A thought in tandem with loop/sequel/prequel theory

[ChaddyManPrime]

Instrumentality has always failed, always. The souls never permanently fuse into a single consciousness. There's no threat from it, no characters have ever stayed in the collective.

Like what the fuck? No one finds the idea enticing? There should be like multiple hive mind god beings running around doing shit.

[Konja7]

In Rebuild, the Instrumentality seems to give Shinji the power to do anything he wants with the world.

Seele wants the collective mind, but this seems to be only one of the many options for Instrumentality.

In 3.0+1.0, Shinji seems to use the Instrumentality power to erase the Evas and recover the world.

Shinji tell Rei 2 that he won't bring time back. This implied that the Instrumentality can allow him to change the past (and I suspect that was Kaworu's plan in 3.0).

[ChaddyManPrime]

Getting rid of the Evas is bad idea, leaves the earth defenseless. He should have gotten rid of the FAR, or Adam and Lilith, they're the threat.

Were AT fields maintained in 3.0 + 1.0

[FXArmaros98]

Getting rid of the Evas is bad idea, leaves the earth defenseless. He should have gotten rid of the FAR, or Adam and Lilith, they're the threat.

Unfortunately we don't know if the FAR still exist in the Rebuild world or if they existed after leaving the Angels and all that hyper-technological shit on our planet that practically unleashed the plot of the films,I think that the creation of the new world as well as the ending was a deliberately ambiguous scenes, Shinji may have also wiped what remained of the Adams, Lilith and the Angels from existence.However I must have to admit that I am sorry that even the Rebuilds ended without Shinji having a meeting with the Aliens Progenitors/Gods creators of the Angels, of the spears and of us human beings

I hope that some clarity on the FAR (Rebuild) could be made maybe in the future game for the PS5 in a similar way to that of the PS2 for NGE but I doubt that such a thing will come anytime soon.

[Axx°N N.]

Wasn't the "those who want to return will" statement sort of alluding to the idea some wouldn't want to? Seele is turned to goo like everyone else, surely they're living it up as a hivemind and reject any offer of return?

[DantesInferno]

In Rebuild, the Instrumentality seems to give Shinji the power to do anything he wants with the world.

Seele wants the collective mind, but this seems to be only one of the many options for Instrumentality.

In 3.0+1.0, Shinji seems to use the Instrumentality power to erase the Evas and recover the world.

Shinji tell Rei 2 that he won't bring time back. This implied that the Instrumentality can allow him to change the past (and I suspect that was Kaworu's plan in 3.0).

I liked how Rei II had super-long hair: Asuka earlier in the movie foreshadowed that, even though the Lilin+ don’t age, somehow hair alone still grows. And Rei II has been inside Unit-01 for a full 14 years!

However, it’s still weird since she hasn’t been “physically” there all along: like Shinji, she apparently was dissolved into LCL within the core and had to be “salvaged” (in NGE parliance), otherwise Ritsuko would have been lying when she said only Shinjki and the S-DAT where recovered. Ritsuko even mentions in Q that Shinji had been “100% restored to his state at the time of N3I”, or something along those lines.

[ChaddyManPrime]

Wasn't the "those who want to return will" statement sort of alluding to the idea some wouldn't want to? Seele is turned to goo like everyone else, surely they're living it up as a hivemind and reject any offer of return?

That's the point of what I'm saying, there should be multiple hive minds running around.

Unless the resets unfuse everyone and there are not multiple copies of the same souls.

Like the entire main cast came back, but what about everyone else? Like Yui's still in Unit 01 possibly and never left.

Also, the entire main cast came back? Like come on.

[writer]

In Rebuild, the Instrumentality seems to give Shinji the power to do anything he wants with the world.

I'd argue that Instrumentality always had that capability, that's why we see Shinji flickering through realities as he experiments with what he truly wants in episodes 25-26 of EvaTV. In fact, Instrumentality not only allows Shinji to re-write reality, but also gives him the chance to modify his decision after he's seen the results. In the end it's about a scenario he believes is correct based on not only his will but the combined will of everyone he cares about.

It's possible that all of these realities actually do exist; a world of tang, a world of happiness, a real world, etc. But the world that Shinji chooses as his end result is the only one we see, because we are following him and the people around him through this experience.

[Zusuchan]

Uh, we know there's a loop in NTE, but last I checked, there's no knowledge of it being more than a loop within NTE and there's no hints about sequel/prequel stuff. So, uh, I'm not entirely sure what the argument here is.

[Arcadia's legacy]

Is it a loop though?, Does Kaworu actually travel backwards in time with each death?

[writer]

There are multiple Kaworu's that are dispatched based on events that occur, namely to Shinji. This is clearly evidenced by the coffins on the moon. He is a tool to be used at the appropriate time to guide Shinji into Instrumentality.

[Zusuchan]

I mean, I guess it's a loop, based on what I know. I haven't seen the film and I'm weak with lore stuff, so I don't know, really. But if there's any loop business, I think it won't be anything more literal than a loop within NTE only and anything more than that is entering into some meta territory.

[Arcadia's legacy]

That doesn't sound like a loop to me. More like different Kaworu's active at different points on a straight timeline

[FXArmaros98]

Uh, we know there's a loop in NTE, but last I checked, there's no knowledge of it being more than a loop within NTE and there's no hints about sequel/prequel stuff

From what I've seen from the spoilers I'd say that the loop is like such a meta-narrative sequel from the point of view of Kaworu, Shinji and the viewers. These 2 scenes show that in the Instrumentality Shinji, Rei and the spectators find themselves in front of a sort of cinema screen where in a quick sequence some scenes of NGE are shown.
https://i.imgur.com/AE6pd2h_d.webp?maxw ... lity=grand
https://i.imgur.com/oKMNnQz_d.webp?maxw ... lity=grand

From what I've read in the translated scripts Shinji tells Kaworu something like this: I've already come here several times and I remember you when Kaworu mentions something about their many interactions between the loops happens thanks to this Book of Life as he calls it.
Here is the link for the translated scripts https://cassland.org/words/tl.rtf

I think everything has been made ambiguous just to let the various viewers decide if the connection between NGE and Rebuilds counts as Prequel and Sequel or as a simple meta narration.

[writer]

It is a continuous timeline, the only thing that's looping are the characters and events. So it's kinda like a contained loop that was started at 2I and plays out the events we see with slight variations based on the decisions made at the closing of 3I. There are so many elements at play (NERV, SEELE, WILLE, etc.) but it seems that the scenario is destined to end up with Shinji in control, since he was the first to recreate reality and is somewhat of a god in that respect, alongside Yui and Gendo who predetermined that role for him so that they could control Instrumentality through their offspring.

[Kendrix]

So we MIGHT read this like the scene where Madoka ascends & finally understands all the stuff Homura did for her.

Though wether it's a sequential timeloop, or just seeing alternate universes, who knows.

This is not just relevant for Kaworu tho like the beach scene looks like he's apologizing/making up for EoE. (also kinda makes more sense that way cause he wasn't that close to this 'verses Asuka.) & the similar callback with Rei ('thank you') where it seems he finally gets to repay her for her heroic sacrifice. (same could be said for Kaworu rly - remember that he meant to take the axe in all of their stead until Yui & Gendo decided that was their job)

Kaworus arc could be seen as a logical continuation - he was going to do the sacrifice thing but then it turned out he couldn't die.
Or, if you see it as separate this is the key difference between him & his series counterpart: He didn't have that option of choosing death if all else fails.
So he resigned himself as far as his hopes of freedom went & decided to do what he could to help Shinji & save the humans. Which is kinda noble & beautiful, he could've gone all Flowey / Monika, he has the power to do it - even with the caveat that it's something coming from a place of futility & desperation (oh he's secretly lonely & just wants ppl to cling to... that makes him the same as... every other main character. IDK why ppl see it as such an indictment really. Or well, similar lack of nuance comprehension has been applies to equivalent Misato & Shinji related sequences. )

I mean the note it ends from is Kaji saying something like, "You are released from that job now". the job of adam, the job of SEELE's impact button, the job o having to be the put-together one in the relationship, all of it.

you don't know what it means to me to get that shot of grownup Rei & kaworu just chilling in street clothes.

From what I've heard the finale has another ep 1 like "birds flying away" scene almost to make you think they'll have disappeared, but you can actually still see them standing there beyond the train's tinted window, still there, not going everywhere (except perhaps to some normal, train-accessible place)

That's such a huge contrast to Rei's last scene in EoE; I mean it's not wholly free of wriggle room especially since she's in the photograph in the "I want to see them again" sequence & didn't get a grave marker as per the script, but a common interpretation is that either she's dead-dead & this is her looking at the future from before Lillith fell apart, or she's now left in a godlike pseudoomnipresent existence - a bit like the end of "the last Unicorn" where Amalthea turned back into an immortal but is changed forever cause she had a human life.

I'm thinking of their respective best endings in EVa 2 - where Rei gets basically what ReiQ got (she runs off and decides to find a place she belongs even if she wont last long) and Kaworu gets this, 'he grabs all the EVAs/ angel-derives lifeforms & goes off to another planet' ending, which, is freer & less lethal than canonverse, but, still doing the job/ somewhat beholden to the fate that he & humanity can't be on the planet at once. He'd MUCH prefer farming with Kaji & co.