Amazon Prime's English Dub (General)

[weeminator24]

I only watched the dub of Shin and I wasn’t too impressed. The script itself didn’t bother me much but the performances all sounded off too me with the exception of Shinji and Asuka. Everybody else sounded like they were just reading from a page instead of acting. I liked John Swasey’s hammy performance as Gendo, although probably for the wrong reasons lol

[Ah Q]

I know this is heresy, but I've never been the biggest fan of Tiffany Grant's Asuka.

That said, I think she did a decent job in 3.0+1.0.

[penguintruth]

I know this is heresy, but I've never been the biggest fan of Tiffany Grant's Asuka.

That said, I think she did a decent job in 3.0+1.0.

I echo this. I've never really liked Grant's Asuka, but she is amazing in that scene toward the end when Asuka talks about her past.

[Ah Q]

I echo this. I've never really liked Grant's Asuka, but she is amazing in that scene toward the end when Asuka talks about her past.

Now I'm watching the Amazon dub of 2.0 with Tiffany Grant. Still not a fan of Tiffany's take on Asuka, overall. Never really understood why so many people were losing it when Netflix chose another voice actor.

[RebornZombie]

It is worth nothing that AFAIK the audio-swapping was only done with Asuka's dub. But everyone in the dub is holding back and I can't see beyond the circumstances of recording remotely for a reason.

SPOILER: Show

Shinji sobbing on the bridge after chatting with Rei doesn't sound like Spike either.

[gatotsu911]

The common denominator between all of them is Khara and their perceived clout ever since Shin Godzilla deals were being made between Khara and Toho.

Curious on your sources about this being Godzilla-related? My understanding is that all this drama about the localization started when (due in part to a series of cultural misunderstandings) Anno flipped out at Funimation over 3.33’s dub, made them redo the dub and subs from scratch, and demanded every subsequent official English translation be policed by Dan Kanemitsu for absolute word-for-word “accuracy”. This was a couple years before Shin Godzilla even came out.

It’s a little like what happened with Hideo Kojima after Metal Gear Solid: word got through to him that Jeremy Blaustein had taken liberties with the Japanese script in localizing the PSX version of the game, which led to Kojima firing Blaustein and the Gamecube remake of MGS1 using a completely new translations that’s generally regarded as much drier and more literal than Blaustein’s PSX version script.

Monolingual creators, particularly Japanese ones, have a tendency to be naive about the complexities of translation. Very often they think it just works like Google Translate, where you can punch in a script and get a perfectly “accurate” translation without having to worry about the nuances and ambiguities of context, tone, idiom, and other factors that impact how native speakers of a language actually perceive it. (Michael House, Gainax’s token English-speaking guy prior to Kanemitsu, confirms that this ignorance about translation very much applies to the monolingual Anno.)

Add all of this together and you get Dan Kanemitsu - presumably under direction from Anno - translating Evangelion’s script and backseat-directing the dubbing for “maximum accuracy” like he’s dealing with a series of dry scientific documents. That works out fine for all the military speak and technobabble and lore-blast exposition dumps, but turns out disastrous for the scenes where characters are supposed to be talking like ordinary human beings - which, for Evangelion, are kinda the way more important scenes!!

I honestly don’t know who deserves more blame between him and Anno either, because the way Kanemitsu’s scripts (for both subtitles and dubs) oscillate from stilted word-for-word literalism to highly interpretive bits that are blatantly not the literal meaning of the Japanese (“worthy of my grace” being the most infamous example) or tonally inappropriate American slang and idioms (I will never be okay with Rei Ayanami spontaneously using the phrase “warm and fuzzy” to describe anything, ever) occasionally verges on being so straight-up amateurish it’s like reading a candy-colored fansub from the early 2000s. I think it might just be the case that he’s a dubious translator (at least for scripts and fiction!) receiving dubious direction. His translations are (possibly?? assuming they really are “accurate”) helpful for mechanically clarifying plot points and subtext, but boy are they a savage blow to Eva’s literary appeal as a piece of fiction.

All I can say is, thank god the GKIDS release of the original series is including the Platinum dub and subs.

[Italyzpizza]

I mean, who'da thunk that the Platinum dub would be included in the mix?

[gatotsu911]

Well the fact that they reversed course on the dub cast for Amazon was a strong hint that the Netflix dub did not go over well, but the fact that the Amazon translations are still Kanemitsu’d to hell suggests Khara themselves still aren’t fully clear as to why.

My understanding is that Khara owns the rights to all previous dub and subtitle tracks. They requested that Netflix record a new dub for “accuracy”, but it isn’t clear whether they specified that Netflix do so using a new cast or if they simply went along with it. Either way, someone somewhere (possibly at Khara) became aware of the generally negative fan reception to the Netflix dub, thus the Amazon dubs doubled back on not just bringing back the main actors but as much of the ADV/Manga cast as possible, while still retaining the same Kanemitsu-led translation process as every other English-language Eva release since 3.33. Now the GKIDS set includes the ADV/Manga dub and subs, which may or may not have anything to do with the fact that fans have bombarded their social media with requests for the original translations since the moment they announced the BD set. (The fact that they announced upfront on their webpage that they failed to license “Fly Me to the Moon” is also interesting and means they are at least aware of the negative responses to the Netflix release.)

Also holy shit, I just saw the post about Tiffany Grant going off on Kanemitsu. That is pretty nuts, but also pretty plausible given what was already known about his involvement with English translation from 3.33 onwards. I get wanting to preserve a vision but “Third Boy” and “You’re an idiot, aren’t you?” (which is a perfect example of a line that’s technically grammatically correct but definitively worse as spoken English dialogue than the more localized ADV equivalent) sure is an asinine hill to die on.

This also further begs the question of how many of Kanemitsu’s decisions actually come from Anno and how many are his own ideas and interpretations of the text (e.g. “leftist terrorists”, “worthy of my grace”) that he’s just been given a blank check by Anno to enforce? Why are we trusting someone who doesn’t understand or care about the nuances of spoken English to translate a text that’s rife with ambiguity and insinuation?

btw, I don’t know if this is common knowledge but Kanemitsu also translated the official booklets included in Funimation’s Rebuild 1-3 releases. They’re even heavier on stilted ESL-like ultra-literalism, sometimes to the point of being barely coherent, and they debuted the confusing “Third Boy”/“First Girl” terminology even though the Funimation dub and sub scripts didn’t use it.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

SPOILER: Show

The common denominator between all of them is Khara and their perceived clout ever since Shin Godzilla deals were being made between Khara and Toho.

Curious on your sources about this being Godzilla-related? My understanding is that all this drama about the localization started when (due in part to a series of cultural misunderstandings) Anno flipped out at Funimation over 3.33’s dub, made them redo the dub and subs from scratch, and demanded every subsequent official English translation be policed by Dan Kanemitsu for absolute word-for-word “accuracy”. This was a couple years before Shin Godzilla even came out.

True, true. Honestly, I have no sources for this. (Though, I do know that Toho was offering their Godzilla IP to Anno shortly after 3.0’s release.) My thinking is only that, if the nation’s largest movie studio offered their most popular IP to Anno’s studio, that would be enough for Khara to be a bit more strict about their “p”s and “q”s than they had been. At least, it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the case.

Unfortunately, a lot of this is gonna be protected by non disclosure agreements, regardless of how it came about. I’ve heard conflicting reports from Khara and Funimation about the exact nature of the original 3.0 dub. (Funi claimed in an industry panel at a convention they they had initiated the delay by reaching out to Khara themselves.) So we’re probably not gonna get any finer details unless somebody spills the beans anonymously.

[gatotsu911]

Somebody has spilled the beans anonymously. Granted, it’s hard to place much trust in an anonymous SomethingAwful poster, but right now it’s the only semi-plausible account out there and the details/timeline add up. This might additionally explain some of the Netflix/Kanemitsu translation’s… unorthodox choices regarding Shinji/Kaworu dialogue.

If you’re curious to see what the first Funimation dub actually was like, there’s about half an hour of camrip footage still out there on Youtube to this day. Spoilers: it really isn’t much different from their handling of the previous two films. It is very plausible that Khara’s freakout was based on a misunderstanding of US audience response to a deliberately polarizing film (and the highly vocal, drunk nature of US con culture.

[Jayfive]

That post on SA has been partially debunked. There was a showing of the 3.0 dub where people were laughing at Karowu’s lines and someone was present from Khara but it wasn’t in Baltimore.

[gatotsu911]

I remember hearing it was at Anime Expo (CA), which is usually the US con where Japanese industry reps show up, but Otakon is big enough that it’s conceivable at least.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I remember it being Otakon where Funi claimed the delay was a result of them reaching out to Khara for accuracy, and not Khara’s displeasure in Funi’s first Q dub. While I find that claim dubious at best, the whole situation just feels weird and came out of nowhere, even to this day. I don’t remember there being any Khara representatives visiting cons or theatrical screening for Jo or Ha, so even the presence of a representative for Q makes me think Khara was expanding their control after completing production of Eva 3.0. Months later, Khara would announce their partnership with Toho to create a Godzilla movie, and I can’t help but think that the two events were linked. The only think that makes me doubt that line of thinking is Funi still being able to license Shin Godzilla, even though their licensing for NTE seems to be expired at this point.

[dzzthink]

Overall, the performances were great and I really appreciated this new dub. It's really nostalgic revisiting the series again with the same voices but slightly different direction. I'm not able to tell direct differences from the earlier versions but overall, I did not feel disengaged with the mood and momentum of the movies.

I watched the final movie with the Japanese dub first before the English dub and obviously felt a greater resonance with the English dub. However, with my first couple of viewings, I noticed a few inconsistencies during key moments in the film that I felt were a bit off.

There are actually differences in the translations for when kid Shinji says to Kaworu: "let's do this hoping we'd get along" and when Rei said something similar to Shinji when he was depressed and sitting by the ledge. The English interpretation sounds a bit cringy (like a UN diplomat trying to negotiate a peace treaty) and I didn't know they were referring to the act of the handshake when first hearing this. Based on the subtitles and other translations (https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/eva-3-0 ... ation-pt-1), it would have been better translated with: "This is what people do when they want to be friends", or something sweeter since this represents the importance of human interactions and symbols of friendship for those who are in need of it or when reaching out to others. In some translations, it's even "This is a magic trick/spell people use to keep close/build bridges/bind together".

In the English dub, when Shinji is speaking to Asuka on the beach during instrumentality, Shinji says "I liked you too", then very quickly, "goodbye Asuka". She then feels embarrassed and turns away before Shinji states "give my regards to Kensuke". This is actually completely different in the Japanese dub in terms of timing, since Shinji first says "I liked you too", followed by Asuka turning around, then "goodbye Asuka, give my regards to Kensuke". This is a much better send-off and resolution within their relationship, which doesn't feel as though Shinji is immediately telling Asuka "see you later forever, I don't care about your feelings".

[Konja7]

When kid Shinji says to Kaworu: "let's do this hoping we'd get along" this is actually a reference to when Rei said something similar to Shinji when he was depressed and sitting by the ledge. However, it sounds a bit cringy (sounds like a UN diplomat negotiating a peace treaty) and I didn't know they were referring to the act of the handshake when first hearing this. Based on the subtitles and other translations (https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/eva-3-0 ... ation-pt-1), it would have been better translated with "This is what people do when they want to be friends", or something sweeter since this represents the importance of human interactions and symbols of friendship for those who are in need of it or when reaching out to others.

Yeah. This is also something that Rei Q learned in Village-3 (from Class Rep).

So, this also represents the kindness Shinji found in Village 3.

[gatotsu911]

Sure would be nice if they could convey the symbolism without resorting to dialogue so artificial and stilted in its target language that it barely even registers as human communication! But then that’s a translation problem, not a dub problem…

Honestly, before accusing Dan Kanemitsu of word-for-word literalism I gotta bring up how jarring and inappropriate it is to see Rei Ayanami use the English idiom “warm and fuzzy” to refer to anything ever. This is present in the subtitles, not just the dub!

[Konja7]

Honestly, before accusing Dan Kanemitsu of word-for-word literalism I gotta bring up how jarring and inappropriate it is to see Rei Ayanami use the English idiom “warm and fuzzy” to refer to anything ever. This is present in the subtitles, not just the dub!

Well, Rei says "pokapoka", which meaning is "warm and nice". So, it seems close to that.

[gatotsu911]

“Warm and fuzzy” is an idiom considered so hackneyed and cloying that it is almost never used unironically by native English speakers.

Funimation translated the same dialogue as “warm inside”, which conveys the intended meaning without the unintentionally comedic phrasing. It’s just another example of what can happen when a translator is linguistically but not culturally fluent in their target language.

[silvermoonlight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqbRIZGU5yY

Tiffany talking a little about the dubbing.

[BernardoCairo]

SPOILER: Show

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