Misato's relationship with Shinji in 3.0

[Reichu]

Wait, what? Did Gendo somehow hack into Wunder's computers?

Well, since you mention it... Mark.09 did.

[Kendrix]

He says something like "The Deicide is done", so Kaworu kicking the bucket seems to fit well with the plans (Later dialogue also suggests this, Gendo mentions this to Fuyu as a silver lining in what was mostly a narrowly-averted SEELE-style impact), but was there any indication that Gendo had an active hand in it?

The mk. 6 was under SEELE control when it did the hacking, so that wasn't under Gendo's direct control, either.
His plans would've been whatever he ordered ReiQ to do...

[Reichu]

He says something like "The Deicide is done"

Ah, that was from back when we were in early spoiler land. The actual line mentioning deicide:

01:17:12 The long desired Human Instrumentality Project,
01:17:15 and the contracted deicide, will be completed by me.

[Kendrix]

^aha, thx 4 clarifying.

[JoeD80]

So Misato did have a chance to push the button when Rei took Shinji away from the ship. Ritsuko even shouts at her to, and she still can't do it. So she still does have some compassion for Shinji at that point it seems to me.

[Darkwing]

Yeah. In a way it sort of reminds me of Misato's feelings for her father. She though she hated him. And yet... But I can't see the relationship between her and Shinji ever being like it was ever again.

[CJD]

I mentioned it in the camrip thread after watching it but seeing it in action definitely improved my interpretation of Misato in the movie. Statements about the intelligence of her actions aside she seems legitimately torn between what she wants and what she has to do.

With that in mind, I'm starting to think her cold attitude towards Shinji is less because of a hatred or fear of him and more because she's internally confused and/or conflicted. I think she wants to be happy that Shinji's alive, she wants to hug him and tell him she's happy he's safe, but she can't. She can't because Shinji's still a walking bomb, she can't because she can't show that weakness to her crew, and she can't because she just doesn't know a good way to do it. I think the way she acts in the prison cell scene is, in retrospect, more awkward than anything else, like there's something hanging in the air. In a way I think it's similar to the elevator scene between Rei and Asuka.

I also think it's important that while Asuka is letting out her anger Misato doesn't encourage her, even when Asuka looks to Misato for approval.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[A.T. Fish]

I mentioned it in the camrip thread after watching it but seeing it in action definitely improved my interpretation of Misato in the movie. Statements about the intelligence of her actions aside she seems legitimately torn between what she wants and what she has to do.

With that in mind, I'm starting to think her cold attitude towards Shinji is less because of a hatred or fear of him and more because she's internally confused and/or conflicted. I think she wants to be happy that Shinji's alive, she wants to hug him and tell him she's happy he's safe, but she can't. She can't because Shinji's still a walking bomb, she can't because she can't show that weakness to her crew, and she can't because she just doesn't know a good way to do it. I think the way she acts in the prison cell scene is, in retrospect, more awkward than anything else, like there's something hanging in the air. In a way I think it's similar to the elevator scene between Rei and Asuka.

I also think it's important that while Asuka is letting out her anger Misato doesn't encourage her, even when Asuka looks to Misato for approval.

I got the same vibe, she is concealing a great deal of emotions regarding Shinji, ranging from anger to pity, and to further conceal all of the conflict behind that facade they gave her sunglasses and an M.Bison cap to hide her expressions.

[Reichu]

and to further conceal all of the conflict behind that facade they gave her sunglasses and an M.Bison cap to hide her expressions.

And when she fails to press the trigger, they have facing away from the camera altogether...

[Darkwing]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Misato's feelings where Shinji is concerned are probably conflicted. I likened it her feelings for her father. Part of her is angry, and probably hates Shinji for the hell he caused. At the same time there is a part of her that remembers the kid she took under her wing, and is glad to see him, but also afraid to see him. She thought she could just harden her heart and hate him. But once it comes down to killing him, and rationally she should if she wants to make sure he can't cause an impact, she can't. Further complicating things, she was his commanding officer. I wouldn't be surprised if she feels her falures as such led to Shinji making the choices, and taking the actions he did.

For me the true message to Eva has aways seemed like "Peoples inabilties to convey their feelings and understand each other leads to suffering."

[Mbryo]

In my opinion the Wille crew has every right to blow Shinji up. It's pretty clear that Shinji is more than just a kid who could pilot Eva unlike in NGE; it seems that he is some kind of a key to triggering the impacts..................

[Kendrix]

In my opinion the Wille crew has every right to blow Shinji up. It's pretty clear that Shinji is more than just a kid who could pilot Eva unlike in NGE; it seems that he is some kind of a key to triggering the impacts..................

Classic Apocalypse Maiden plot, complete with the bad guys kidnapping them and the good guys agonizing about wether to kill him or not.

Except, he's human, he was feelings, he didn't want this any more than anyone else, and if no one had stuffed him into these biomechanical abominations, he probably wouldn't have harmed a fly in his life, we're talking about someone who couldn't even bring himself to risk a single human life (Asuka's) a while ago.
It could have been just about anyone else. Few 14-year-olds are beacons of virtue and maturity.

It's not that simple. Yeah, you could go by "the needs of the many..." but even then, you're still doing a smaller injustice - because you believe it will bring about greater benefits, but you'd still have bought your peace with blood.
Even if it's justified in the end, something was lost.

Also, one thing is keeping the potential impact key in check. Another thing is stuffing a kid into a cell without even proper clothing in the most dehumanizing manner possible, not even telling him why, and being emotionally mistreated by people who know very well which words will completely devastate him.
The lack of explanations was probably even downright counterproductive to preventing impact phenomena.

It's for a reason that Anno offers Sakura's "allright, stay away from the EVAs, but otherwise, I'm gonna treat you like a human." and Mari's "Join us and help!" as contrasts. But the latter comes far too late and just Sakura is simply not enough.
It doesn't help that these two are the people he knows the least.


There are desperate, corrupted people whose everyday life has become a living hell. Thus, they act with the same cruelty that people in say, certain parts of Africa or the middle-east have.
They've become partially savage, the world has become to harsh for them to be fair, and I guess that's only human nature, they would have to be downright saints to consider his feelings after all this.
It's also mainly time: Weeks knowing Shinji, the human, years in that postapocalyptic wasteland. Most likely, they've just forgotten.
Forgotten that he's a really nice, if insecure kid with likes and dislikes, quirks and hobbies, flaws and virtues, that he once went around doing normal kid things.


But that doesn't change that they did treat an unknowing fourteen-year-old with duhumanizing cruelty.

[Reichu]

But that doesn't change that they did treat an unknowing fourteen-year-old with duhumanizing cruelty.

Wille really didn't treat him that badly at all. It's been said before countless times: they didn't know what they were dealing with. They were continuing to analyze data and confirm Shinji's nature throughout the first part of the movie. Caution and, yes, perhaps some paranoia would be expected. If you were in Wille's position, I imagine you'd probably have a hard time suppressing your fear and anxiety. Even Sakura, with her heart of gold -- and nads of steel for personally escorting Impact-kun around -- doesn't give Shinji unconditional trust, as she admits that she "wants to forgive him".

The DSS Choker was a precautionary measure that they even explained to Shinji. It wasn't, "We're going to put a bomb on you because we lurve the evilz!", it was "like it or not, you're dangerous, and we need to err on the side of caution here".

If you want "dehumanizing cruelty", I'm sure we can spin up some scenarios of a truly evil and cruel Wille for your delectation.

[Ramiel²]

Impact-kun

Why did this make me laugh so much, gawd i allmost fall of my chair because of that..

[Rei IV]

I mentioned it in the camrip thread after watching it but seeing it in action definitely improved my interpretation of Misato in the movie. Statements about the intelligence of her actions aside she seems legitimately torn between what she wants and what she has to do.

With that in mind, I'm starting to think her cold attitude towards Shinji is less because of a hatred or fear of him and more because she's internally confused and/or conflicted. I think she wants to be happy that Shinji's alive, she wants to hug him and tell him she's happy he's safe, but she can't. She can't because Shinji's still a walking bomb, she can't because she can't show that weakness to her crew, and she can't because she just doesn't know a good way to do it. I think the way she acts in the prison cell scene is, in retrospect, more awkward than anything else, like there's something hanging in the air. In a way I think it's similar to the elevator scene between Rei and Asuka.

I also think it's important that while Asuka is letting out her anger Misato doesn't encourage her, even when Asuka looks to Misato for approval.

+1

Yes, yes, yes, yes! This 1000 times! That was EXACTLY my interpretation as well. This going to be longest response I've ever written in these forums, so bear with me!

While watching the camrip, I thought they were really going to let Shinji have it. After watching the WILLE scenes and his interactions with the crew, I felt misinformed. The gross exaggerations of mistreatment by Misato and co. were all false. Really the angry glares from Hyuga, Midori, Kohji and Sumire (three of the new characters that are introduced in the movie) and Ritsuko, as well as the cold shoulder from Misato, are pretty tame. I just cannot see any real venom, anger, and hatred towards Shinji, disappointment yes but other than that, I'm at loss about comparisons of treating him like some war criminal. Listen, I sympathize with Shinji a lot but come on, he doesn't have it that bad. Where in the heck did comparisons to Gendo come from!? Really? Misato as Gendo? Now that's just mean. Misato is in no way some angry, embittered bitch, in ANY shape or form looking to use Shinji as some whipping boy. No doubt in my mind she would love nothing more to hug him and tell Shinji what a relief that he's alright and etc....But like CJD mentioned, she would be demonstrating weakness, giving a unfavorable impression to her peers/crew.

Misato is 43 years old, she's much older, probably a lot wiser and slightly more cynical. Her interaction with Shinji at this point IS NOT, no matter how close they were and no matter how much she cared (or cares) for him, going to be same it was those 14 years ago. Misato is no longer that cheerful, slightly sloppy, reckless (in regards to certain aspects of her her persnal life), alcoholic 29 year old woman who took Shinji into her home more than a decade ago, so of course her treatment of him is going to differentiate than. The woman still probably sees him as her surrogate son and she probably still loves Shinji with all her heart (yes, I'm going with that) but knows she cannot demonstrate ANY affection because of the circumstances they're in. Hell, for all we know she'd probably let him "off the hook", so to speak, if she could but given the condition the world is in, she doesn't have that luxury or privilege to have such a mindset or the "moral authority" to make such a decision (especially with the damage Shinji caused), in other words, Shinji, hurt feelings and grievances come second to restoring the world and getting rid of the EVAs .

Another thing I took note of is that prior to Rei Q with Mark.09 busting in to "rescue" Shinji, Misato goes from referring to him as "Ikari Shinji-kun" to simply the way she would normally call him (Shinji-kun). I don't know about you guys, but I always thought of that as subtle demonstration some affection towards him. Sorry for the long wall-of-text and lengthy response but this is the first time I felt the need to defend a character. It's funny, Misato isn't my favorite (my favorite happens in my avatar ;p) character but was shocked at some people characterizing her as some angry, evil bitch talking vengeance on poor, widdle Shinji (and this is coming from someone who DOES sympathize with him, a lot) when in reality, it seems that she genuinely struggles to reconcile her feelings about him and doesn't know to react. It makes me respect and her appreciate character a lot more. It's really not that B&W.

Again, my humble apologies for this very, long, lengthy response but I had to put in my own 2 cents. I felt incredibly deceived about Misato's role in Evangelion 3.0 and the way she acted, especially towards Shinji. Felt the need to stick up for her.



BTW, I would also like to add Misato could very well blame herself for the 3rd impact and probably has some (vicious) self-hatred for herself but manages to "keep it cool". Remember, this is Evangelion, and she is one of the principal main characters and has her fair share of personal hang ups. She's already witnessed the 2nd Impact, which already scarred her imagine what the 3rd Impact has done, especially when it was caused by someone close to her, someone she loved/care for, and under her watch. I strongly believe Misato will be one of the first (or primary) characters who Shinji eventually reconciles his relationship with. Yes, things will never be the same between them but it probably will work out in the end.....Unless everyone gets tanged.

[Darkwing]

And the difference actually seeing it can make. Okay I'm not actually seeing it for a while, but anyways...

I'm not so sure I'd say this means Misato hasn't become more like Gendo, than I'd say it changes the way she's become like Gendo. In Rebuild we do get hints that Gendo does care about Shinji. But he's subordinated that to using Shinji to achieve his goals, and as we're seeing that is making Shinji, well Mr. Impacts. Now it sounds like Misato is in a sorta similer state. She can't really act on it if she has affection for Shinji. She's subordinated them in order to do what she has to as the Wunder's captain, and a high ranking Wille member. And in that role she really couldn't be welcoming Shinji back on the bridge and telling him she still loves him, even if she felt that way, and wanted to. I imagine her feelings are pretty mixed. As we see, she couldn't press that trigger when Rei Q grabbed him. Now I'm not compleatly clear if she did press the trigger when 4I started, or if it was the collar doing it automatically. At the same time if she does still care about, or have affection for Shinji, and can't show it, well that's very Gendo like. Shinji sucks at reading people. Really sucks. He can't pick up on the little cues, and of course he didn't see her hesitating to pull the trigger.

Anyways the crux of what I'm trying to say is Misato may be like Gendo in that both have put there feelings for Shinji under their acting to achieve their goals. This isn't to say Misato's as bad as Gendo in what she's trying to do. She's not. But like Gendo, her relationship with Shinji is a victim of this.

Of course if Shinji had been at Wille longer it might have been different. Misato might have realized that Shinji is still that same confused kid, and that he never wanted to cause the death of most of mankind. Maybe go and actually talk to him. Hell just think what even "Shinji despite everything, I am glad your alive." would have done. But of course that didn't happen.

[slothen]

Misato is far too hotblooded to be compared to gendo, even as the Wunder-commander.

[ultrassjstuart]

I did also notice the way Misato changed her way of referring to Shinji from 'Ikari Shinji' to 'Shinji-kun'
and for those who may have thought she was simply putting on a subtly more open act to convince him to stay, she does call him it again during the final fight as Near4I begins. She sort of looks down under her hat and whispers tensely 'Shinji-kun...'

Still thinking of him even when the world ends, as this is in the middle of the operation when Ritsuko is shouting orders and what they need to do, she suddenly just turns away and whispers it to herself. Bit of an odd thing to think about at such a crucial time, what about Asuka and Mari? Why suddenly focus on just that one person to dwell her thoughts on if it really wasnt someone she cared about in some way?

And for those also going on about how bad 4I was, from what I saw it didn't really expand that far before Kaworu's death and Mari pulling the spears from Unit-13 halted it and it just sort of folded in again.

In fact Misato and Ritsuko seemed relieved, Ritsuko saying 'Fourth Impact was stopped, but we don't know who it is to thank.'

Oddly this all seems to be part of Gendo's plan as he's heard saying that 'Captain Katsuragi is still acting within expectations'
Anyone think maybe Ritsuko could be a spy, Still fawning over Gendo?

And as for going right back to Wille (sorry i still think it's a dumb name) Asuka says they're 'going to where the lilin are' which doesnt neccesarily mean wille. Also Asuka was last seen self-destructing Unit-02 and the Wunder is seen flying off. Who knows if they even know if Asuka, Rei and Shinji are alive...

And is there anyone who can tell me if Misato was still wearing her cross pendant? I'm not sure i saw it anywhere and that's a big part of her backstory. Bit of an odd bit of her normal decor to lose without explanation.

[Rei IV]

Yes! I noticed that scene recently too! Unfortunately, there seems to be some audio issues in the camrip during that scene that I missed it the first time. Misato does still care about Shinji. I liken her relationship with Shinji at this point to that of a very, disappointed mother scolding her child for he something wrong they did. Now, I know that seems like a pretty weak analogy, but let's face it, Misato is probably the only one in who comes even close to a "mother figure" to Shinji in the Rebuild Evangelion movies. No hatred or malice from what I see.

Again, she's not same Misato she was 14 years ago, so I'll say it once more, her interaction with her Shinji-kun is going to be a lot different than it would be if she were her old self again. For crying out loud, she's 43 years old at this point! What is she going to say to Shinji? "Oh, Shinji-kun, even though you blew up the planet to smithereens by initiating the 3rd Impact and annihilating much of the world's population, I still love you and I'm so glad to see you're alright *hugs*", really, what is her reaction going to be?

So much for the claims by certain folks of her being a evil, heartless bitch.