant partner is really the more natural response.
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Postby honsou » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:13 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Comfort copulation with a compliant partner is really the more natural response.


Not when the partner is basically a family member.

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Postby Allemann » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:23 pm

View Original Posthonsou wrote:Not when the partner is basically a family member.


This is disregarded in anime.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:34 pm

View Original Posthonsou wrote:Not when the partner is basically a family member.
The key word here is "compliant".
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Postby honsou » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:24 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:The key word here is "compliant".


Compliant by one side. Shinji in these scenes are clearly not "in the mood", mix that to the fact that he sees Mistato as a sort of mother figure; it would make this sort sexual advance by Mistato actually a sort of betrayal of their relationship in Shinji's eyes.

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Postby Ritsuko » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:35 am

View Original PostCody MacArthur Fett wrote:No, all it proves it that females can be just as evil horrific monsters as males. 'Cause that's what pedophilia is, no matter the gender, a horrific violation of the trust and innocence of a person who can not comprehend what they're doing if they even enter into it willingly.

Also, your arguments seem to all be based off the fatally flawed and highly offensive stereotype that all males want sex. Why?


Female pedos aren't like male pedophiles. Matter of fact I'll go as far to say most 14-16 year olds feel a sense of nurture from these women, something like a mother/sex partner feeling you could say. Your response is that typical of what society tells you to react to this subject.

btw I'm stating the basic male desire at his age. Denying basic sexual facts about our primtive human side is also a flaw. If he looks at Misato as a mother or not, Shinji as we seen does feel that basic primitive sexual drive towards her. The only thing stopping him from going further is his depression/ and immaturity level.

Shinji is a broken little boy...

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:46 pm

View Original PostRitsuko wrote:Female pedos aren't like male pedophiles. Matter of fact I'll go as far to say most 14-16 year olds feel a sense of nurture from these women, something like a mother/sex partner feeling you could say. Your response is that typical of what society tells you to react to this subject.

btw I'm stating the basic male desire at his age. Denying basic sexual facts about our primtive human side is also a flaw. If he looks at Misato as a mother or not, Shinji as we seen does feel that basic primitive sexual drive towards her. The only thing stopping him from going further is his depression/ and immaturity level.

Shinji is a broken little boy...


Please excuse me if I don't share these very negative views on humanity.
I don't think men, or any other humans, are simple instinct machines.
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Postby Ritsuko » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:15 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Please excuse me if I don't share these very negative views on humanity.
I don't think men, or any other humans, are simple instinct machines.


We aren't simple machines but there is no denying that our biology and instinct do play heavy roles in our choice of mates. For example, when some women say this classic line "Dating taller men is a preference", it translates to her basic instinct of a guys height meaning strength and good genes.

This is why many adult sites give men visual variety of females, short, tall, chubby, skinny, where as for adult videos for women mostly show a generic tall, fit guy in some romance emotional film. It's all instinct, biology, and all the primitive stuff.

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:06 pm

View Original PostRitsuko wrote:We aren't simple machines but there is no denying that our biology and instinct do play heavy roles in our choice of mates. For example, when some women say this classic line "Dating taller men is a preference", it translates to her basic instinct of a guys height meaning strength and good genes.

This is why many adult sites give men visual variety of females, short, tall, chubby, skinny, where as for adult videos for women mostly show a generic tall, fit guy in some romance emotional film. It's all instinct, biology, and all the primitive stuff.


Such adult videos are things that people deriberalety seek out to satisfy their lowly instinct, they are created expecially for that facet of human existence. But in real life, short men also get mates, or else, they would have died out, wouldn't they?
This is like you wanted to prove that all people smoke by going to a smoking area. Certainly a lot of teenaged boys would watch porn with adult women, or fantasize about adult women while masturbating, but that doesn't mean they would fuck then in a "Real Life" situation.

And to get back to topic - C'mon, just think of what your reactions would have been if Shinji HAD fucked Misato.
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Postby Xard » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:22 pm

Ritsuko is Ritsuko, Kendrix... don't sweat too much :)

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:33 am

If Shinji weren't dealing with some really serious neuroses, and if Misato wasn't essentially a mother figure for him, he might go for her. As is...eh. The very idea of sex probably scares him silly. The idea of sex with Misato makes his brain shut down.

MILFs are cool. MILFs you think of as family, not so much. Men aren't quite that simple.
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Postby Jessemon » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:41 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:And to get back to topic - C'mon, just think of what your reactions would have been if Shinji HAD fucked Misato.


Probably on par with my reaction to Shinji masturbating to comatose Asuka...
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Postby Kendrix » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:44 am

View Original PostJessemon wrote:Probably on par with my reaction to Shinji masturbating to comatose Asuka...


Exactly. He's fourteen.
And about the "need replacement thing" Shinji probably hadn't reached the "denial" stage of grief yet, he was still in "shock", I mean, he was just sitting there, staring at the ceiling in disbelief, unable to express his emotions.
Retreating to his room and not letting anyone near him is Shinji's usual reaction to horrible happenings.
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Postby juaxoo » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:20 pm

no it's becuz Shinji's got a huge dick and he afraid he'll hurt all the women that wants to have sex with him, becuz the women aren't capable of Shinji

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Re: Shinji is exposed to several attractive women in Eva...

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Postby MassiveInvader » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:28 pm

View Original PostLeighton wrote:So why does he save it for the beginning EoE scene?

I mean if he was keen enough to jerk off to Asuka in EoE, why didn't he take all those other opportunities. He rejects Misato's invitation, and rejects or doesn't react very well to Asuka's. Is it just an indication of his lack of social skills?

I'm really hoping he gets it on with Asuka (or Rei considering the near 3rd Impact incident) in Rebuild haha.


Not sure if this has been said or not but, Shinji, Rei, and Asuka are the three parts of the brain. Shinji is the ego (or the part of your brain that makes you make good choices,I forget) throughout the series, its his superego vs his id( id being bad choices, and superego being good choices I think) In that particular scene in the begining of End of Evangelion ,his id won.(again if I'm wrong PLEASE tell me.)
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Postby ite89 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:19 am

The Ego mediates between the Superego and the Id. The Id is represents the unconscious and is not necessarily evil but draws its strength from primitive desires. The Superego is the representation of a conscience which is something that represents the influence of the child's upbringing. In some aspects I do agree with you! But again i'd like to state that good and bad is really relative and one cannot immediately attribute something that is "bad" to the Id and something "good" to the superego. I've always seen Eva as something heavily based on the oedipal conflict and it's the first time i've seen this analogy to the structural model of the psyche (or maybe i'm just a little to lazy to read some of the other threads). But yeah I do see the parallelisms MassiveInvader! Again, you may correct me if I am wrong haha I may be a little rusty on psychology haha. Back to the topic, personally i think that he did not want to have sex with Misato because he was still grieving the loss of a friend, he sees her as a mother figure and the reaction of a 14 year old with Shinji's personality type wouldn't automatically be receptive sex (in my opinion). I mean, shy kids don't really act out their fantasies in real life that's why they resort to porn haha and fantasy. I guess he only jacked off beside Asuka because he knew she was unconscious.I think that this was his psyche's reaction to the amount of trauma he experienced. The way I see it i think it's more on this train of thought "You (Asuka) cannot offer me comfort consciously so I must find a way to comfort myself" Sort of like a child who weans himself from his/her mother's breast eventually "thumb sucking" thus a regression to childhood (since his mother wasn't around i'd have to assume that he had done a lot of thumb sucking or "probably" his connection to his SDAT is a form of self comforting found during the time without his mother. And a kid who says "I'm disgusting" after jacking off to an unconscious lady friend haha wouldn't exactly be too happy about sleeping with his "mother" figure haha. I really really do hope that he does "get it on" with either Asuka or Rei haha.

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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:57 pm

Id, Ego, and Superego are easily-understood as "I want," "This is how," "But I shouldn't-".

In other words, your unconscious desires/instincts, your logical mind that gets shit done, and your conscience/sense of morality. I would not agree that the three pilots map easily onto any of these categories, save maybe Rei, but that's more a function of her being socially retarded and unable to parse her emotions than being some sort of ultra-rational Reibot (we might recall her more emotion-driven later behavior).

As for the "why didn't he fuck Misato" argument, well, it seems fairly obvious. He sees her as a mother figure - or, at least, he wants to. He makes a conscious effort to divorce her from sexuality in his mind, but that doesn't mean he's successful in doing so, and I would hazard a guess that he finds this humiliating and disgusting from a moral perspective. It's worth noting that Misato propositioned him under highly unusual circumstances and that other factors may have played into his angry/frightened reaction. Shinji probably has issues with sex and affection anyway - that whole fear of rejection thing again. It might not be a coincidence that the only overtly sexual behavior he demonstrates to another is when they're incapable of reacting (and rejecting).

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Postby Leuconoe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:45 pm

Probably because of his mental conditions at the time. I think of his rejection of Misato after Rei sacrificed Eva Unit 00 and herself when I say that. I always thought Shinji was more comfortable with Rei than any of the other women (with her connection to Yui), and since his one female comfort was gone, he closed himself off to any other females.

But in the End of Evangelion, he did say "Misato and Ayanami scare me," so Asuka was his last option? Interesting!

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Postby Nyanlathotep » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:14 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:If Shinji weren't dealing with some really serious neuroses, and if Misato wasn't essentially a mother figure for him, he might go for her. As is...eh. The very idea of sex probably scares him silly. The idea of sex with Misato makes his brain shut down.

MILFs are cool. MILFs you think of as family, not so much. Men aren't quite that simple.


Yeah. Mom figures are usually only hot until they become your mom.

Especially given the scene between Misato and Shinji at the end of episode 24. I feel like much of the Shinji/Misato dynamic after that is just too much for Shinji to handle emotionally, and Misato gives several mixed signals to him (violently dragging him, kissing him... saying she hated Kaworu and then leaning in to comfort Shinji) that scare him. After she kisses him and throws him in the elevator he just breaks down and starts crying.

It's also worth noting that a lot of Shinji and Misato's relationship, especially earlier on in the series, revolved around Misato verbally abusing Shinji on the basis of his failure to embody the male ideal ("you're a boy, aren't you?" being an arc phrase), which makes all of these "man up, Shinji" posts a bit disturbing.
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:21 pm

This is near stream-of-consciousness. Forgive me.

People focus too heavily on the masturbation itself when they form a reading of That Scene. There's a great deal going on there and the jerking off is only part of it.

It's important to view everything leading up to the part where he manages to roll her over and her gown pops open. The horror at what he does do her, which amounts to a sort of proxy rape, overshadows the heartbreaking scene that leads up to it. He's literally begging her to wake up, even to insult him. He wants her back. This is important.

The way they both figure in each other's instrumentality/mindrape/vision quest fugues is critically important in understanding their relationship. Shinji is not in love with Asuka, they have not experienced some grand romance, but the seed is there and that is important. Misato, after all, is alive and awake and Shinji goes to Asuka instead. He expresses concern for her, even though it is selfish.

He does say that Rei III and Misato frighten him, but he's not telling Asuka she's his last resort, he's asking her to come back because he wants something to be normal again.

The second part of the scene begins when he successfully rolls her onto her back and she is exposed. The camera pulls back -and recall that in animation, the position of the camera can be anywhere, and so its positioning is always a deliberate choice by the director, and therefore means something.

Up until that point, we're on his level, standing next to him, positioned very close to him as he tries to wake her up. When she's exposed, the camera briefly zooms very close to her chest, and Shinji is not in frame. At that point, we're sharing his viewpoint.

It then pulls back. While Shinji completes the act, we're observing from above. Asuka is posed on the bed in a way very reminiscent of a dakimakura pillow, much like this one:

SPOILER: Show
Image


There are others that are even closer but I'm not posting them here and frankly I don't feel like looking them up.

At that point, we are no longer sharing Shinji's viewpoint, but Anno's. We are standing next to him as he takes the role he takes throughout EoE and throughout the series. He's acting as a silent narrator, and the question he's asking here is "are you not entertained? is this not why you are here?"

The essence of that scene, and of the series, is that the director's attempt to consciously insert a theme conflicts with the themes that arise from the work. That is why, in essence, EoE perfectly captures the mind of a depressed person. It goes beyond depicting depression to become depression.

At this point, Shinji is no longer acting organically, because he is not permitted. He may have naturally jerked it to her but in this specific instance the intentionally visible fictionality of the film is conspiring to make him unsympathetic when what's happening is deeply sympathetic. He is such a broken individual that he can't connect with Asuka on the level he instinctively desires to. Every teenage boy will masturbate and fantasize about girls and women he desires, but Shinji specifically uses the act to separate himself from his emotional urges.

After he completes the act, we switch to a first person view. When he famously comments on his own fucked-up-ness, the camera equates us with Shinji. I am fucked up = You are fucked up.

More to the point of the thread: If you examine all of the times that Shinji is put in a sexual situation or offered sex, his reaction is natural and correct, particularly with Asuka in instrumentality and with Misato.

Misato offering to sleep with him isn't "manning him up", it's disgusting, not just because of their ages, but because of the position of power she has over him and the dependency he has on her. It's not overt, but there is a way to read Misato's interactions with him, all of them, as fulfillment of her desire for revenge by proxy. She's not necessarily calculating about it the way he is, but what she is doing to him is the same as what Gendo does to Naoko and Ritsuko.

Unlike them, though, Shinji knows that it's wrong and resists, even if it's only instinct.

In other words, imagine the same question -why doesn't Shinji sack up and drill these bitches- but switch it out with another character. Why doesn't Rei get her ovaries in order and jump Gendo's bones, or drag Shinji into the locker room and sit on his face? Why did Asuka stop with a kiss and not just tear her shirt off? Imagine if her advance towards Kaji had been met with the reaction she wanted.

See my point?

Eva uses sex as a metaphor for Instrumentality but it does not equate sex with intimacy. In many ways, sex gets in the way of intimacy. Hence Anno's anger over the fabase's reaction and the bitterness that infuses EoE. A point is made with Shinji's relationship with all the girls, but especially Asuka; he ruins what could grow into a strong connection between them by seeing her as a sex object, and Misato does the same thing with him.

There's also the constant theme of Shinji as a girl in a boy's body, not meaning that he is a transsexual but that he highlights cultural expectations for boys and girls- he's not a man and needs to be manned up through sexual abuse by Misato because he takes on a passive role. He suffers and Asuka suffers because they try to force themselves into the role society dictates for them, particularly Asuka; she wants to be the aggressor as much as Shinji wants to passively receiver her affection but their cultural hangups, particularly hers, will not permit it.
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