Shin Eva General: Reborn

[JoelcrNeto]

I don't know if this has been discussed here at some point, I just remembered it.

In 2.0, when Asuka is attacked by NTE!Bardiel, you can see a "female figure" in the background, and also a laughter from some girl.
Is it possible that this mysterious "female figure" is the original Shikinami?

Shot:

SPOILER: Show

"Female figure" from 2.0 CRC:

SPOILER: Show

AFAIK, this has always been a mystery. If that mysterious girl is the original Shikinami, it reminds me Rei I's creepy face in the original show.

[FXArmaros98]

@ JoelcrNeto very interesting observation, I congratulate you for thinking about such a detail, if it really were so then it means that maybe they intended to give us clues as to the fact that Asuka was a clone already before the release of 2.0, also in those storyboards not was even told that the voice telling Asuka that was not like her be happy was the Kaworu's voice, just to make things even more disturbing and ambiguous?

I found something that some people might be interested in https://ha-navi.com/mari-moyo

[brer rabbit]

SPOILER: Show

I don't know if this has been discussed here at some point, I just remembered it.

In 2.0, when Asuka is attacked by NTE!Bardiel, you can see a "female figure" in the background, and also a laughter from some girl.
Is it possible that this mysterious "female figure" is the original Shikinami?

Shot:
[spoiler]

"Female figure" from 2.0 CRC:

SPOILER: Show

AFAIK, this has always been a mystery. If that mysterious girl is the original Shikinami, it reminds me Rei I's creepy face in the original show.

[/spoiler]
I've looked at that picture many times but I couldn't find where the unknown "female figure" was... can someone help me out here?

Please do not quote entire posts, but only the parts most relevant to what you're going to say.
-Zusuchan

[Jayfive]

The face's right eye is in the middle of that cross. The mouth is by Asuka's shoulder.

[brer rabbit]

The face's right eye is in the middle of that cross. The mouth is by Asuka's shoulder.

Oh my God now I see it.

[Axx°N N.]

Anyone being mad at Shinji has always felt stupid to me, and Shin doesn't seem to do anything to alleviate that.

Why would someone get mad at Shinji and not the eldritch abomination he's piloting? By the internal logic and established plot of the Rebuilds up to that point, everyone seems aware that Eva Units have some sense of self, are unpredictable, and are beyond human physics. It's like blaming someone for buying a stove that has a dysfunction that ends up burning their house down. Shinji neither created nor even wanted to pilot the thing.

It doesn't even work in a "well, in real life people hate each other for stupid reasons" way, because we don't spend enough time with Sakura or Midori for it to make sense on a purely character level. It ends up as rushed, artificial conflict for conflict's sake.

ETA: Whoops, meant to post in response to a tangent in the fanart thread. I guess it fits here better anyway.

[Slowpokeking]

SPOILER: Show

Anyone being mad at Shinji has always felt stupid to me, and Shin doesn't seem to do anything to alleviate that.

Why would someone get mad at Shinji and not the eldritch abomination he's piloting? By the internal logic and established plot of the Rebuilds up to that point, everyone seems aware that Eva Units have some sense of self, are unpredictable, and are beyond human physics. It's like blaming someone for buying a stove that has a dysfunction and ends up burning their house down. Shinji neither created nor even wanted to pilot the thing.

It doesn't even work in a "well, in real life people hate each other for stupid reasons" way, because we don't spend enough time with Sakura or Midori for it to make sense on a purely character level. It ends up as rushed, artificial conflict for conflict's sake.

And it was Misato's idea to let him go. She got no reason to be cold to him in Q.

Please do not quote entire posts, but only the parts most relevant to what you're going to say.
-Zusuchan

[Konja7]

Why would someone get mad at Shinji and not the eldritch abomination he's piloting? By the internal logic and established plot of the Rebuilds up to that point, everyone seems aware that Eva Units have some sense of self, are unpredictable, and are beyond human physics. It's like blaming someone for buying a stove that has a dysfunction and ends up burning their house down. Shinji neither created nor even wanted to pilot the thing.

According to some reviews, there’s also the underlying theme of the villainy of selfishness (a theme pervasive in Japanese society).

There was an issue of selfishness when he saved Rei in 2.0. At that time, he was aware that this would cause problems, but he continued with his actions to save her.

And it was Misato's idea to let him go. She got no reason to be cold to him in Q.

Apparently, it is because she feels guilty about this decision that she is cold to him.

[Slowpokeking]

Apparently, it is because she feels guilty about this decision that she is cold to him.

Wut? Shouldn't she treat him nicely?

[Konja7]

Wut? Shouldn't she treat him nicely?

Misato feels guilty towards Shinji, because he is the only to be blamed (Misato feels she should be blamed too).

However, Misato also feels guilty towards the world too, because she supported Shinji in 2.0. So, she tried to mantain Shinji controlled in 3.0.

[Slowpokeking]

Misato feels guilty towards Shinji, because he is the only to be blamed (Misato feels she should be blamed too).

However, Misato also feels guilty towards the world too, because she supports Shinji. So, she tried to mantain Shinji controlled this time.

Then she should not blame him at all, that's totally out of her character.

It was not his fault, to save the world she needs everyone's power. The last thing she should do to Shinji was to treat him coldly instead of win his heart back with ease.

Also doesn't the the majority of the damage was done by other stuff, not Shinji's impact?

[Konja7]

Also doesn't the the majority of the damage was done by other stuff, not Shinji's impact?

I can say you that humans speak like the Near Third Impact is the worse thing that happened them in these 14 years.

There was a Third Impact stopped by Kaji, but no body mention this as a big deal.


In itself, it extremely unlikely Shinji isn't guilty of the world situation. In 3.0+1.0, a theme of the movie is accept the guilt.

Shinji being innocent will be against this argument.

[Slowpokeking]

I can say you that humans speak like the Near Third Impact is the worse thing that happened them in these 14 years.

There was a Third Impact stopped by Kaji, but no body mention this as a big deal.


In itself, it extremely unlikely Shinji isn't guilty of the world situation. In 3.0+1.0, a theme of the movie is accept the guilt.

Shinji being innocent will be against this argument.

Yes, and didn't official material stated that the majority of the damage was not caused by Shinji's impact but the later one which was caused by Mark-6? I don't think most of the ppl even know about Shinji caused a near Third Impact.

Also if Shinji didn't go, Third Impact would still happen. Misato is clear about that.

They should also put everything aside to deal with the current situation, that's what Misato's character should do, care about Shinji, not the opposite.

[Konja7]

Yes, and didn't official material stated that the majority of the damage was not caused by Shinji's impact but the later one which was caused by Mark-6? I don't think most of the ppl even know about Shinji caused a near Third Impact.

I'm pretty sure there isn't official material that state or confirm that. That seems to be just a theory trying to explain the situation in 3.0.

We also don't know what caused the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0. We only know Kaji sacrificed to stop it.

Wille people knows Shinji causes the Near Third Impact. Touji also knows about this, so it doesn't seem a secret (the Third Impact doesn't seem a secret either, since Keisuke knows about it).

Also if Shinji didn't go, Third Impact would still happen. Misato is clear about that.

If Shinji doesn't fight the Angels, the Third Impact would happened. This is recognized in 3.0+1.0

However, the "awakening" of Eva01 and the start of the Third Impact in 2.0 happened because he was trying to save Rei. That's why I mentioned the selfish issue.

[Slowpokeking]

I'm pretty sure there isn't official material that state or confirm that. That seems to be just a theory that people had trying to explain the situation in 3.0.

We also don't know what caused the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0. We only know Kaji sacrificed to stop it.

Wille people knows Shinji causes the Near Third Impact. Touji also knows about this.

Isn't it clear? if it was caused by Shinji, then those NERV members close would all become dust with no possibility to live.

The Third Impact was the real damage there, it was not Shinji's fault and WILLE ppl got no reason to blame him.

If Shinji doesn't fight the Angels, the Third Impact would happened. This is recognized in 3.0+1.0

However, the "awakening" of Eva01 and the start of the Third Impact in 2.0 happened because he was trying to save Rei. That's why I mentioned the selfish issue.

Misato also asked him to do so, so it's not wise to blame him at all. Again Shinji didn't cause the Third Impact. Without him the Angels would have destroyed the world anyway.

Nor does it fit Misato's character, or is it anything wise to do when they need to fight NERV using all the resources they could find.

If Mistao could show any emotion, Shinji would not have gone with that Rei.

[Konja7]

Isn't it clear? if it was caused by Shinji, then those NERV members close would all become dust with no possibility to live.

The Third Impact was the real damage there, it was not Shinji's fault and WILLE ppl got no reason to blame him.

We don't know what happened after 2.0. We only see that Kaworu prevented the Third Impact at that time, but we don't know what happened after that.

Also, Kaji stopped the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0. That's mentioned in the script of 3.0+1.0.

In 3.0, Kaworu said "EVA Unit 01 briefly awakened and opened the Doors of Guf, acting as the trigger of the Third Impact. Lilin calls that the Near-Third Impact". Maybe Wille blaming Shinji is related to that.


Regarding 3.0+1.0, I can only mention what it is say in the script. Humans speak as the Near Third Impact being the worst thing that happened to them.

[Pluto]

And it was Misato's idea to let him go. She got no reason to be cold to him in Q.

Apparently, it is because she feels guilty about this decision that she is cold to him.

Also doesn't the the majority of the damage was done by other stuff, not Shinji's impact?

I can say you that humans speak like the Near Third Impact is the worse thing that happened them in these 14 years.
There was a Third Impact stopped by Kaji, but nobody mentioned that this as a big deal.
In itself, it extremely unlikely Shinji isn't guilty of the world situation. In 3.0+1.0, a theme of the movie is accept the guilt.
Shinji being innocent will be against this argument.

Introduction
Sorry if this wasn't clear in a previous post and I actually left this part out of the third installment of my reactions thread and some of the things you mentioned above involving Shinji and everyone's behaviors in Q became clear to me when I translated the Ogata interview.

Misato's Guilt and Relevant Plot Details
In short, Misato's main guilt is that she couldn't die with Kaji when he sacrificed himself because she was pregnant. Instead, she took on the role of the leader of Wille, the organization that was founded by ex-Nerv personnel via a coup d'etat around the time of the third impact (Kohji mentions how the blue armbands of Wille were how they were able to identify their allies on a bridge scene). The guilt and remorse she faced given the death of Kaji caused her to continue his work of restoring the earth and ultimately led her to become the leader of Wille.

When she gives the order to let Shinji pilot eva in Shin, there's some drama at gunpoint with Midori and Sakura about how he's danger to everyone. I think the Near Third and Third Impact were two separate events. With the Near Third, the surrounding earth was turned to core (you can see this at the end of 2.0). Then Seele went about their plans without Shinji and started the Third Impact after 2.0. Kaji sacrificed himself to stop this impact. Here Misato explains to them that she gave the order to pilot eva and that Shinji is the reason they're all alive.

Upon viewing the film and various discussion with Japanese surrounding it, I did get out of it that Shinji was selfish for saving Rei as Misato didn't give the order to save Rei and things went bad from there. However, I didn't get a sense that Misato felt guilty for letting Shinji pilot the Eva.

The Theme of Growing Up and the Ogata Interview for Shin
In my article on the third viewing, I mainly talked about secondary themes in the film but I realize now that I didn't talk about the main theme of this movie: growing up.

In the Ogata interview, she talks about how in her role for Q, it's 14 years later and Shinji still has the heart of a 14 year old while it's apparent that everyone else has grown up and Shinji selfishly thinks if he can pull out some spears, the world will be saved.

She also mentions how the characters, their lives, and their roles have changed.

The key word here to explain Misato's behavior in Q is role.

Misato's Role

When I saw the film the first few times in the theatre and cried at the scene when Misato connects with Shinji, I was able to understand on visceral level why I felt that way, but it wasn't until the third time that I understood why I felt that way in terms of the plot, characters, and direction.

The key word again is Misato's role.

She's now the commander of Wille. She must accept responsibility for the entire crew of the Wunder, members of Wille, and Kredit. As a person in this leadership role, it is their duty to keep cool, neutral, calm, and collected during times of chaos, strive, and pressure. Think about how Commander Ikari and Fuyutsuki always kept their cool during NGE and NTE (regardless of what you think of them). Even more, (this came out of one of the conversations we had after the movie) that there is a Japanese image of a good leader who remains calm and neutral no matter what happens. Honestly, I think this can be abstracted to the universal case as well.

Remember how we see Misato in Q and Shin?

What don't we see?

We don't see her eyes (and her hair is covered by her captain's hat). The only inclination the we get in Q that she still has any shred of compassion for Shinji comes from the scene were she doesn't blow his head up with the DSS choker. However, I don't think Misato ever hated Shinji. She is now in the role of leader of Wille. She can't act friendly like that to him because of her role. What if she acted differently to Shinji than the rest of the Wille crew? What kind of problems would that cause for her in the role of captain? What kind of problems would that cause for the crew?

She continues to act the same way towards Shinji as we've seen before until she takes a bullet for him. After that, when we see Shinji and Misato have their exchange, she's no longer wearing her dark glasses and hat. She is no longer in the role of captain/commander talking to Shinji but as someone who cares about him.

We can see her eyes.





So, sorry for the confusion everyone. I hope this clarifies things.

[rilocay]

Regarding 3.0+1.0, I can only mention what it is say in the script. Humans speak as the Near Third Impact being the worst thing that happened to them.

This is correct - it's stated as the cause for the majority of the destruction seen in 3.0 and the first half of 3.0+1.0. Such as the headless eva bodies and destroyed land. It's messy because we see so little of the time gap - but with Gendo's line being something like "The earth became cleansed by result of the Third" - doesn't help to clarify exactly where this happened. Perhaps Kaworu has something to say about it in Q but I forget.

Think of it as NTI getting 75% of the way there, with its' progress remaining even after cancellation.

[Axx°N N.]

Upon viewing the film and various discussion with Japanese surrounding it, I did get out of it that Shinji was selfish for saving Rei as Misato didn't give the order to save Rei and things went bad from there.

According to some reviews, there’s also the underlying theme of the villainy of selfishness (a theme pervasive in Japanese society).

There was an issue of selfishness when he saved Rei in 2.0. At that time, he was aware that this would cause problems, but he continued with his actions to save her.

OK but the implication here is ridiculous. If this boils down to selfishness, and that what he did was perceived as wrong because he wasn't following orders, here's the problem:

What would have happened if Shinji did follow his orders? Consider the chain of command and who, ultimately, was giving the orders. Shinji would have ended up just playing along with what Gendo wanted, and the same events would have occured. Gendo says in Shin that the sea, the land, and the souls needed to be cleansed. Everyone Sakura and Midori are mad at Shinji for killing would have still died. Maybe even more people would have died.

None of it adds up. It's just stupid.

[Kendrix]

From reading the script I didn't really get any impression of a 'selfishness' theme.
(nor would I ever forgive them if they actually presented COMFORMISM GOOD as moral, IDC if it's "traditional" or whatever, conformism gets you bullying at best and nazis at worst)

What they might be referring/extrapolating from is Gendo's actions being described as self-indulgent at various points but those are of a completely different nature and scale.

It's quite the opposite, Shinji gets a full apology, lots of ppl defend him & acknowledge that he can't srly be blamed & ultimately saved them all by defeating Zeruel. He couldn't have beat it without awakening the EVA so at that point it was a choice between "everyone dies" and "almost everyone dies"

There's honestly more emphasis on the Bardiel situation in that there's an explicit conversation where they talk about what he could've done better - by Asuka, who is always the harsh one & has plenty of reason to be personally salty seeing as she lived through 14 years of body horror as a result, but, that's also a more reasonable divergence point cause if Shinji had taken action there, or had not quit afterwards, he could've intercepted Zeruel earlier and with a cable.

The difference between this & the start of Q is that everyone - Misato, Shinji, the WILLE members etc. has had some time to uncompress, chill & process the reality of the situation.
That they'd be useless & emotional at first is just realistic.