You attempt at a "gotcha" implies that somehow despite the entire leak of the script, subtitles, artbook, spoiler talk, etc, there's a secret sequence no one ever mentioned so far that gives any coherent hint at what truly caused the continuity mess we saw in Q beyond "Kaji had to die to stop it" and vague "it's Shinji's fault because of the ending of 2.0"
Commander Nagisa and Kaji 2.22
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
You attempt at a "gotcha" implies that somehow despite the entire leak of the script, subtitles, artbook, spoiler talk, etc, there's a secret sequence no one ever mentioned so far that gives any coherent hint at what truly caused the continuity mess we saw in Q beyond "Kaji had to die to stop it" and vague "it's Shinji's fault because of the ending of 2.0"
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Upon watching some reviews it has come to my amazement that Kaworu's personality and behavior is actually in part from Gendo. Gendo's inner most desires and hopes are imprinted on Kaworu hence why he acts the way he does towards Shniji. It would also explain why Kaworu labels Gendo in 2.0 as father.
Anyone else hearing this?
Anyone else hearing this?
I watch and speculate.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
wiser3754 wrote:Upon watching some reviews it has come to my amazement that Kaworu's personality and behavior is actually in part from Gendo. Gendo's inner most desires and hopes are imprinted on Kaworu hence why he acts the way he does towards Shniji. It would also explain why Kaworu labels Gendo in 2.0 as father.
Anyone else hearing this?
I think the comparison is meta. Not an in-story connection between the characters.
Shinji compare Kaworu with Gendo, since both are trapped in an obsesive wish. However, this is likely also a comparison with himself (at this point, Shinji has already forgiven his father and notice his similarities with Gendo).
Some reviews seem to analize that Kaworu represent the father and Rei represent the mother.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Updates 3/18
A big thank you goes to evageeks founder Reichu [arqacrypha.net/, twitter: @ArqaApocrypha, @ArcaZone] for finding the Q connection with Kaji's melon patch faucet and pointing the infamous conversation part in the script .
Flashback Scene
[3/18] In the third impact flashback scene we see the body of Lilith with the head of Mark 06. Mark 06 is holding the severed head of masked Lilith (complete with blue Rei hair) as skulls rain down from the sky.
Marine Research Institute
Kaji and Kaoru's conversation happens at the marine research facility. It seems like it was a reused shot from 2.0 with Kaji standing outside with his back on the railing.
Also notice in 2.0's preview where we see a shot of battleships in BLUE water when it is mentioned that Nerv personnel were imprisoned. Was this at the marine research institute as well?
Kaji's sacrifice
[Note: It is mentioned that a sacrifice was needed to stop third impact]
I don't remember this being in the movie on my second viewing but it might be in the script or something. There is a sacrificial element in impact mechanics (like when EVA13 eats Unit 02's plug but I can't be 100% on this at the time. Moreover, Kaji did sacrifice himself in the VTOL to stop third impact].
The Melon Faucet
[Added 3/18]
Evageek's founder Reichu found this scene in Q when Kaoru takes Shinji into the ruins of Nerv HQ
Reichu's quote:
In the film there are several shot's of Kaji's melon faucet in Kaoru's instrumentality scene (as well as flashbacks in 2.0). This is revealed when Kaji is having the infamous conversation in with Kaoru in the melon field.
There are actual multiple faucet shots (I remember one in the third village at Touji and Hikari's house). I wonder if there's some symbolism in which the water faucet represents life.
The Infamous Conversation
[Added 3/18]
When Kaoru and Kaji are talking in his melon field they have a certain exchange below.
The feeling I got from this exchange was something like a hypothetical wouldn't it be nice scenario.
My interpretation from the tone was something along the lines of
Kaji: wouldn't it be nice to be working the fields with Katsuragi in your old age?
Kaoru: Yeah, that would be nice.
It kind of reminded me from NGE with Shinji and Kaji in the melon patch and Kaji making a remark about how he'd rather be between Misato's melons.
[NOTE: I do not have the Japanese script but I would be more than happy to take a look at it to confirm this line]
A big thank you goes to evageeks founder Reichu [arqacrypha.net/, twitter: @ArqaApocrypha, @ArcaZone] for finding the Q connection with Kaji's melon patch faucet and pointing the infamous conversation part in the script .
Flashback Scene
[3/18] In the third impact flashback scene we see the body of Lilith with the head of Mark 06. Mark 06 is holding the severed head of masked Lilith (complete with blue Rei hair) as skulls rain down from the sky.
Marine Research Institute
Kaji and Kaoru's conversation happens at the marine research facility. It seems like it was a reused shot from 2.0 with Kaji standing outside with his back on the railing.
Also notice in 2.0's preview where we see a shot of battleships in BLUE water when it is mentioned that Nerv personnel were imprisoned. Was this at the marine research institute as well?
Kaji's sacrifice
I don't remember this being in the movie on my second viewing but it might be in the script or something. There is a sacrificial element in impact mechanics (like when EVA13 eats Unit 02's plug but I can't be 100% on this at the time. Moreover, Kaji did sacrifice himself in the VTOL to stop third impact].
The Melon Faucet
[Added 3/18]
Evageek's founder Reichu found this scene in Q when Kaoru takes Shinji into the ruins of Nerv HQ
Reichu's quote:
This quick sequence of shots in Q was always so goddamned mysterious. And now it's not. Now we know why Kaworu goes there. This is right after he showed Shinji the post-Third Impact world, and he's thinking about Kaji's sacrifice.
In the film there are several shot's of Kaji's melon faucet in Kaoru's instrumentality scene (as well as flashbacks in 2.0). This is revealed when Kaji is having the infamous conversation in with Kaoru in the melon field.
There are actual multiple faucet shots (I remember one in the third village at Touji and Hikari's house). I wonder if there's some symbolism in which the water faucet represents life.
The Infamous Conversation
[Added 3/18]
When Kaoru and Kaji are talking in his melon field they have a certain exchange below.
Kaji: What about working the fields with Katsuragi in your old age?
Kaworu: Yeah, that's also good.
The feeling I got from this exchange was something like a hypothetical wouldn't it be nice scenario.
My interpretation from the tone was something along the lines of
Kaji: wouldn't it be nice to be working the fields with Katsuragi in your old age?
Kaoru: Yeah, that would be nice.
It kind of reminded me from NGE with Shinji and Kaji in the melon patch and Kaji making a remark about how he'd rather be between Misato's melons.
[NOTE: I do not have the Japanese script but I would be more than happy to take a look at it to confirm this line]
Oh, the clock is ticking out
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Pluto wrote:Kaji's sacrifice[Note: It is mentioned that a sacrifice was needed to stop third impact]
I don't remember this being in the movie on my second viewing but it might be in the script or something. There is a sacrificial element in impact mechanics (like when EVA13 eats Unit 02's plug but I can't be 100% on this at the time. Moreover, Kaji did sacrifice himself in the VTOL to stop third impact].
According to the translated script, Kensuke said this to Shinji when they speak about Kaji:
Shinji: Then... what of Kaji?
Kensuke: He died. Someone had to be sacificed to stop the Third Impact. Kaji chose that. Misato allowed it.
It sounds like a sacrifice is a requirement to stop the Third Impact, but it could be ambiguous. Not to mention that it is a translation.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Ah, yeah now I remember. Kensuke is explaining what happened in his Jeep on the highway after they meet up with Kaji Jr. I've added this to the main post, quoted and credited you. Thanks for picking this out of the script!
Oh, the clock is ticking out
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
That's interesting! They knew.
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
I saw the movie twice but didn’t notice either:
1) The blue hair, or
2) That it was Mark 06 holding the head; it appeared to me that it was floating in the air (much like the head of Evangelion Imaginary does later in the “visdual recreation of EoE”).
...But then again, that shot lasted maybe 3 seconds tops, and it comes up all of a sudden, unannounced (so I couldn’t pay much attention to it on the second viewing either).
I know it’s too much to ask and won’t happen, but a second imapact-centered prequel and a third impact-centered “interquel” would be awesome.
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
New Theatrical Edition is a competition between what EVA has less screentime, Mark 06 seconds and Eva (Four)gotten.
Anyway, in Kaworu Instrumentality we get to see the coffins and the giant on the Moon right?
Anyway, in Kaworu Instrumentality we get to see the coffins and the giant on the Moon right?
*petrifies and is left floating adrift in space, where it will outlast Evangelion: Thrice Upon a Time 3.0+1.0, as an eternal testament that the human race existed*
Bye bye all of Evangelion and Evageeks.
When you feel sad remember that it's always epic Spinosaurus aegyptiacus time, you were born in the same planet as S. aegyptiacus, how cool is it?
I never understood why people hate the Rebuild because it's different and love the Series, can we just love it all without creating dilemmas and unnecessary discussions?
This is truly the end of this account, forever.
Bye bye all of Evangelion and Evageeks.
When you feel sad remember that it's always epic Spinosaurus aegyptiacus time, you were born in the same planet as S. aegyptiacus, how cool is it?
I never understood why people hate the Rebuild because it's different and love the Series, can we just love it all without creating dilemmas and unnecessary discussions?
SPOILER: Show
Be careful of 3.0+1.0 spoilers
This is truly the end of this account, forever.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Konja7 wrote:Pluto#916347 wrote:Kaji's sacrifice[Note: It is mentioned that a sacrifice was needed to stop third impact]
I don't remember this being in the movie on my second viewing but it might be in the script or something. There is a sacrificial element in impact mechanics (like when EVA13 eats Unit 02's plug but I can't be 100% on this at the time. Moreover, Kaji did sacrifice himself in the VTOL to stop third impact].
According to the translated script, Kensuke said this to Shinji when they speak about Kaji:
Shinji: Then... what of Kaji?
Kensuke: He died. Someone had to be sacificed to stop the Third Impact. Kaji chose that. Misato allowed it.
It sounds like a sacrifice is a requirement to stop the Third Impact, but it could be ambiguous. Not to mention that it is a translation.
Or maybe just it was a way to talk about a suicidal mission.
We are so used to the religious gibberish that we discard the most plausible explanation.
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by their side???
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
That's why I said it could be ambiguous and a translation (another translation I found is "Someone had to be sacrificed in order to stop the Third Impact").
The first time I read that I definitely though a sacrifice is a necessary requirement to stop an Impact (it would fit that a sacrifice seems to be part of the process to stop Fourth Impact). However, as you say, it could be a way to talk about a suicidal mission.
It would be good to have the words in Japanese. Maybe we could know if the words are literal or a way to talk.
Last edited by Konja7 on Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Given the crashed VTOL, I assumed that it was more of a suicide mission into the eye of the storm than some kind of ritual. That stuff about Mark 6 decapitating Lillith on the cross has me really intrigued about what went down.
Also, the only Impact we've seen that seemed to require a sacrifice was Fourth with Kaworu. And even then the gates didn't close until Shinji was yanked out of 13. Second is unclear. Near Third stopped via spear. Third is ambiguous as to what happened. Translation and localisation is a difficult thing and there's a wealth of differences between 'Someone had to be sacrificed...' and 'Someone had to sacrifice themselves...'
But otherwise, yeah, never forget the point raised that a lot of Evangelion is characters discussing things in religious terms as characterisation.
Also, the only Impact we've seen that seemed to require a sacrifice was Fourth with Kaworu. And even then the gates didn't close until Shinji was yanked out of 13. Second is unclear. Near Third stopped via spear. Third is ambiguous as to what happened. Translation and localisation is a difficult thing and there's a wealth of differences between 'Someone had to be sacrificed...' and 'Someone had to sacrifice themselves...'
But otherwise, yeah, never forget the point raised that a lot of Evangelion is characters discussing things in religious terms as characterisation.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Topic Update 3/20
Added Reichu's translated dialogue and script quote in the infamous scene section.
Topic Replies
Yeah it's such a short shot. I was really waiting and paying attention to the second time I watched. I'll probably make another update after I see the movie the third time. Also, this youtube video confirms it as well along with a lot of other major points in the film. Certainly, I will check again to see if the head is floating like Eva Imaginary at the end.
I too would like to see a third impact movie. I think there is a possibility that someone will take the reigns because 1. there's probably enough context there and 2. Shinji is (not) involved.
Yeah, that's for sure. Mark 06 still remains one of the most mysterious EVAs.
Yes, we do get to see the coffins on the moon (almost same shot as in the previous films but we see infinite coffins to the one side that are open and on the other that are closed. However, there is no shot with the giant Lilith esque Adam on the moon.
I agree with you on this one here. I'm going to ask my friend when I see it again and hopefully have an update.
Added Reichu's translated dialogue and script quote in the infamous scene section.
Topic Replies
DantesInferno wrote:
I saw the movie twice but didn’t notice either:
1) The blue hair, or
2) That it was Mark 06 holding the head; it appeared to me that it was floating in the air (much like the head of Evangelion Imaginary does later in the “visdual recreation of EoE”).
...But then again, that shot lasted maybe 3 seconds tops, and it comes up all of a sudden, unannounced (so I couldn’t pay much attention to it on the second viewing either).
I know it’s too much to ask and won’t happen, but a second imapact-centered prequel and a third impact-centered “interquel” would be awesome.
Yeah it's such a short shot. I was really waiting and paying attention to the second time I watched. I'll probably make another update after I see the movie the third time. Also, this youtube video confirms it as well along with a lot of other major points in the film. Certainly, I will check again to see if the head is floating like Eva Imaginary at the end.
I too would like to see a third impact movie. I think there is a possibility that someone will take the reigns because 1. there's probably enough context there and 2. Shinji is (not) involved.
Yeah, that's for sure. Mark 06 still remains one of the most mysterious EVAs.
Yes, we do get to see the coffins on the moon (almost same shot as in the previous films but we see infinite coffins to the one side that are open and on the other that are closed. However, there is no shot with the giant Lilith esque Adam on the moon.
Konja7 wrote:
That's why I said it could be ambiguous and a translation (another translation I found is "Someone had to be sacrificed in order to stop the Third Impact").
The first time I read that I definitely though a sacrifice is a necessary requirement to stop an Impact (it would fit that a sacrifice seems to be part of the process to stop Fourth Impact). However, as you say, it could be a way to talk about a suicidal mission.
It would be good to have the words in Japanese. Maybe we could know if the words are literal or a way to talk.
I agree with you on this one here. I'm going to ask my friend when I see it again and hopefully have an update.
Oh, the clock is ticking out
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
"Fanwank something"
I imagine that a bunch of events happened over a couple months following 2.0, where Nerv staff (future Wille staff, I guess?) is detained while Seele try to control the situation and put Kaworu in charge, Unit 08 begins construction for the new pilot, the NHGs are brought in (maybe being built from before, maybe the NHG Buße (codename NHG-***1) is the first one to come online in preparation for the next step of the Human Instrumentality Project, Fuyutsuki and Gendo leave to some undisclosed mountainous location where one of the Adams is being unearthed (the future Thirteenth Unit), Mark.06 is turned into a drone and maybe tested against the 11th Angel, then in lieu of Poka Rei, Seele has Nerv churn out the rest of the early Ayanami Series (Reis 3-6) in preparation for the upcoming Eva Opfer-types to be paired with the NHGs. Kaworu leaks the truth to Kaji, who starts the insurrection, and he comes up with the name "Wille" by himself, vandalizing the Nerv logo in his VTOL craft, Misato and the rest hijack the NHG Buße and rename it AAA Wunder, then things start going wrong around the arrival of the 12th Angel and the sealing pillars around Unit 01 stop working.
God, so many holes to fill in.
I imagine that a bunch of events happened over a couple months following 2.0, where Nerv staff (future Wille staff, I guess?) is detained while Seele try to control the situation and put Kaworu in charge, Unit 08 begins construction for the new pilot, the NHGs are brought in (maybe being built from before, maybe the NHG Buße (codename NHG-***1) is the first one to come online in preparation for the next step of the Human Instrumentality Project, Fuyutsuki and Gendo leave to some undisclosed mountainous location where one of the Adams is being unearthed (the future Thirteenth Unit), Mark.06 is turned into a drone and maybe tested against the 11th Angel, then in lieu of Poka Rei, Seele has Nerv churn out the rest of the early Ayanami Series (Reis 3-6) in preparation for the upcoming Eva Opfer-types to be paired with the NHGs. Kaworu leaks the truth to Kaji, who starts the insurrection, and he comes up with the name "Wille" by himself, vandalizing the Nerv logo in his VTOL craft, Misato and the rest hijack the NHG Buße and rename it AAA Wunder, then things start going wrong around the arrival of the 12th Angel and the sealing pillars around Unit 01 stop working.
God, so many holes to fill in.
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
I think that's pretty close, but there's a few things that I think might fill in some missing details.
We know that NERV was rebranded at some stage. We know there's also the International Project Evangelion Agency and they appear to be 'above' NERV when it comes to relative position within the United Nations. We know that the preview at the end of the second film basically indicates that, post 2.22, life continued for normal for at least enough time. Based on 3.0+1.0, it seems like all those scenes in the preview section happened in the interim. So, my thoughts are...
At the end of 2.22, Kaworu appears and puts a stop to Third Impact with the Spear of Cassius. Lilith is still on the cross. The event becomes known as Near Third Impact. Sealing Pillars are constructed around Evangelion Unit 01, which is otherwise left where it is - spear and all.
Given the event, the United Nations arranges for NERV's staff to be detained and interrogated. Tokyo-3, the site of Near Third Impact Ground Zero, is abandoned. At the very least, any eyewitness to Near Third Impact is questioned. Given the damage to the old NERV logo that we see in 3.33 (and the bakelite everywhere), this may not have been a peaceful process (and would echo End of Evangelion, too.) Gendo and Fuyutsuki seemingly escape into the mountains to avoid this, eyewitnesses and architects both. Potentially the world thinks they are dead.
Here is where things get hazy. My assumption is that, after the UN debriefing, the powers-that-be basically decide to restructure NERV. After all, there's still Angels on the way. If human pilots can cause Impacts, then remove the pilot. So, all Evangelions are automated with dummy systems, including Mark 6, and the organization itself gets a 'digital' logo to reflect this. While SEELE doesn't seem to have the same string-pulling political power they did in the original series, they seem to be able to get Kaworu Nagisa put in as the new Commander of NERV. A five-person meeting of 'SEELE's Children' takes place at some point, presumably including Mari and Rei at the very least, maybe Asuka, too. No one seems to know what to do with Unit 01 - I presume the spear is still keeping it in torpor. While Kaworu is seemingly SEELE's boy, he works closely with Kaji and fills him in on some deep lore - the Fuyutsuki to his Gendo? WILLE may be formed around this time.
At some point, Angel 11 appears. Angel 11 is killed. Angel 12 appears. Angel 12 makes it all the way to Lilith. Given what's said in 2.22 about an Angel-detecting self-destruct system, it appears that the Twelfth Angel merged with Mark 6 prior to reaching Lilith. If Unit 02 and Unit 08 were deployed, Mark 6/Angel 12 must've defeated them. The Mark 6/12 Angel decapitates Lilith and triggers Third Impact by merging with it in place of its head. Kaji takes a VTOL jet all the way to Lilith's chamber and plays some pivotal role in ending Third Impact, sacrificing his life in the process, and this event seems to be the rallying cry for WILLE. At some point during Third Impact, Mark 6 is impaled by both spears - one of which is confirmed to be the Spear of Cassius.
Given that people seem to think Shinji was involved with Third Impact, it's likely that Unit 01 was a direct participant (also, the Failures of Infinity.) Perhaps, similar to EoTV's Arael, someone (Kaworu?) gave the order to pull the Spear out of Unit 01 and throw it at Mark 6 as a last resort, leading Unit 01 to involve itself in the Impact process. Either way, people get scared of Unit 01 and throw it into space within the Tesseract (how they managed this is not apparent) because the Spears are currently busy. People place a powerful seal over Lilith's chamber, which remains unbreached until the deployment of the Evangelion 13.
Third Impact is apocalyptic enough to basically end the world. With everyone busy with that, SEELE takes up residence in the ruins of NERV, with Gendo and Fuyutsuki slinking back in, too, and they begin churning out Ayanamis and Evas, including the Mark 9. Given their differing objectives during 2.22 and the Unit 01/Mark 6 gambit, it seems that both parties may have decided to bury the hatchet. The development of Evangelion 13 begins with the two-pilot system specifically so SEELE/NERV can defeat the barrier over Lilith's chamber. However, Gendo is just waiting for his opportunity to dispose of SEELE and Kaworu. Gendo potentially injects himself with the Key of Neb and transforms the Spear of Cassius on the sly. WILLE begins operations to stop NERV once and for all, managing to grab the Wunder at some point in the intervening fourteen years (but closer to 3.33 - the WILLE crew is not experienced), but realizing they need one hell of a power source to get it flying - and so, come up with a plan...
Meanwhile, Kaworu awaits Shinji. The passage of time from Near Third Impact to Third Impact appears to be a matter of weeks. It's still weird to me that 3.0+1.0 seems to have everyone think Near Third was the apocalypse when that just doesn't seem to fit with the events. You'd think you would have Third and Near Fourth, then, if Shinji turned the world to core and created Teeth Canyon. And if all that happened, I just can't see the UN going through with the whole detainment thing.
edit: A slight change to this could be that SEELE decides to kick off their own impact after Angel 11 and Angel 12 was a last-minute surprise, but I don't think SEELE is that sloppy. Potentially SEELE charged in and sent Mark 6 to kick things off when the UN apprehended everyone, but I don't think that makes much sense. Possible that Unit 01 was thrown into space before Third Impact and he's blamed because he was the instigator of the first big bad event, but I don't think that really matches with the blame he gets.
We know that NERV was rebranded at some stage. We know there's also the International Project Evangelion Agency and they appear to be 'above' NERV when it comes to relative position within the United Nations. We know that the preview at the end of the second film basically indicates that, post 2.22, life continued for normal for at least enough time. Based on 3.0+1.0, it seems like all those scenes in the preview section happened in the interim. So, my thoughts are...
At the end of 2.22, Kaworu appears and puts a stop to Third Impact with the Spear of Cassius. Lilith is still on the cross. The event becomes known as Near Third Impact. Sealing Pillars are constructed around Evangelion Unit 01, which is otherwise left where it is - spear and all.
Given the event, the United Nations arranges for NERV's staff to be detained and interrogated. Tokyo-3, the site of Near Third Impact Ground Zero, is abandoned. At the very least, any eyewitness to Near Third Impact is questioned. Given the damage to the old NERV logo that we see in 3.33 (and the bakelite everywhere), this may not have been a peaceful process (and would echo End of Evangelion, too.) Gendo and Fuyutsuki seemingly escape into the mountains to avoid this, eyewitnesses and architects both. Potentially the world thinks they are dead.
Here is where things get hazy. My assumption is that, after the UN debriefing, the powers-that-be basically decide to restructure NERV. After all, there's still Angels on the way. If human pilots can cause Impacts, then remove the pilot. So, all Evangelions are automated with dummy systems, including Mark 6, and the organization itself gets a 'digital' logo to reflect this. While SEELE doesn't seem to have the same string-pulling political power they did in the original series, they seem to be able to get Kaworu Nagisa put in as the new Commander of NERV. A five-person meeting of 'SEELE's Children' takes place at some point, presumably including Mari and Rei at the very least, maybe Asuka, too. No one seems to know what to do with Unit 01 - I presume the spear is still keeping it in torpor. While Kaworu is seemingly SEELE's boy, he works closely with Kaji and fills him in on some deep lore - the Fuyutsuki to his Gendo? WILLE may be formed around this time.
At some point, Angel 11 appears. Angel 11 is killed. Angel 12 appears. Angel 12 makes it all the way to Lilith. Given what's said in 2.22 about an Angel-detecting self-destruct system, it appears that the Twelfth Angel merged with Mark 6 prior to reaching Lilith. If Unit 02 and Unit 08 were deployed, Mark 6/Angel 12 must've defeated them. The Mark 6/12 Angel decapitates Lilith and triggers Third Impact by merging with it in place of its head. Kaji takes a VTOL jet all the way to Lilith's chamber and plays some pivotal role in ending Third Impact, sacrificing his life in the process, and this event seems to be the rallying cry for WILLE. At some point during Third Impact, Mark 6 is impaled by both spears - one of which is confirmed to be the Spear of Cassius.
Given that people seem to think Shinji was involved with Third Impact, it's likely that Unit 01 was a direct participant (also, the Failures of Infinity.) Perhaps, similar to EoTV's Arael, someone (Kaworu?) gave the order to pull the Spear out of Unit 01 and throw it at Mark 6 as a last resort, leading Unit 01 to involve itself in the Impact process. Either way, people get scared of Unit 01 and throw it into space within the Tesseract (how they managed this is not apparent) because the Spears are currently busy. People place a powerful seal over Lilith's chamber, which remains unbreached until the deployment of the Evangelion 13.
Third Impact is apocalyptic enough to basically end the world. With everyone busy with that, SEELE takes up residence in the ruins of NERV, with Gendo and Fuyutsuki slinking back in, too, and they begin churning out Ayanamis and Evas, including the Mark 9. Given their differing objectives during 2.22 and the Unit 01/Mark 6 gambit, it seems that both parties may have decided to bury the hatchet. The development of Evangelion 13 begins with the two-pilot system specifically so SEELE/NERV can defeat the barrier over Lilith's chamber. However, Gendo is just waiting for his opportunity to dispose of SEELE and Kaworu. Gendo potentially injects himself with the Key of Neb and transforms the Spear of Cassius on the sly. WILLE begins operations to stop NERV once and for all, managing to grab the Wunder at some point in the intervening fourteen years (but closer to 3.33 - the WILLE crew is not experienced), but realizing they need one hell of a power source to get it flying - and so, come up with a plan...
Meanwhile, Kaworu awaits Shinji. The passage of time from Near Third Impact to Third Impact appears to be a matter of weeks. It's still weird to me that 3.0+1.0 seems to have everyone think Near Third was the apocalypse when that just doesn't seem to fit with the events. You'd think you would have Third and Near Fourth, then, if Shinji turned the world to core and created Teeth Canyon. And if all that happened, I just can't see the UN going through with the whole detainment thing.
edit: A slight change to this could be that SEELE decides to kick off their own impact after Angel 11 and Angel 12 was a last-minute surprise, but I don't think SEELE is that sloppy. Potentially SEELE charged in and sent Mark 6 to kick things off when the UN apprehended everyone, but I don't think that makes much sense. Possible that Unit 01 was thrown into space before Third Impact and he's blamed because he was the instigator of the first big bad event, but I don't think that really matches with the blame he gets.
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Gendo's Glasses wrote:Meanwhile, Kaworu awaits Shinji. The passage of time from Near Third Impact to Third Impact appears to be a matter of weeks. It's still weird to me that 3.0+1.0 seems to have everyone think Near Third was the apocalypse when that just doesn't seem to fit with the events. You'd think you would have Third and Near Fourth, then, if Shinji turned the world to core and created Teeth Canyon. And if all that happened, I just can't see the UN going through with the whole detainment thing.
We don't know the exact events.
It is possible the Near Third Impact started ravaging the world shortly after the end of 2.0
The Third Impact that happened between 2.0 and 3.0 seems to be stopped by Kaji. In 3.0+1.0, nobody implied this events caused problems to the world (in the script, Kensuke mentioned it only to explain Kaji's death).
In change, there are phrases for the Near Third Impact:
Kensuke: At that time, I didn't think the old man, who survived the Near Third Impact, would die like that in an accident.
Touji: We survived even the Near Third Impact. Have trust in our own luck and in Misato's Wille.
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Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Yeah, which is absurd, because then it becomes extremely difficult to reconcile everything we've got into a coherent narrative. We even see an image of Tokyo-3 during the preview at the end of the second film and - surprise, surprise - it doesn't look like what we see in the third film. Kensuke and Touji aren't exactly the most well-informed characters either, which needs to be taken under consideration. The idea that N3I was stopped with the Spear, but the world kept changing over weeks or months defies what we see from all other Impacts. Similarly, the idea that the 'Near' event was worse than the 'actual' Third is very bizarre and breaks down entirely when applied to any other circumstance. It's also possible to anyone who survived both events and is living in a hellscape that the precise distinction between the two events is basically irrelevant pedantry when they were only a short time apart and everyone calls it Near because that one was actually publicised.
edit: As an aside, people bring up those lines, but don't seem to include Gendo's line that "The earth was cleansed by means of the Third."
edit: As an aside, people bring up those lines, but don't seem to include Gendo's line that "The earth was cleansed by means of the Third."
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
We can't really use the preview at the end of 2.0 as a proof, because that's a discarded idea (in the same way, the Eva02/08 we see in the preview at the end of 3.0).
The Gendo's line was a list of the effects that the four Impacts have.
It is possible Gendo is also speaking about the effects of the Near Third Impact (a name called by the Lilin).
PS: It is implied the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0 was stopped too by Kaji ("Kensuke: Someone had to be sacrificed to stop the Third Impact").
The Gendo's line was a list of the effects that the four Impacts have.
It is possible Gendo is also speaking about the effects of the Near Third Impact (a name called by the Lilin).
PS: It is implied the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0 was stopped too by Kaji ("Kensuke: Someone had to be sacrificed to stop the Third Impact").
Re: Commander Nagisa and Kaji
Konja7 wrote: PS: It is implied the Third Impact between 2.0 and 3.0 was stopped too by Kaji ("Kensuke: Someone had to be sacrificed to stop the Third Impact").
Konja7, the feeling I get when you mention Kaji's sacrifice is that you are thinking in the sense of a ceremonial thing. I always thought that sacrifice was in the heroic sense like intercepting a bullet with your own body or jumping on a grenade to save someone. Please, don't be offended, but the image that comes to my head in a ritualistic sacrifice is the Kaji on an altar, with a priest removing his heart, still beating, with a curved knife and showing Lilith while shouting: "Vade retro, Lilith ! ". Sorry, but it would be tragicomic: so bizarre that it is funny!
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