Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0 SPOILERS Discussion

[Tab]

Ok watching the end-cam. Be back in half an hour probably raving and likely not very emotionally okay.

Also very sleep deprived so hell yea this gonna be a trip.

Thoughts a minute in: Starts at the very beginning of Zeruel. The quality is terrible but if any translators in any capacity could script up subtitle text for this, I could mux them in and we should make it happen. Get ahold of me on AIM if you are capable and interested (profile). I will do cleanup, scaling, and perspective correction meanwhile.

Five minutes in and HOLY FK.

Eight minutes in and Rei is about to be lunch and I am about to have bricks in my pants. Cam is stationary so cleanup and masking out obstructions will be decidedly easier.

Nine minutes and hell yes Thanatos BGM. Everything but 'Eba' is moonspeak to me. Mutilated Unit 02 head at 9:50 takes me back to EoE. No watermelon/breast puns, Anno I am disappoint. Shinji running like hell, almost as if from bees. WHY YOU DO THIS YUI just happened. Sorry Soth, your Engrish with that one was funny to me.

"I am the pilot of Evangelion Unit 01, Shinji Ikari!" I haven't forgotten all my moonlanguage. Frame for frame with episode 19 as Shinji intercepts Zeruel. Literally. Characters' facial expressions are 100% the same as the series right now. Having deja vu.

13 minutes and SHIT JUST GOT REAL. You know things are bad when The Beast II starts playing. The stuff of awesome nightmares being implanted into my visual system about now. And here it is for you too: http://tab.command-q.org/img/?M=D (neversleepagain1 through 3)
No direct link cause pretty sure that is not legit as far as mods are concerned, correct me if wrong.

Misato: something like "THIS IS VERY BAD, Shinji!"

Really, really wish I knew what Ritsuko was saying right now. She is getting a lot of dialogue and the children's song is playing. Agree with previous opinions that it seems a bit out of place, and really want to see the use of the other song during the Bardiel battle. Shinji exorcising Rei. Expecting bricks again shortly. Music ever so slightly reminding me of Komm, süsser Tod. Rei is naked and this makes no sense right now. For those asking how Shinji pulling Rei out of Zeruel made any sense in the way of physical, spatial reality, it doesn't. Rei has the audio player in her hand as she is pulled into Unit 01. Finally some Kaji. Still no melon jokes.

I can barely see due to overloaded brightness, but Shinji and Rei talking in Unit 01 is very reminiscent of the sea of LCL scenes towards the end of Instrumentality. They are embracing, not speaking face to face. Mari is just chilling down below with some blood on her face and casually observing, despite having the living hell beat out of her ten minutes ago.

Shot of Lillith, but she is just chilling too. Unit 01 now has a Sachiel face. Misato^H^H^H^H^H^HRitsuko (was a bit hard for me to differentiate the Japanese VA at first listen) just told us the Third Impact is happening. Roll credits. Someone in the theater just audibly farted. I wish I were joking.

Kaworu's scene is twenty seconds tops. The very minimum of what has been reported. 01 gets lance'd, he descends, and says some moonspeak. The end.

Trailer is nothing to get too happy about. Asuka's patch is on her left eye.

And that's a wrap.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I loved the fact how the music seemed KST-ish. Also, the Rei and Shinji hug scene gave me LCL Sea vibes, too.

Like I mentioned before, I really feel Mari's insanity with piloting can't compare to Asuka's. Mari just literally seems insane with it, while Asuka wasn't that bad save for EoE where she and Kyoko tore shit up together.

And as also mentioned before, Gendo is trying to weaken Shinji for Instrumentality reasons, I can feel it...

[Tab]

I loved the fact how the music seemed KST-ish. Also, the Rei and Shinji hug scene gave me LCL Sea vibes, too.

I got End vibes from a lot of it, and I'm not really sure if that was intentional on the part of the producers. Absolutely a totally different experience from episode 19, which is part of what made the scene-for-scene interlude (how bad is it when you are able to call Shinji beating the lights out of Zeruel a relatively tame interlude) so bizarre.

My system is crashing down because of being awake for over a day, but I need to think on the idea of 3I without Lillith. It nearly didn't enter my mind save for that non-sequitur "oh and notice this, bitch" shot of her just hanging in the midst of the initiation.

Could Zeruel theoretically act as a substitute for Adam during 3I? Could Unit 01 substitute Lillith? What sort of outcome would that produce? It's a massively different Third Impact scenario from End of Eva, for sure. We need Ritsuko's dialogue translated.

[Synapsid]

And as also mentioned before, Gendo is trying to weaken Shinji for Instrumentality reasons, I can feel it...

Hm, well there certanly is more to his approval of R/S than him just being into twincest...although I'm not certain how Shinji fusing with Rei is a prerequisite for his 3I

Could Zeruel theoretically act as a substitute for Adam during 3I? Could Unit 01 substitute Lillith? What sort of outcome would that produce? It's a massively different Third Impact scenario from End of Eva, for sure. We need Ritsuko's dialogue translated.

It looks like it could, Rei provided the spirit and Yui herself is a fragment from Lilith, And Zer could serve as Adam's body...but I'm not sure how it would work without Adam's spirit.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Sorry if I already mentioned this (gah) but I felt that Shinji piloting Eva during the Zer scene after Yui started up Eva again was a combination of Yui and Shinji fighting as one/Shinji becoming one with Eva.

Oh and I might be able to translate what's being said, but I can't make any promises due to the quality. If I can, I'll post here.

[Tab]

It looks like it could, Rei provided the spirit and Yui herself is a fragment from Lilith, And Zer could serve as Adam's body...but I'm not sure how it would work without Adam's spirit.

Adam's spirit was not present in EoE. Kaworu got capped prior, his spirit just flew off to etherland as far as I can see.
Regarding Yui being a fragment of Lillth, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Yui was fully human. Rei was cloned from her, but hosts Lilith's soul. Unit 01 was cloned from Lilith, but hosts Yui's soul. So I suppose when you think about it that way, Rei joining with Unit 01 is essentially reuniting the body and soul of both Lilith and Yui, independently.

[Synapsid]

Um, yes I have a habit of using Yui interchangeably with Shogouki since it seems to be her body...sorry. And you're right it may have had something to do with joining Rei with part of her body.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Adam's spirit was not present in EoE. Kaworu got capped prior, his spirit just flew off to etherland as far as I can see.

Yes it was present. The fact Kaworu appears to Shinji means Gendo was able to fuse Adam's soul into the embryo after Kaworu died.

[Tab]

Info in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelion_2.0#Plot from the parts I've seen is way, way off. Not going to edit it myself, but someone who understands the language better may want to.

I disagree that Kaworu's manifestation within Lilith is a result of Adam's soul, and feel rather that it is Lilith appearing to Shinji in a form which he will release his AT Field to as she does with everyone else on earth shortly after. But this is one of those things that nobody is ever going to be able to say with certainty. I simply don't see room or necessity for Adam's soul to have somehow been caught and incorporated. "The holy union between Adam and Lilith" line raises the question, but it could also simply be referring to flesh. Plus, one would assume that if Adam, even in fetal form, were to inherit his own soul again, he would spring forth with life as Lilith does after receiving her soul once more from Rei.

[Reichu]

Further discussion of Adam-soul-in-EoE should go into the Discussion Forest, need it be said. (You can probably find preexisting discussions without too much work, as well.)

The idea that Evas have a bunch of control rods embedded in their flesh is silly IMHO

OH YES, MY WORD YES. The pylons never made much sense (how do these things pinned on an Eva's shoulders hold back her power, exactly?), but this is simply ridiculous.

However I think that Eva 02 going into "Beast Mode" may have been the equivalent of the Eva 01 awesome-I-has-Zeruel-nom-nom-nom in Rebuild. Both of them act very animal like (walking on all fours) and reveal to the audience that "Holy fuckin' shit they're not just piloting robots.

Some differences:

- The "control rods" are terribly robot-like...
- Eva-01 just sort of broke out of her armor and acted funny. Eva-02... uh... changed her whole ANATOMICAL CONFIGURATION. ("By the power of Zool... turn this Eva into a dog!")
- Mari was in control of Eva-02, in her own batshit crazy way. You know, piloting. What you do with giant robots and all. Eva-01 was totally out of everybody's control (except, well, you-know-who's), so sayeth Ritsuko.

I'm surely just an old fuddy-duddy, but, for all its limitations, Eva-01's awakening in episode 19 is one of my favorite scenes in the show, and it gives me the chills, in the best possible way. I seriously would have had a nearly fatal nerdgasm if they had reinvigorated it with an actual budget. Anno truly hates me with all his being, to turn that scene into an apocalyptic WAFF-fest.

[AnnieZ]

... and Zeruel acquired some estrogen.. i pity him, i really do.

[ItsThatGuy]

... and Zeruel acquired some estrogen.. i pity him, i really do.

I thought the Angels were female. If that's not the case, then why are those Apostle figures female?

[Tab]

I thought the Angels were female. If that's not the case, then why are those Apostle figures female?

Some are classified as female (Sachiel) and some male (Tabris, obviously), but I don't know the specifics for each one.

[Synapsid]

Anno truly hates me with all his being, to turn that scene into an apocalyptic WAFF-fest.

Um, Anno lurks around EGF every now and then so he knew just where to hit when trolling...

Um,and you don't suppose Kyoko's soul is hiding and that makes it easy to hijack her?

... and Zeruel acquired some estrogen.. i pity him, i really do.

But they've already got plenty of LCL and it's estrogenic Sorry, sorry don't mind me.

Um, I though Shamshel was female, And we've got a section on that... If you can realy define what male and female is.

[schismatics]

Eva-01 was totally out of everybody's control (except, well, you-know-who's), so sayeth Ritsuko.

Ah. My lack of knowledge concerning the Japanese language is deplorable. ;)

Yay Ritsuko explaining stuff!!

[Reichu]

I thought the Angels were female.

We don't really know what they are. Some of the Angels have "fanonical" genders, anyway; Zeruel is often regarded as masculine.

If that's not the case, then why are those Apostle figures female?

They were genetically engineered or something. (Never mind that the Angels' physical forms aren't determined by DNA...)

Ah. My lack of knowledge concerning the Japanese language is deplorable.

Just for the record, I'm talking about #19, since that's what Dog-02 was being compared to. I dunno what Ritsuko's talking about in 2.0; only watched the clip once and haven't made any attempt to find out what the dialogue is.

Um,and you don't suppose Kyoko's soul is hiding and that makes it easy to hijack her?

What with Asuka in 03, as well, there's something funny going on (relative to our expectations).

[schismatics]

Ah. My lack of knowledge concerning the Japanese language is deplorable.

Just for the record, I'm talking about #19, since that's what Dog-02 was being compared to. I dunno what Ritsuko's talking about in 2.0; only watched the clip once and haven't made any attempt to find out what the dialogue is.

Ahh.

[Tab]

One last thing before I ship off for a long sleep, probably dominated by Eva dreams thanks to being so steep into this for the past 24 hours:

When I first read the bit about Third Impact happening, my pants needed to be swapped out for every conceivable reason that one might need that to happen.

Looking back on it now, it's not as phenomenal. When you think about things that really ought have been done differently in the series, and also things that, when put on the big screen, could have stood to be amplified, the way that Gainax handled the end of episode 19 is a big sore thumb. It's reminiscent of the Haruhi plotline, in a way, and I don't like to admit that I am knowledgeable enough on the subject to make that analogy. But what I'm getting at is that all of a sudden Unit 01 is now free from Nerv's restraints and equal to a god to boot, ... and then she's bandaged up in cryostasis. It makes for possibly a more logical flow for something like Third Impact to (begin to) happen at that juncture than, well, simply nothing. In fact if it would have fit into the overall flow of the series for Kaworu to be introduced at that moment, I would venture to say that the ending displayed here offers a complete solution to the mystery of "ok and how Eva 01 go from rampaging the countryside free of any control to bottled up inside Nerv?" and would have fit in quite well in the original series.

Just something that popped to mind a few minutes ago that I can't believe wasn't more obvious, suppose just the shock of the plot change that needed to set in.

Now I sleep for a long time.

[Reichu]

The 19-20 transition has always been problematic. We've busted on it for a long time.

Though, I wouldn't quite say that they've fixed the original problem; they changed what happens too much. And, I should note, the "buildup to something really bad + abrupt and anticlimactic abortion of expectations" thing is still there. There's just lots of WAFF, high-budget fireworks, and singing children this time, plus you get the satisfaction (?) of seeing Eva-01's lights forcibly put out.

In NGE, you sort of have to assume that Yui turns herself in ("got my S2, released some of my pent-up frustrations, time to go back to the pit and wait some more"), since it's really the only thing that has a chance of working. Would have been awfully nice if they at least showed that happen instead of leaving a narrative black hole between the two episodes, but...

[Sammaeloo]

The thing I can't wrap my head around it why they decided to have Zeruel's body turn into a giant naked Rei. It would have been better in my opinion if after he ate Unit-00, Zeruel transformed into a form that resembled the classic one. With the bony shoulder armor, but with all those tentacles coming out of the shoulders with their color turning silver/grey, and clawed pillar-like feet while keeping the new one's bigger size.