Shikinami: Did we just get Ocean's Twelved?

[Jäeger]

Life It was just a figure of speech hahaha

Yes, I can understand a little this feeling of yours regarding certain choices made by Anno for this film although I think i'd better wait to see me the whole movie before i get my opinion to agree on this movie is really as bad as some people say or really as good as others say.

Not who, but the writing choices .

To be honest I don't think I can say 100% that I agree to disagree with you at least until I've seen the movie. Some people have even defined it more over the top than ANIMA. OK seeing the spoilers I can understand the comparison because of how much crazy science fiction Anno seems to have put into this film but still certain parallels with ANIMA were already present in 2.0. I'm not very angry about the possible Mari X Shinji ending, in fact I'm a little happy that Anno did something that a lot of people would never have expected of him and at the same time I'm annoyed because Mari should have spent a lot more time with Shinji in the movies. precedents to justify such a thing. My God for me before this movie also Misato and Kaji's son and Toji and Hikari's daughter were things I would only see in certain fan-fiction.I think when I see it I will like this movie even though it really looks like fan fiction from what we have seen in the spoilers

Yeah, but we all agree that ANIMA is filled with over the top concepts that only work as a crazy as fuck spin off. And that is very poorly written.

The Touji and Hikari thing.....did somebody see them interacting in three movies? And Misato and Kajís relationship? Almost zero, save for a few moments in 2.0. So "meta" is an excuse to rely on NGE to understand things.

Jäeger

It all comes from the nature of HA as a movie. In my opinion, it jiggles with too many ideas at the same time. Don't get me wrong, it is a pleasant experience and some of its themes are fun. However, they are not given the proper time to breath. Asuka piloting Unit 03? Man, that's a good concept and the sequence turned out to be amazing! However, it could have been even better if Shikinami and Shinji had shared more scenes together at the beginning of the movie. I can tell that there is something going on between these two, but their bond could definitely be more fleshed out.

You get the point. Getting them paired in Shin would have felt almost as stupid (well, not as stupid and hypocrite) as pairing him with Mari. Shinji's confession is out of nowhere after three movies, because the bond between them is almost no seen before. Just a simple confession in Ha among his friends would have added more drama to the 03 incident and make things have more sense.

Shitty writting, again.

[ChaddyManPrime]

I think the love/like thing is just a fuck up, like a Rey Palpatine type deal. Anno wanted this to have nothing to do with the original series but he also wanted it be a conclusion for all Evangelion, so he tacked it on cause he ain't doing no more, maybe some Ill guided attempt to give us closure?

[Xenoblade]

^I've got to disagree, Shinji and Asuka admitting they like each other is therapeutic, it just needed more build-up. Asuka and Shinji just needed more time together in 2.0 and 3.0 that was spent elsewhere on other priorities. That's not good, but it's not Disney Star Wars levels of bad.

Rey never needed to be a Palpatine, or a nobody. Both reveals by Johnson and Abrams were kind of silly and handled poorly. It wasn't due to lack of context really because we expected a sudden reveal of her parentage. Disney just found a way to make it....suck.

You get the point. Getting them paired in Shin would have felt almost as stupid (well, not as stupid and hypocrite) as pairing him with Mari. Shinji's confession is out of nowhere after three movies, because the bond between them is almost no seen before. Just a simple confession in Ha among his friends would have added more drama to the 03 incident and make things have more sense.

I agree it would have worked better if Shinji had broached the topic before with Toji or Kensuke. Instead he never discusses her, and hardly engages in conversation later with the girl who sneaks into his bed at night, giving Rei more attention than Asuka even at the film's climax.

He doesn't exactly wear his heart on his sleeve at any time but this could have been handled better.

[Jäeger]

^I've got to disagree, Shinji and Asuka admitting they like each other is therapeutic, it just needed more build-up. Asuka and Shinji just needed more time together in 2.0 and 3.0 that was spent elsewhere on other priorities.

Rey never needed to be a Palpatine, or a nobody. Both reveals by Johnson and Abrams were kind of silly and just annoyed people. It wasn't due to lack of context really because we expected a sudden reveal of her parentage. Disney just found a way to make it....suck.

You get the point. Getting them paired in Shin would have felt almost as stupid (well, not as stupid and hypocrite) as pairing him with Mari. Shinji's confession is out of nowhere after three movies, because the bond between them is almost no seen before. Just a simple confession in Ha among his friends would have added more drama to the 03 incident and make things have more sense.

I agree it would have worked better if Shinji had broached the topic before with Toji or Kensuke. Instead he gives Rei more attention than Asuka.

He doesn't exactly wear his heart on his sleeve though.

And it's fine to give more attention to other character, despite I like more the other. As long as you do it right. No complains about Rei's treatment here, but still think Asuka deserved better.

If it comes out of nowhere is not therapeutic, is just bad writting and bad fanservice. Quite ironic, if NTE is "different". A writter shouln't mix his visit to the psychologist and his work if the outcome is gonna be pretty fucked up. But ah!! "It's meta!! ".

Of course, Rise Of The Skywalker set the bar under the Marianas trench, it reeks of executive meddling.

[FXArmaros98]

It's funny because, in the end, Asuka ends up being the female protagonist of the series and her relationship with Shinji is by far the most explored. Soryu truly is an unique character. I love how she simply changes everything! Asuka appears at a time when we are already getting used to the main cast of Evangelion and twists a lot of dynamics

Lol Asuka was practically Evangelion's Vegeta in how she managed to establish herself in the main cast

But now speaking seriously I must say that on this I agree with you,hell the fact Asuka had the same problems as Shinji actually and this was a focal point of the EOE storyline despite her facial expressions and mood swings making her a relief is what made her unique

Asuka's role in NTE does bother me.

@ BernardoCairo and Jäeger yes, I understand that Asuka is a character who needed to be more important than that, but now what can we do now that we have reached the end of the games?I mean it is useless to complain, seriously what do we go through to change things, go to Japan from Anno, tell him that now he is just the shadow of the director he once was and slap him until he gives us a movie with more space for Asuka and a more sensible ending for our point of view?

@ BernardoCairo until a few days ago if you remember me and you were speculating about a possible future fighting game where there would be interesting and fun interactions between the pre-battle characters, so I tell you that we will be lucky maybe one day Asuka could have a bigger role in certain future spin-offs although I realize that this would only be a consolation prize compared to canonical films. . For fans of Asuka and Shinji who want to get a Rebuilds ending where Shikinami and Shinji become a couple I think they will really have to wait and hope for some multi-ending game like Neon Genesis Evangelion The Shinji Ikari Raising Project.

@ BernardoCairo and Jäeger I hope I haven't bothered you both too much with this post of mine or that you thought I just want to impose my opinion, I respect your opinions and so I apologize in advance if I have bothered you.

The Touji and Hikari thing.....did somebody see them interacting in three movies? And Misato and Kajís relationship? Almost zero, save for a few moments in 2.0. So "meta" is an excuse to rely on NGE to understand things.

Well yes, for me making certain things simply implied does not justify not having details to be able to give some logic to certain things

Shinji's confession is out of nowhere after three movies

I am struggling with myself on this because on the one hand I am happy to see that Shinji has learned to interact with other people without the fear of being hurt, on the other hand I am upset at how Anno wanted to resolve and end their relationship.

[Xenoblade]

I am struggling with myself on this because on the one hand I am happy to see that Shinji has learned to interact with other people without the fear of being hurt, on the other hand I am upset at how Anno wanted to resolve and end their relationship.

Just when things seemed to be getting good between Asuka and Shinji, too...

[BernardoCairo]

You get the point.

That's really weird if you think about it. I mean, Evangelion is no stranger to packing a lot of ideas into a single episode/movie. I have already talked about how JO does this effectively, but it can also be seen in several segments of the original series.
An example of this would be episode 15, which is one of my personal favorites. Everyone here feels like a real person (with struggles, insecurities and aspirations). The writers masterfully explored the mentality of their three protagonists, with the main theme behind it being the day that these people are sharing. This episode never gets stale, it keep introducing ideias at a nonstop pace! But all of these elements collide to create a cohesive masterpiece (in which one character complements the other). The parallel between Misato's kiss with Kaji and Asuka's with Shinji shows this perfectly.
Well, maybe that’s what’s missing from HA, a well-defined theme to bring all of its concepts together. Don't get me wrong, I truly like this movie. It is fun. However, I believe it could be a bit more focused and self-contained.

I understand that Asuka is a character who needed to be more important than that, but now what can we do now that we have reached the end of the games?I mean it is useless to complain

I believe you misunderstood me. I mean, I agree with you! There is virtually no point in complaining about it! NTE is what it is and that's fine.That's what I meant when I said I "accepted" Asuka's role in these movies. In the end, I'm just a consumer. The monopoly of this narrative is not in my hands, nor should it be. Anno does whatever he wants with his characters and I'm more okay with that! I just like to discuss it because it's fun hahaha! That said, I'm not really mad or anything. In fact, as I said before, I like Shikinami! I think she is an interesting take on Asuka's character, to say the least!
By the way, just to make it very clear. I'm not taking Shin Evangelion into account here. I haven't watched the movie yet. Therefore, it's impossible for me to judge it in any way, shape, or form.

[FXArmaros98]

Just when things seemed to be getting good between Asuka and Shinji, too...

Well Asuka had said that even though she had feelings for Shinji but she said that her had grown up before him suggesting that she may have gotten over her crush on him by now so I don't understand why she acted in a Tsundere way when Shinji told her he liked her too. . However, I think that Anno with the look of the 28 year old Asuka wanted to make us understand that the 14-year-old time skip would prevent the two of them from having a normal romance relationship and that Shinji have too accepted it telling to Asuka of take care of Kensuke. However, I can understand that despite this many people would have preferred an Asuka X Shinji ending and their frustration that in the last scene with Shinji there is Mari instead of Asuka

I like Shikinami! I think she is an interesting take on Asuka's character

I agree with you that Shikinami is an interesting version of Asuka.I had a love/hate relationship with Soryu for this I appreciated her, she was a character for whom I felt dislike at certain times and empathy for others, for this reason she together with Shinji was really an extraordinary character. When I saw 3.0 I was very annoyed that Asuka had abused Shinji at the end of the movie and complained to him for not helping her when until 10 or so minutes ago it looked like she wanted to kill him. But seeing the spoilers of 3.0 + 1.0 I am happy that she made peace with him and that with the help of Shinji and Kensuke in Instrumentality she faced her loneliness by opening the way to maybe be happy one day

[Xenoblade]

Just when things seemed to be getting good between Asuka and Shinji, too...

Well Asuka had said that even though she had feelings for Shinji but she said that her had grown up before him suggesting that she may have gotten over her crush on him by now so I don't understand why she acted in a Tsundere way when Shinji told her he liked her too. . However, I think that Anno with the look of the 28 year old Asuka wanted to make us understand that the 14-year-old time skip would prevent the two of them from having a normal romance relationship and that Shinji have too accepted it telling to Asuka of take care of Kensuke. However, I can understand that despite this many people would have preferred an Asuka X Shinji ending and their frustration that in the last scene with Shinji there is Mari instead of Asuka

Bear in mind for Shinji it's been...what, a week? I suppose it might not mean much in terms of actually writing a film, but for Shinji she should still be theoretically very fresh.

He accepts she moved on, fair enough, but "Say hi to Kensuke for me" is ambiguous in my opinion, intentionally so. The reality is that Shinji and Mari are moments away from saying goodbye to her (as far as we the audience know, for good), right after the first time Shinji ever really acknowledges affection for her. That is sudden.

As for why she acted tsundere after he admits he liked her, I think that was just to show she might have had lingering feelings and appreciated what he said. She's run out of "baka" to dish out, and she's likely got an inkling that she's going to be parting ways with him and Mari in just a moment...

I can kind of accept that it can't work out, but I would have loved to see a bit of a back-and-forth on the beach before she's booted back to Earth, or some sort of dialogue or banter at the end, something to tell us they can still talk to each other.

[Mr. Tines]

or some sort of dialogue or banter at the end, something to tell us they can still talk to each other.

Like this?  SPOILER: Show

"How disgusting!"

[ChaddyManPrime]

^
That would be fucking perfect!

[FXArmaros98]

He accepts she moved on, fair enough, but "Say hi to Kensuke for me" is ambiguous in my opinion, intentionally so.

For me Kensuke for Asuka is basically this: father figure / best friend and love interest (?). I put the question mark precisely because I don't know what really there was between Asuka and Kensuke and how it could be and if I really have to be realistic then I tell you that I really think we will never know if Mari X Shinji, Asuka X Kensuke and Kaworu X Rei are canonical or not.

As for why she acted tsundere after he admits he liked her, I think that was just to show she might have had lingering feelings and appreciated what he said. She's run out of "baka" to dish out, and she's likely got an inkling that she's going to be parting ways with him and Mari in just a moment...

About this I really don't know what to think, I mean from the way she woke up in the Evangelion 13 Entry Plug it seemed like she just realized she was dreaming, so I don't think it's sure if the Asuka that was on beach even if he had a 28-year-old body and all his memories also had the personality of 3.0 + 10 or the more innocent one of 2.0
You know what I mean?

I can kind of accept that it can't work out, but I would have loved to see a bit of a back-and-forth on the beach before she's booted back to Earth, or some sort of dialogue or banter at the end, something to tell us they can still talk to each other.

I know how you feel , I too wanted more interactions between Shinji and Asuka but I think Anno wanted to spend less time with them in order to focus on Kaworu's Instrumentality and Shinji's scene that with his parents' sacrifice stops the added impact and gives birth to the new world

[Xenoblade]

Like this?  SPOILER: Show

^That would have been brilliant, lol.

For me Kensuke for Asuka is basically this: father figure / best friend and love interest (?). I put the question mark precisely because I don't know what really there was between Asuka and Kensuke and how it could be and if I really have to be realistic then I tell you that I really think we will never know if Mari X Shinji, Asuka X Kensuke and Kaworu X Rei are canonical or not.

Fair enough!

About this I really don't know what to think, I mean from the way she woke up in the Evangelion 13 Entry Plug it seemed like she just realized she was dreaming, so I don't think it's sure if the Asuka that was on beach even if he had a 28-year-old body and all his memories also had the personality of 3.0 + 10 or the more innocent one of 2.0
You know what I mean?

Good points.

I really can't tell if she reverts back to her "cursed" form in the brief entry plug shot or not...and what it would mean if so. I guess she's oversized for her seat but the jacket almost seems to fit her. We'll have to see when the full film releases in the west. The last few sequences of this film will justify a long analysis.

Asuka becomes a bit rougher as the series goes on but I bet that's her final self there on the beach.

I know how you feel , I too wanted more interactions between Shinji and Asuka but I think Anno wanted to spend less time with them in order to focus on Kaworu's Instrumentality and Shinji's scene that with his parents' sacrifice stops the added impact and gives birth to the new world

Fair enough, it's just my natural bias towards letting Asuka muscle her way into the deuteragonist role she had in NGE/EoE. I thought that worked well. It kind of echoed Jung Freud in Gunbuster but maybe a little stronger. I would have liked her to get co-billing and I think there was room for her to share the stage with Shinji once more.

[FXArmaros98]

Perhaps. I think Mari and Shinji stand out here though. Shinji seems to like what she has to offer.

I think we will have to at least wait to get that official work of art, perhaps set after the film, to have confirmation on how much the possible new ships in this film are to be considered cannon.

You know something similar to this artwork portraying Shinji and Asuka in the post EOE world from the book Die Sterne https://i.redd.it/6gwrdgs7c4n21.png

But I seriously doubt that some illustrations that maybe portrays Shinji and Mari (same speech for Asuka with Kensuke and Rei with Kaworu) going to a date (or something similar to that kind of situation) will come out anytime soon.

It kind of echoed Jung Freud in Gunbuster but maybe a little stronger. I would have liked her to get co-billing and I think there was room for her to share the stage with Shinji once more.

I believe such a thing could really happen if 3.0 + 1.0 will be adapted in some future Super Robot Wars game or if in the future it will be released as a spin-off for the Rebuilds saga maybe a multiple-ending video game

[Kendrix]

Tropes are tools; Character, too, are tools.
Same thing I've told to everyone being butthurt over the ReiQ thing;

I doubt that this was a fuck you statement or a popularity contest, but simply a different way to express a concept or a feeling.

I think the crucial bit here is how the clones were made to compete against each other, the instrumentality sequence has her lamenting that she never had parents etc. so the basic feeling of isolation & having to justify oneself isn't sooo different.

The manipulation/predestination angle was already amped up; I'm surprised that Shinji didn't turn out to be artificial somehow. Not even in a "Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts" kinda thing where Y & G used their actual sperm & eggs but then messed with the embryos

though, while my mind might change once I see it it does feel a bit like different for the sake of being different.

Or maybe an excuse to have her fight a "dark" version of herself

I'm really hoping that some of the reasoning will be given in the flashbacks

[FXArmaros98]

I'm surprised that Shinji didn't turn out to be artificial somehow.

I also believed that Shinji may have undergone a type of genitic manipulation by his parents to make him more compatible with Evangelion Unit 01 and consequently be a reliable pawn for the success of the Instrumentality.