NME & NGE: Gendo/Seele/Powers That Be SPLIT

[SaltyJoe]

Again, some replies, again, a tad belatedly:

Besides, taking out Misato would just result in Gendo commanding battles himself. The Bardiel fight proved to us that Gendo was also perfectly capable of winning Angel battles without Misato's help. (Maintaining staff and pilot morale is not really an issue if you're planning to end human civilization in a few months' time.)

When the Dummy Plug, The Lance or any other convenience is available, sure. But this engagement also makes it clear that Gendo is useless as a squad leader: he couldn't handle a three on one situation with a clear advantage on Nerv's side (talking about NGE here, it's not like this discussion has been restricted to NME so far).

Moving on, the majority of your (Jornophelanthas) points deal with Gedno having lots of tools and winning cards at his disposal. That's all true, but in this, you ignore something rather basic: if they take out Gendo himself, none of that is an issue anymore.

And about the U.N. mandate: i'm pretty sure that Seele's influence was what got him the mandate in the first place.

Exactly this. Re-read the part of this post four paragraphs back: Gendo was holding all the cards after SEELE lost Kaworu, and SEELE knew it. After all, they still needed either Lilith (possibly only Rei) or Unit-01 for their own project, and Gendo held those.

The point i was getting at is not that he held them, but more that if Seele knew about the emotional sway Gendo had over Rei, moreover, if that sway was something vital to their plans, then yeah, they can't just get rid of Gendo. Breaking out some other Nerv commander? Easy, but replacing the pseudo-father/husband/lover figure of the ancient lifeseeding creature is something only girly boys can do who are good at cooking.

[Jornophelanthas]

Moving on, the majority of your (Jornophelanthas) points deal with Gedno having lots of tools and winning cards at his disposal. That's all true, but in this, you ignore something rather basic: if they take out Gendo himself, none of that is an issue anymore.

And I'm saying for the third time now that Gendo has taken precautions against assassinations and kidnappings by no longer leaving the Geofront. He also ignored a direct summons by SEELE and sent Ritsuko instead.
"Taking him out" was no longer an option for SEELE by the time they were suspicious enough to consider it.
(Not to be rude, but you've ignored this argument multiple times now.)

And about the U.N. mandate: i'm pretty sure that Seele's influence was what got him the mandate in the first place.

Correct. However, this took time and effort through global politics. If your favored candidate who has been given an outrageous U.N. mandate is no longer your personal favorite, it's not possible to just have him dismissed with a simple phonecall to a world leader. This, again, takes months of preparation, campaigning and greasing the right palms.
Especially if the person is ostensibly doing his job well in the public eye. Which is the case for Gendo and his team, since they saved the world about fifteen times over. The politicians (who had no inkling about Human Instrumentality) had no reason to doubt his performance.
Keep in mind that SEELE is a behind-the-curtain secret society, and not a direct influence in world politics. They are a lobby group with no immediate power, apart from being in the process of building a squad of MP Evangelions that can replace NERV in due time.

Unfortunately, "due time" is exactly what Gendo did not give them. The attack on NERV by JSSDF and SEELE was rushed, as SEELE could only deploy nine of their twelve MP EVAs, three having not yet been completed.

The point i was getting at is not that he held [all the cards], but more that if Seele knew about the emotional sway Gendo had over Rei, moreover, if that sway was something vital to their plans, then yeah, they can't just get rid of Gendo. Breaking out some other Nerv commander? Easy, but replacing the pseudo-father/husband/lover figure of the ancient lifeseeding creature is something only girly boys can do who are good at cooking.

I agree that SEELE had learned about Rei's true nature. However, they did so rather late, only slightly earlier than the audience:
- Rei's file was blank; NERV had made sure no record existed of her past or origins. Since NERV was also the Marduk Institute that selected pilots, this was easily done.
- SEELE's kidnapping of Fuyutsuki gave them reason to re-examine Yui's failed contact experiment with Lilith. I am speculating here, but this probably gave them pause to connect the dots between Rei and Yui (through physical resemblance), and finally between Rei and Lilith (through comparison to their own Kaworu project).
- SEELE summoned Gendo and ordered him to bring Rei. Gendo refused, and sent Ritsuko instead. SEELE broke Ritsuko's spirit and she told them all the secrets she had kept for Gendo out of spite, most notably Rei's origins. After her return, she revealed this to Misato and Shinji, as well.
- Only now did SEELE realize the depth of Gendo's treachery (seeing their earlier suspicions confirmed in the worst possible way). It was far too late to have him removed from office (because Gendo had the advantage of time), or to have him forcibly removed (because Gendo had holed himself up in the Geofront). My guess is that they feared his possession of both Adam and Lilith, and that he could initiate their "forbidden union" at any time, which would defeat SEELE utterly. So they felt he forced their hand.

This was when they got really nervous about Gendo, and started pulling out all they had in order to stop him.
- SEELE sent Kaworu as a favorable gambit to defeat Gendo. As I posted above, this would amount to a win-win scenario for them: If Kaworu succeeded, SEELE would have their Human Instrumentality immediately. If he failed (which was the case), NERV's Evangelions and pilots would be weakened and open for direct attack. And Kaworu's chances of success were above average, since nobody in Tokyo-3 knew about his existence or true nature, so he could pose as a new (and fully-trained) pilot. The ruse worked: Kaworu drew some suspicions from Gendo, Ritsuko and Fuyutsuki, but too late to stop him from descending to Terminal Dogma.
- SEELE's plan during EoE was to have JSSDF kill all the Evangelion pilots and secure Unit-01 and (probably - speculation mode: ON) the dummy plug system (which they didn't know Ritsuko had destroyed already). They wanted to use either Lilith herself or Unit-01 (piloted by a mindless Rei dummy plug) in their MP EVA ritual to start Human Instrumentality.
(Rei was useless to them, as she was deemed to loyal to Gendo, and Shinji as well, because what son would not be loyal to his own father? So they had to be killed on sight. Asuka was merely dangerous if she were ever to successfully pilot Unit-02 again, and her death warrant was just a safety precaution to disable Unit-02.)
Instead, what SEELE got was Unit-01 piloted by a mentally unstable Shinji, and their ritual did not get them Lilith to do their bidding, but a hybrid of Lilith and Adam with fragments of Rei's and Kaworu's consciousnesses that handed the fate of the world to mentally unstable Shinji.
And outside of this, they were never even aware that Unit-01 was itself not mindless, but had a semi-consciousness and volition of its own: Yui's.

So even though Human Instrumentality almost went the way SEELE wanted, there were so many factors outside of their control - not all of which were Gendo's doing - that they cannot be said to have actually controlled the destiny of humankind at any point.
This tragic irony is - in my mind - one of the main themes of Evangelion: Man is never fully in control of his own destiny. Not Gendo, not SEELE, and not even Shinji the chosen one (although he did get the final decision, getting to that point was fully outside of his own control, and more of a coincidence than anything else).

EDIT: formatting

[symbv]

I believe that what happened in 3rd Impact and EoE does not necessarily have just one valid interpretation. I would say that your interpretation looks generally valid, I just want to point out one thing:

> So even though Human Instrumentality almost went the way SEELE wanted, there were so many factors outside of their control

You mentioned Yui, I also want to point out that on top of that, the "forbidden union" between Lilith and Adam had been initiated by Gendou. Rei rejected Gendou to be further part in it but she did take in Adam planted in his hand. So a few things had already gone against SEELE quite early and I am not sure if it can be said that HIP really went the way SEELE wanted -- on the surface this might be so (hence the happy face of Kiel) but what actually happened seems more a mix of SEELE and Gendou version, with a few wildcards like Yui and Rei thrown in the mix.

I also want to mention one theory that seems to me also to be valid, and it has SEELE planted Kaworu to either got HI going or weakened Shinji - here the assumption is that SEELE would know to use Unit-01 for HI most likely they would have Shinji in it as well (of course if he happens to be killed, then dummy plug would be needed). Asuka has no use in HI (because she pilots Unit-02) so she could just be killed - her brutal death in front of Shinji just helped Shinji to wish for death more, all the better for SEELE.

[Jornophelanthas]

I believe that what happened in 3rd Impact and EoE does not necessarily have just one valid interpretation. I would say that your interpretation looks generally valid, I just want to point out one thing:

> So even though Human Instrumentality almost went the way SEELE wanted, there were so many factors outside of their control

You mentioned Yui, I also want to point out that on top of that, the "forbidden union" between Lilith and Adam had been initiated by Gendou. Rei rejected Gendou to be further part in it but she did take in Adam planted in his hand. So a few things had already gone against SEELE quite early and I am not sure if it can be said that HIP really went the way SEELE wanted -- on the surface this might be so (hence the happy face of Kiel) but what actually happened seems more a mix of SEELE and Gendou version, with a few wildcards like Yui and Rei thrown in the mix.

I agree with you, but perhaps you misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. My point was that nobody had full control of Third Impact at any point of its preparation, initiation, completion and reversal. All the players (Kiel, Gendo, Yui, Kaworu, Kaji's superiors) and their pawns (Ritsuko, Misato, Kaji, Rei, Shinji, Asuka) were so busy maneuvering to get the project work a certain way (or stop it entirely), that what finally happened was outside anybody's control, with Rei and Shinji suddenly becoming players rather than pawns.
What actually went down was planned nor controlled by any human party (or Angel), which serves as one of the morals of the story.

I also want to mention one theory that seems to me also to be valid, and it has SEELE planted Kaworu to either got HI going or weakened Shinji - here the assumption is that SEELE would know to use Unit-01 for HI most likely they would have Shinji in it as well (of course if he happens to be killed, then dummy plug would be needed). Asuka has no use in HI (because she pilots Unit-02) so she could just be killed - her brutal death in front of Shinji just helped Shinji to wish for death more, all the better for SEELE.

I again agree with you that Kaworu's interest in Shinji was initially based on SEELE's instructions, perhaps to assess whether he would turn against his father. Still, the friendship developed its own momentum rather quickly.

[symbv]

I agree with you, but perhaps you misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. My point was that nobody had full control of Third Impact at any point of its preparation, initiation, completion and reversal. All the players (Kiel, Gendo, Yui, Kaworu, Kaji's superiors) and their pawns (Ritsuko, Misato, Kaji, Rei, Shinji, Asuka) were so busy maneuvering to get the project work a certain way (or stop it entirely), that what finally happened was outside anybody's control, with Rei and Shinji suddenly becoming players rather than pawns.

I did get your point. I think you made it quite clear in your post. My point is just to expand on your thesis by bringing up details that showed how unlikely that SEELE got HI to go their way even though they seemed to be winning so clearly on the surface. If we have to find someone who is in control during the HI, it would be Rei(Lilith), at least at the early stage. (who is in control in the later stage is more subject to debate). She started to become a player instead of pawn as soon as she not only rejected Gendou but took Adam from him.

I again agree with you that Kaworu's interest in Shinji was initially based on SEELE's instructions, perhaps to assess whether he would turn against his father. Still, the friendship developed its own momentum rather quickly.

Sadly the friendship thus developed ended up hurting Shinji even more when Kaworu chose to sacrifice himself, and this played into SEELE's hand unfortunately.

[SaltyJoe]

And I'm saying for the third time now that Gendo has taken precautions against assassinations and kidnappings by no longer leaving the Geofront. He also ignored a direct summons by SEELE and sent Ritsuko instead.
"Taking him out" was no longer an option for SEELE by the time they were suspicious enough to consider it.
(Not to be rude, but you've ignored this argument multiple times now.)

I didn't address "he is inside the Geofront" because, well, i don't think that would constitute such a tremendous problem for the organization that built place to overcome. It's not like the Geofront is locked up airtight, either. Most of the staff goes home after work, meaning there are likely to be several open points for entry (nothing a few fake ID's and forged papers and a little hacking and perhaps a touch of bribery couldn't overcome), and all it takes is a power outage, and even a bunch of schoolkids can stumble into the command room. Come on, do i have to write the plot for the hitjob too?

[Jornophelanthas]

I didn't address "he is inside the Geofront" because, well, i don't think that would constitute such a tremendous problem for the organization that built place to overcome. It's not like the Geofront is locked up airtight, either. Most of the staff goes home after work, meaning there are likely to be several open points for entry (nothing a few fake ID's and forged papers and a little hacking and perhaps a touch of bribery couldn't overcome), and all it takes is a power outage, and even a bunch of schoolkids can stumble into the command room. Come on, do i have to write the plot for the hitjob too?

I don't recall Kensuke ever stumbling into the command room, and he was a schoolkid who had the drive and most of the means you listed.

In EoE, we are told that NERV HQ was built to withstand Angel attacks, but was also deliberately designed to be unable to defend against military incursions (as we witnessed).
Despite this deliberate construction flaw, base security was one of Gendo's responsibilities as commander (which was probably delegated somewhere offscreen), and this was certainly not a duty he shirked, given how much he had to protect from SEELE.
You want a list? Three Evangelions in separate hangars, one of which containing his wife. Countless weapons of Evangelion-grade quality. Prisoner holding cells. Various failed Evangelion prototypes. The original MAGI supercomputer. The dummy plug lab and Reiquarium. The Adam embryo. Lilith herself.
Gendo did NOT want schoolkids or anyone else to go poking around any of these places, and kept most of these a secret from even his trusted third-in-command (Misato).
Granted, Misato did see those things, but only because Kaji and Ritsuko showed her. Kaji enjoyed a modicum of (misplaced) trust from Gendo which afforded him some leeway to snoop around, and Ritsuko had actual clearance. Both suffered unfortunate consequences for those acts not long after.

Too long? Here's the short version:
NERV HQ is a high-security military base storing the most dangerous technologies known to man, as well as a research facility dedicated to cloning aliens. It is preposterous to assume that it would not have enough security to allow anyone to just sneak in if they didn't have an army to back them up.

[SaltyJoe]

By schoolkids, i was obviously referring to the Eva pilots in epiosde 11. First they got out of the base via a blastdoor, then went back in, and comically ended up in the command room. Meaning that during a power outage, all a possible intruder needs is knowledge on where to find a suitable opening, and he is basically in. I guess it's not too much of a stretch to think that a world class team of infiltrators could get past a blastdoor and would generally act more competently than the kids.

As for boldraging:
Seele isn't some clueless third party who knows nothing about the base where Gendo resides. They funded it's construction, fund it's operation and generally provide everything that's needed to keep the place running. To assume that they would not know how to get past any security measures Gendo might throw at them when they clearly have the upper hand in most every way imaginable is to deny even the faintest notion of competence from them. Which might a correct assumption, given their general conduct.

But if the assassination attempt scenario seems to implausible, here is an alternative: have the U.N. soldiers who man the base in question receive an order to arrest him. No justifications, just a fake order to take him into custody.

That said, i feel like i'm really ignoring the series to push this "What could Seele have done to remove Gendo?" line of thought, so i'll just state a final opininon: whatever it was that ultimately kept Seele from taking early action, i highly doubt that it had to do with them not having the means to strike at Gendo, and only Gendo directly.

[robersora]

By schoolkids, i was obviously referring to the Eva pilots in epiosde 11. First they got out of the base via a blastdoor, then went back in, and comically ended up in the command room. Meaning that during a power outage, all a possible intruder needs is knowledge on where to find a suitable opening, and he is basically in. I guess it's not too much of a stretch to think that a world class team of infiltrators could get past a blastdoor and would generally act more competently than the kids.

Well that's true. Also, Misato and Kaji have sneaked in almost everywhere without somebody noticing it. (ok, they could have just tolerated it, but I hope you get what I wanted to say)

[Jornophelanthas]

By schoolkids, i was obviously referring to the Eva pilots in epiosde 11.

I missed that reference. It has been too long for me since I saw that episode.

I guess it's not too much of a stretch to think that a world class team of infiltrators could get past a blastdoor and would generally act more competently than the kids.

Organisations learn. After a power outage, NERV is likely to take some measures to prevent a power outage to paralyze them the way it did in that episode.
About a crack team gaining entry to the base: episode 11 was when Gendo was still freely travelling the world. When he stopped doing that, and if he suspected SEELE from suspecting him, he likely also upped security measures.
No evidence on-screen, just common sense.

As for boldraging:
Seele isn't some clueless third party who knows nothing about the base where Gendo resides. They funded it's construction, fund it's operation and generally provide everything that's needed to keep the place running. To assume that they would not know how to get past any security measures Gendo might throw at them when they clearly have the upper hand in most every way imaginable is to deny even the faintest notion of competence from them. Which might a correct assumption, given their general conduct.

SEELE knew a a lot about that base. But not everything. Ever since Gehirn was disbanded and NERV was founded, it's quite likely that Gendo already cut off their direct access to exactly what he was doing there. Not coincidentally, this was about the same time that he recruited Ritsuko.

And just to pre-empt an objection: the only UN authority Gendo received in episode 1 was the authority to deploy the Evangelions against the Angels unhindered by any government, over and above any other military group.

But if the assassination attempt scenario seems to implausible, here is an alternative: have the U.N. soldiers who man the base in question receive an order to arrest him. No justifications, just a fake order to take him into custody.

So if SEELS is not a clueless and incompetent organization, the U.N. must be?

That said, i feel like i'm really ignoring the series to push this "What could Seele have done to remove Gendo?" line of thought,

We agree.

so i'll just state a final opininon: whatever it was that ultimately kept Seele from taking early action, i highly doubt that it had to do with them not having the means to strike at Gendo, and only Gendo directly.

I tend to agree with this. I am of the opinion that Gendo was quite successful at hiding his treachery from them, up until the point SEELE saw reason to kidnap Fuyutsuki. At that point, it was too late to go after Gendo, otherwise they probably would have done so.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Considering how "chummy" Kiel seemed with Gendo (eg, their talks a few months before 2I in Death), he probably delayed any attacks on Nerv until needed. They had to wait until all the Angels were defeated for 3I anyway so might as well bid time by digging into Gendo's backstabbing (Kaji, Fuyutsuki, Ritsuko).

Also, no talk in this thread about IPEA or Nerv Europe? It was split for NME discussion too.

[Jornophelanthas]

Also, no talk in this thread about IPEA or Nerv Europe? It was split for NME discussion too.

I have a theory about Kaji's agenda in Rebuild, but that doesn't actually relate to Gendo or SEELE, so probably doesn't belong in this thread.

[driftking18594]

I'm guessing that IPEA's a front to stop SEELE's plans, but seeing as it's under the UN's control (and the UN are basically at SEELE's beck and call) I think that's unlikely.

As for Kaji's agenda, I think it's the same as last time - he wants to find out the truth.

[Jornophelanthas]

Okay, I'm giving my Kaji post in this thread anyway.

I believe that global politics in the Rebuild universe is worked out in more detail than in NGE. Also, I believe Rebuild-Kaji is an actual player in the game rather than merely a pawn who found out too much.

Recall that in NGE, Kaji was (most likely) an agent of the Japanese government infiltrating NERV to find out what their secret agenda was, and he stumbled upon the Human Instrumentality Project, and some of Gendo's schemes (most of which were still in line with SEELE's agenda). It is quite likely that the Japanese government gave Kaji the Adam embryo as a way to get close to Gendo.
In my opinion, at least part of his rekindled relationship with Misato was a tactic to get close to one of NERV's superior officers and to get her to turn. He probably enjoyed this part of his work, because he actually wanted the relationship to work, even though he most likely knew that chances of them both surviving were slim.
He got killed for learning too much. It is left unclear whether it was Gendo or Kiel who ordered his death.

The rest of this post will discuss Rebuild-Kaji. I will address the following items:
1. The connection between Kaji and Mari
2. Clues towards Kaji's agenda
3. Clues towards Mari's agenda

1. The connection between Kaji and Mari
I believe Kaji has recruited Mari to serve his agenda. While this argument has already been made by others, I'll just list the clues:
- Kaji speaks English at Bethania Base, where Mari is about to launch. Mari is later seen speaking English to someone on the phone after her landing on top of Shinji('s school rooftop). No other (named) characters are heard speaking their lines in English, and had these lines been spoken in Japanese, nobody would have cared.
- At the end of the Unit-05 battle Kaji and Mari both leave the scene and speak mirroring lines. Kaji tells himself that "it is hard to manipulate children to serve the needs of adults", while Mari tells herself that "it is hard to manipulate the adults to serve the needs of children".
- Kaji is strangely absent around the time of Mari's deployment in Unit-02, and reappears only after Unit-02 has been deactivated. Mari and his watermelons have to stand in for him to move Shinji to pilot Unit-01.
All these suggest Anno shows a conscious connection between the characters of Kaji and Mari, specifically that they are working together.

2. Clues towards Kaji's agenda
I believe Kaji to be in league with a faction that wants all Evangelion technology destroyed, quite possibly under the assumption that the Angels will then go away, too. This could be a government, a political factino within the UN, an international group of radical environmentalists, or even the Vatican, but it's not really important. He could even have gone rogue. Rebuild-Kaji has infiltrated NERV Europe, and has become quite knowledgeable about Evangelion technology. This is not surprising, because the U.N. appear to know much more about Evangelion technology in this continuity as well.
So how do I come to this theory? First of all, notice that events during Mari's first battle in Rebuild 2.0 are... strange. There appears to be a lot of sabotage around Unit-05's functioning, given that its limbs somehow break too easily, and some of its weapons malfunction. Mari was probably not meant to survive.
Also, the Third Angel's escape itself is suspect. Why could it escape its confinement, when it had been successfully kept there for years? The base commander even asks this out loud, to which Kaji responds with a lot of English mumbo-jumbo about how human means cannot possibly match an Angel's sheer power. And then he smiles and leaves.
I believe this to be indicative that Kaji himself released the Angel. (Who knows, perhaps the Key of Nebuchadnezzar was the one thing that kept the Angel in check, and he removed it? He is seen with the armored briefcase while on board his plane.)
He probably also had a hand in sabotaging Unit-05 to the extent that Mari would be forced to use its self-destruct to prevent the Angel from escaping. Between this and the Angel's swath of destruction, this would very likely result in the destruction of the entire base. Which happened.
Kaji was very satisfied with the end result: Bethany base blown up, Third Angel destroyed, Unit-05 destroyed, and the Key of Nebuchadnezzar in his possession. No Angels, no Evangelions, and clear sailing from there.
If this theory about Kaji's agenda is true, then Kaji obviously did not want Mari to survive. Which may be the regret he voiced as he sighed how regrettable it is for "adults to be using children".

Another clue about Kaji's motivations can be found in the entire aquarium sequence. Why does he show the initiative to take the kids to see an ocean life preservation facility? And why does he tell Shinji about the horrors of Second Impact, and the responsibility Misato (as its sole survivor) has to perform her job, for the sake of all who perished?
He takes the kids there to see how the world used to be, and should be. The things he tells Shinji about responsibility might not necessarily reflect Misato's sense of duty, but rather his own. Basically, what Kaji is saying is that he considers himself a Second Impact survivor simply because he was alive at the time it happened, and this mere fact fuels his actions. I am implying here that he will go to any lengths to protect and preserve the Earth, for the sake of the millions upon millions who died as a result of Second Impact. And whose fault was Second Impact? Both the Angels and the humans who were foolish enough to meddle with Angels.
(Also, when we see Kaji tending to his melon patch, this again depicts him as being devoted to nature, and thus opposed to technology.)

I am painting Kaji as a radical opponent of everything NERV and SEELE stand for, but at the same time he is up to his neck in the conspiracies and secret technologies himself. This is his hypocrisy: he is fighting fire with fire, sending Evangelions into battle against Angels in the hope that the two will destroy each other. He is sacrificing his principles to pursue his agenda, because the end justifies the means. Where it gets him is what Shinji sees when Unit-02 lifts him out of the bomb shelter:
A barren land with burnt and dead melon plants.

In this sense, Kaji is just as fallible as Kiel, Gendo and their ilk.

3. Clues towards Mari's agenda
As I've already argued, Kaji and Mari are not on the same side, although they do work together. Kaji feels some guilt over sacrificing a young girl for the sake of the planet. However, at the same time, Mari feels some guilt over manipulating Kaji to get what she wants. (Recall that, as Mari emerges from her entry plug after she ejects from the self-destructing Unit-05, she says that she "regrets manipulating adults to serve the needs of children".)

I cannot present a complete theory about Mari's long-term plans, but I do have some thoughts about her involvement and possible (short-term) motivations:
- Mari likes piloting Evangelions. She enjoys the rush, and finds the smell of LCL (on Shinji) pleasing. She also complains that "Shinji gets all the fun" when he initiates Near-Third Impact. Perhaps she simply has the wish to see action as an Evangelion pilot. Unlikely, but not entirely implausible.
- Mari knows at least as much about the technical aspects of Evangelions as Ritsuko does. Furthermore, Mari entered Japan covertly by parachute dropping, and managed to reach Unit-02 without NERV's knowledge.
- Mari obviously receives significant assistance from a well-equipped group: the education, the parachute dropping, the clearance for Unit-02, the pink plugsuit, the fact that NERV does not seem to know of her existence or presence.
- Mari has clearly been trained as a special operative, since she acts like one all the time. This could be an opening to let her fill the role of someone who snoops around NERV HQ and discovers a lot of the Evangelion project's dirty secrets. I am predicting her to be the one to take over Ritsuko's role from NGE of destroying the Rei clones, but she could also just as well be the one to discover Lilith's true nature and/or identity.

So what does this all add up to?
We get one excellent clue about who the party supporting Mari might be: Unit-02 is launched against the 10th Angel ("Zeruel") with clearance from the Europeans, i.e. NERV EU.
(A secondary clue is her British background, which consists of her intended-as-British accent while speaking on the phone and the reference to HMS Illustrious in her name.)
NERV EU is also a very decent cover for Kaji, since he is clearly presented to Gendo as a NERV representative, and would have used the same clearance to be in Bethania Base.

Another thing we can surmise is that Mari's statement of "using adults to serve the needs of children" suggests, however, that Mari is not truly on their side, but entirely her own. She could be any of the following:
- She could be an impulsive, instinct-driven, slightly unstable girl with no other intentions than to kick alien butt. Perhaps she even has a hero complex.
- She could be an Angel in human form, only less emotionally awkward than Rei (but not by very much), and less obviously supernatural than Kaworu, instinctively seeking to achieve Third Impact. ("That Shinji guy gets all the fun.") Perhaps her soul is even that of one of the four "Adams".
- She could be a deranged child prodigy with a crackpot theory of wanting to be the one Evangelion pilot to achieve Human Instrumentality, so that she can reshape reality according to her whims. Not unlike Gendo, if you think about it.
- She could be an altruistic deranged child prodigy with a crackpot theory of wanting to be the one Evangelion pilot to achieve Human Instrumentality, so that she can turn the world into a paradise for everyone.
- She could be the incarnation of one of the "Seeds of Life" if those exist as such in Rebuild continuity, perhaps Adam, perhaps Lilith, or perhaps even a third.
- She could be something else entirely.

It is clear that some of these theories are farfetched, and none of them can be anywhere near accurate. Whatever and whoever she is, Mari is her own side. And if she indeed has an agenda related to Third Impact or Human Instrumentality, she will most likely become an obstacle between Shinji and his personal growth at some point.

Also, I expect Mari to betray or otherwise repay Kaji at some point for leaving her to die, most likely resulting in his death.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Just curious, what subtitles are using? Eva-05 being a pawn and screwed over does seem to be part of what's up: Kaji's goals so far were the Key and snooping about, Mari's goals are...? Mari can't be a SoL because she doesn't have red eyes/pale skin, but being a FAR was jokingly mentioned before. (And NGE implied Seele killed off Kaji; "the bell around Ikari's neck wasn't taking action".)

[symbv]

Okay, I'm giving my Kaji post in this thread anyway.

Perhaps even better to put it in the "Evangelion 3.0 Speculation" thread?
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/6938/Evangelion-30-Speculation/

BTW, some people think Kaji in NGE is an agent of Seele instead of Japanese government.

[Alaska Slim]

By schoolkids, i was obviously referring to the Eva pilots in epiosde 11. First they got out of the base via a blastdoor, then went back in, and comically ended up in the command room. Meaning that during a power outage, all a possible intruder needs is knowledge on where to find a suitable opening, and he is basically in.

Except don't forget, they had back up generators, and expecting every single one to fail was something not accounted to happen.

All security measures going dark even in this event? Yeah, it may be something of an oversight, but one I found rather believable. NERV was practically constructed overnight, and was STILL being worked on as the show progressed, oversights would have been common for the sake of cost.

Security is many times a game of trade offs and mitigation, you sacrifice coverage in one area, to ensure you have enough to cover where you think the threats actually lie.

They had a good reason for their expectation that the generators would always being there, failing to account for when its not is something I can easily relate real-world.

For instance, what's to stop aircraft from crashing into our Nuclear powerplants? On site, nothing, either NORAD stops them, or nothing does (better pray for clear weather and close-by patrols). Then you get into mitigation, how well built are the shells to stand up to the impact? Are their redundant coolant pumps, and are they spread out to ensure one keeps working even if one is hit? Etc...

Also, I expect Mari to betray or otherwise repay Kaji at some point for leaving her to die, most likely resulting in his death.

Meh, thematically, I'd think that would require Mari to acknowledge she had been "betrayed" at some point in the prior film.

All she did in 2.0 was give short thanks to EVA-05.

You may think she was left die, but I think she felt she was just being left to do what she loves most all; piloting EVA-05 (Kaji didn't leave just as she killed Angel).

If that left her in some short term mortal-peril in the aftermath, so be it. Misato clearly didn't blame Gendo for worse (she wasn't in an Eva), so I don't expect the same from her.