Shinji 2.0 an improvement?

[Legendary]

He doesn't think she's dead. He says that Gendo TRIED to kill Asuka, not that he killed her.

[esselfortium]

Okay, my same point still applies. Actually, I think that makes things even worse.

Also, thanks Shinji for being totally disinterested in her condition or the prospect of seeing her when Misato asks him.

[Seele00TextOnly]

essel: Adding to him already knowing she was alive all along (several people have pointed this out now) when he sees Eva-02, and hears Mari's voice, the blood pouring out of the Eva stains his hand. He looks at his bloody hand and almost certainly is thinking of Asuka right then, as later when he finally charges off to save Rei.

See, all the flashy details and high quality animation in Rebuild isn't just pretty... it'd used to help convey nuance and subtleties. Maybe it doesn't have to be used that way, things could be accomplished without those techniques and certainly were in the past, but it is used that way now. Hence, watching a camrip does not do the characters, the story, the storytelling, etc justice. Because it's not an illustrated book, it's a motion picture. Sorry for the oft-repeated personal rant about people attacking the film relentlessly without having ever seen it properly in the first place.

[esselfortium]

I'm pretty sure that no matter how well it was animated, Shinji being "meh" when Misato asks him about Asuka when he's leaving still makes me hate this Shinji.

If she had asked him that about Toji in episode 19 and he had the same response, I probably would have stopped caring about him in the show, too.

And honestly? It doesn't change my opinion that he sees blood on his hand. In the show, he freaks the fuck out when he sees Eva-02's head crash through the shelter, and again when he sees what Zeruel did to the rest of it, and it's because of Asuka. He should be freaking out at least as much here, if not more, but he's more concerned about himself.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Being unable to deal with the reality of her condition and how she got that way does not equal disinterest. He feels trauamatized and guilty to the point of having to run away from everything... I'm amazed these points are lost on some.

He isn't 'meh'. You're being absurd.

The more of this critique I see about reactions and how they should have gone, and your defense that you didn't have to clearly see the reactions anyway in the first place, the more obvious it is your entire anti-Rebuild argument is ridiculous. I have no idea what your deal is.

<essel> His reaction wasn't good enough or didn't make sense!
<me> did you really see it?
<essel> That's not important!

EDIT: In case this point is also somehow lost on some, the above exchange did not literally occur, and is therefore an attempt to summarize a perception of the situation.

[Legendary]

The point of his "meh" is that he's doing what he always does: running away. He's not just leaving Nerv at this point, he's trying to isolate himself from the pain.

[esselfortium]

Being unable to deal with the reality of her condition and how she got that way does not equal disinterest. He's feels trauamatized and guilty to the point of having to run away from everything... I'm amazed these points are lost on some.

He isn't 'meh'. You're being absurd.

The more of this critique I see about reactions and how they should have gone, and your defense that you didn't have to clearly see the reactions anyway in the first place, the more obvious it is your entire anti-Rebuild argument is ridiculous. I have no idea what your deal is.

<essel> His reaction wasn't good enough or didn't make sense!
<me> did you really see it?
<essel> That's not important!

No, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. I could see Shinji's expressions perfectly clearly, thanks. I watched a camrip, not a radio play reenactment.

An while we're calling people out on having not experienced the film properly before trying to argue for or against it, it should probably be noted that Legendary has yet to watch Rebuild 2.0 at all.

As you were.

[AuraTwilight]

Okay, my same point still applies. Actually, I think that makes things even worse.

Also, thanks Shinji for being totally disinterested in her condition or the prospect of seeing her when Misato asks him.

Because Shinji and Asuka were total Best Friends Forever who were always so eager to spend time together and shit, right?

[esselfortium]

Because Shinji and Asuka were total Best Friends Forever who were always so eager to spend time together and shit, right?

The film actually seems to try to play that both ways at the same time, failing miserably at both, but that's another subject for another thread.

Either way, his lack of regard for human life is pretty shitty. Even if you don't consider that it's someone who he lived with and saw every day, who was pretty obviously lonely and made lots of overt onscreen attempts to get closer to him.

Implying that he shouldn't care just neuters any of the remaining emotional impact that 2.0's Bardiel plot may have had.

[SJCrew]

Either way, his lack of regard for human life is pretty shitty.

It's alright, Ikari. Even if I die, I can be replaced.

No! There's no other Ayanami but you! That's why I will save you!

I think you guys are taking this "Shinji doesn't care about anything" stuff way too seriously. The only reason he said he didn't care about what happened to the world was because it was an intense moment of passion where he was willing to risk himself to save Rei (who he just so happened to care about more than anyone).

Of course, he still played out some of his natural Shinji tendencies to run from his problems, nothing we haven't seen before, but in the end, he always came back and did what he needed to do. I think this whole idea of him being a selfish jerk is just a farce with the underlying issue that some people just didn't care for 2.0 and desperately need something to bitch about.

[0x2eleven]

Okay, my same point still applies. Actually, I think that makes things even worse.

Also, thanks Shinji for being totally disinterested in her condition or the prospect of seeing her when Misato asks him.

I agree. I don't think Shinji knows of Asuka's condition.

Do I think Shinji is a douche because he doesn't seem to care? Nope.

First, unless Shinji is some heartless monster (heartless monsters don't cry, and we all know that's a Shinji past-time), there's no way he doesn't care about Asuka's condition. Further proof: He has a temper tantrum and tries to destory NERV after the battle. Shinji cares.

Second, to assume that because the movie doesn't contain a scene that clearly shows Shinji inquiring about Asuka after the fight, he doesn't care about her, is illogical. A movie doesn't show every moment of every character's life. This is the only way a storyline can contain twists. 2.0 is really fast-paced. Maybe there was no time for another Shinji-stares-into-space-in-a-train scene. Maybe it was left out because the creators didn't expect people to question Shinji's capacity for empathy, maybe it was left out for strategic reasons, or maybe it was left out by pure mistake.

Finally, Asuka is a skank bitch. She treats Shinji like crap, and she even treats his lady friend Rei like crap. Actually, she treats everyone like crap. I don't have anything against Asuka, but if Shinji really didn't give a flying fuck about her livelihood, why would that upset you?

[Azathoth]

First, unless Shinji is some heartless monster (heartless monsters don't cry, and we all know that's a Shinji past-time), there's no way he doesn't care about Asuka's condition. Further proof: He has a temper tantrum and tries to destory NERV after the battle. Shinji cares.

About himself, maybe. Shinji whines that Gendou tried to kill Asuka with his hands, and then later he whines about Gendou trying to replace him with the dummy plug. If NGE Shinji was more concerned with his own self-centered guilt than with reality, Rebuild Shinji is obsessed with it. The blood-on-hands scene is a fairly obvious piece of symbolism, yet it's truly not accurate, but a coloration of events by Shinji himself. Shinji did not kill Asuka (or badly injure her, or whatever), and he even seems to know it, the way his manner of referring to her switches back and forth from talking about her like someone who's alive ("tried to kill Asuka") to talking about her like someone who's dead ("no one to smile with anymore"). As foolish as it was of him to refuse to fight, he had no way of knowing what was going to happen next and was utterly horrified when he realized what was going on (although mostly for the wrong reasons). Yet Shinji wants to believe that Asuka is dead and that it's his dad's fault, because that would give him a reason to hate his dad even more. And he wants to believe that it's his fault, too, because it gives him a reason to hate himself still more.

Rebuild Shinji faces most of the same issues as NGE Shinji (and either incarnation of Gendou, for that matter). He just confronts them in a way more dickish way.

Second, to assume that because the movie doesn't contain a scene that clearly shows Shinji inquiring about Asuka after the fight, he doesn't care about her, is illogical. A movie doesn't show every moment of every character's life.

Oh, come on. This is one of the oldest, dumbest arguments in film. A film shows what's important to get its point across. Apparently, Anno feels that we saw all the important parts of Shinji's reaction to what happened. If he'd wanted us to assume that Shinji was interested in finding out what really happened to Asuka, he would have put such a scene in the movie.

I've always been baffled by why Anno cut from the end of the Unit 03 battle straight to Shinji's Geofront Boogie. I guess that was how the episodes broke in the show, but in the movie, it's more than a little non-sequitur. How did he get back into the Geofront if he was shrieking about how mad he was all the way down? Wouldn't they knock him out earlier? How did he even get on top of the pyramid; don't the elevators go right back into the Eva cages? Are they still trying to clear up Matsushiro and cart the Unit 03 splatter away while this is happening? What exactly is Shinji trying to do, just lash out randomly at things? Wasn't there plenty of shit on the surface for him to fuck up?

Irritatingly, the lack of a scene explaining this also forces us to assume that nothing emotionally meaningful took place during that time. If there was, we'd get to see it.

[Shogo-Kun]

And this is why Anno said "Anime fans and the people who make them need to have more self respect and come back to reality"!! Maybe the lot of you should take this to heart!

[Lucretius]

And this is why Anno said "Anime fans and the people who make them need to have more self respect and come back to reality"!! Maybe the lot of you should take this to heart!

Er, you could say this about every single thread on egf. Once you've registered on an anime message board, you've lost the right toi make complaints like this. :P

[Shogo-Kun]

Er, you could say this about every single thread on egf. Once you've registered on an anime message board, you've lost the right toi make complaints like this. :P

I'm just appalled by everyone's reaction to Shinji in Rebuild! I mean, try looking at things from his perspective: he lost his mom, his dad abandoned him, he has grown up socially and emotionally starved, and now he has to pilot a giant f**king robot that has the soul of his mom (not sure yet) and is a freaking monster!!!

I'm in a class about interpersonal communication and I can see where Shinji is coming from! He wants affirmation, to hear his father say that he's a good boy! He also wants that from others, too! He just doesn't know how to tell them, let alone express his emotions without serious damage. If any of them knew what I knew about human communication, they'd probably wouldn't be in the shit-fest they'll be in when 3.0 comes out! But alas, they're flawed.

I personally love Shinji in Rebuild. He's flawed, human, and sympathetic. But he doesn't drown you in it! I don't see what's the problem. I find him more easier to cheer for! If I was with Shinji, I'd be giving him more hugs than most people on the planet!

[Lucretius]

Like essel said earlier in this thread, I just think Shinji's issues are more...cartoonish in this film than in the corresponding episode. When Shinji gets jealous of the autopilot system, we've entered SNL pardoy territory.

[Shogo-Kun]

"Why does everybody hate me?"

[esselfortium]

"Why does everybody hate me?"

Because you don't read threads before complaining about them?

[Shogo-Kun]

1. I've read the thread, so that argument doesn't apply.
2. The joke was aimed at Shinji, not myself.

[esselfortium]

Okay then, Shinji, so everyone hates you because you're more concerned about your dad not liking you than you are about the person you just horribly disfigured.