NME Visual Direction [Split]

[Hyper Shinchan]

The critic to the "generic style" is the last frontier of the "hate", congratulations for your efforts...

[Nonoriri]

Well Anno did animate some of it; he has a credit in key animation. Matsubara is only one of four animation directors on the movie though (Suzuki, Honda, and Okuda being the others), and Sadamoto himself is credited as an assistant animation director.

I say Matsubara is the character animation director because for the most part the characters in both films most look like his official art/style released for NME. (Suzuki and Okuda of course probably also corrected various elements including characters as well) The fact that he has done so much official character art in general is another sign. Honda is the mechanical animation director by the way.

@ Hyper: Nah I posted all of this here last year, it mostly got ignored.

[JoeD80]

Well Honda certainly does a lot of mechanical animation but he can do the characters as well. The official evastore sells some of his character art. That recent NewType cover with Asuka was by him as well I believe.

[katastroff]

I felt the same way about how NME is a lot less dark and gritty as the original. I always point out how they make Evas too flashy in NME to the point where it gets trivial. The original made sure to have Evas move rigidly and mechanical for the most part, reserving the especially brutal and primal movements for the berserk scenes. That distinction, and how it was executed for exclusive moments is why, at least for me, there are so many memorable moments in NGE.

In NME, the direction they take with Evas have no mystery to them, especially when 1.0 didn't do the "unmasking" scene. That spoke volumes for me as to the direction of the movies in general, which seems to be going for cheap spectacles.

I realize I might be hating, and I sort of am, but in truth the direction NME takes is actually a very smart one. Its hard to achieve the suspense in the original with only a few films to work with. I guess its not wrong to say action films are supposed to be all about the cheap spectacles, and if thats true, NME does it very well.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Well, spectacle is a large part of NME, yes. But it's not like Michael Bay's transformers movies where no effort is put into anything other than spectacle.

Though, the lack of mystery seems for of a narrative change to me. The art direction was effected by it, but that decision seems to me to stem from a change narrative tone rather than a visual one.

Though, I'm not sure what everyone means NME being a "lighter" film. I mean, it's more optimistic than NGE, yes. But the lighting itself, which does stem from a visual art direction, is actually darker in most cases than NGE. I guess this varies depending on the scene, though. The battle with the 10th Angel for 2.22 didn't take place on quite as dark a night as it did in Episode 19 of NGE. The same is true for the 9th Angel attack. But most everything else about NME's lighting and cinematography is lit darker than NGE. It might have something to do with the digital gradient shadows people kept complaining about earlier, which I just believe help add shape and definition to the characters, which is part of the cinematographer's job description in the first place anyway.

[symbv]

Hironori Matsubara's animation character designs (probably anyway) are really weak looking and just like how the soft focus blur might undermine otherwise excellent mechanical animation,

One small thing: The animation director is Hidenori Matsubara 松原秀典. Hironori Matsubara 　松原弘典　is a famous architect in Japan. No family relation I believe.

[Warren Peace]

The original made sure to have Evas move rigidly and mechanical for the most part, reserving the especially brutal and primal movements for the berserk scenes. That distinction, and how it was executed for exclusive moments is why, at least for me, there are so many memorable moments in NGE.

I really don't know how you got that impression -- the Evas were always fluid, berserk or no. After all, they were physical extensions of the pilot. I can't think of any scene where they moved at all mechanically.

I think "lack of mystery" is mostly in the minds of those who have seen NGE. People new to Rebuild are going to be wondering where the Evas came from, and why Gendo refers to Unit-01 using the name of Shinji's dead mother. Plenty of mystery there!

[Sachi]

I can't think of any scene where they moved at all mechanically.

Can you think of any scene at all from the series? /snarky

For the most part, the Evangelions were very rigid, especially if you compare them to super robot shows. Seeing Unit-02's fight with the MPE's was very impressive because of how fluidly Asuka was able to get her Eva to move. Compare any Eva scene from NGE with one from 2.22, and you'll see a real difference.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Seeing Unit-02's fight with the MPE's was very impressive because of how fluidly Asuka was able to get her Eva to move.

I think that you're looking at things backwards, Eva-02 was fluid because they spent money and time with that sequence, not because they wanted it to look more fluid to show us "how good Asuka became all of a sudden" (and I suppose that everyone know that they had to sacrifice some details of Eva-02 design to reach that animation quality).
NGE was produced with a low budget and a lot of outsourced animation, opting for a "mechanic" animation could have been a forced choice for the staff, while 3D CG allowed them to have fluid movements in NME (anway I prefer Evangelions in their NME version, Sahaquiel's battle is simply amazing).

[Nonoriri]

I think that you're looking at things backwards, Eva-02 was fluid because they spent money and time with that sequence, not because they wanted it to look more fluid to show us "how good Asuka became all of a sudden" (and I suppose that everyone know that they had to sacrifice some details of Eva-02 design to reach that animation quality).
NGE was produced with a low budget and a lot of outsourced animation, opting for a "mechanic" animation could have been a forced choice for the staff, while 3D CG allowed them to have fluid movements in NME (anway I prefer Evangelions in their NME version, Sahaquiel's battle is simply amazing).

No. It looks "fluid" because that is how Mitsuo Iso animated it to look, this bizarre abstraction between talent, time and money is fruitless. Yes he had more time and they had more money, but money and time do not magically grant people talent, it also doesn't serve as a reason either, it does not create good animation it augments it, talented animators are the ones doing the work. Would you really credit time and money over people? Saying that the intention of the animation is fueled purely by having more time and money is really absurd. The mechanical animation in Eva TV is actually, very, very good. (It's pretty much everything else visually that suffers in the series) The Eva Units in Rebuild are mostly traditionally animated. The major exceptions being: All of Unit 05 and A mix of CG and traditional animation during the Sahaquiel fight (with all the best cuts i.e Unit 01 hands being pierced, Asuka destroying the core and the torrent of blood that occurs afterward not being CG) in fact all the best mechanical animation in 2.0 (all the stuff toward the end of the film) is all traditionally animated.

@symbv: I actually had Hironori Tanaka (another animator) on the mind before I posted in this thread and...sort of screwed up the name! Whoops :P

[Hyper Shinchan]

No. It looks "fluid" because that is how Mitsuo Iso animated it to look

But in that way he "changed" the animation of Evas compared to NGE (just like NME).

Yes he had more time and they had more money, but money and time do not magically grant people talent, it also doesn't serve as a reason either, that does not create good animation, talented animators do.

I'm having a deja-vu of an old discussion... surely money and time don't make anything by themselves but you can't do much without it, isn't it obvious? My point was that NGE and EoE had different animation style, rigid and "robotic" the first, fluid and "natural" the later; the same thing is happening with NME, Evas move like people rather than "giant robots".

Saying that the intention of the animation is fueled purely by having more time and money is really absurd.

Yeah, sure, just look at the "animation" of EoTV...

The mechanical animation in Eva TV is actually, very, very good.

You could say that it's good (not *that* good imo, especially overall, like everything else in NGE in the regards of animation) but it was very rigid, mechanical, just look at the Eva-01 kicking Zeruel, it takes a loooot of time just to complete that single movement.

The Eva Units in Rebuild mostly traditionally animated.

From the booklet of 2.22 (I'm translating from Italian to English so there could be some mistakes, I dunno if it was included in the American booklet, the Italian one is a line per line translation of the Japanese one, I've scans of the later):
The Sequences of Evas drawn in CG
The CG scenes in Jo involving Evas were limited to the interior of the monitors (note: I suppose that they wanted to say entry-plug but I'm translating it directly) and the static sequences. The objective in Ha was raising the bar and making CG scenes even for the action sequences.
After that it mentions that the entire running sequence of the Evas during Sahaquiel battle is cel-shaded animation. And I was ecstatic for the sense of realism that was transmitted by those scenes, I've started being enthusiast of 2.22 after watching that scene.
Anyway even the sapient combination of CG and hand drawn animation is one of the good aspects of NME, I can understand some critiques to the direction (it's less than perfect for some aspects) but visually I really don't have anything to say, it's simply outstanding.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Can you think of any scene at all from the series? /snarky

Episode 12 when the three Evas were running to stop the falling Angel. The animation was so detailed, each Eva had a different running style depending on its pilot. Asuka's Unit 02 ran in a different way than Shinji's Unit 01, and Rei's Unit 00 run cycle had some feminine touches to it specific to Ayanami. Very human-like movements.

In NME everyone ran like sprinters. They were still human-looking, but didn't have any of the characteristics specific to the pilots that NGE had. It almost makes more sense that they would run more like sprinters, though, what with the pilots being trained for battle and all.

[Sachi]

I'm having a deja-vu of an old discussion... surely money and time don't make anything by themselves but you can't do much without it, isn't it obvious? My point was that NGE and EoE had different animation style, rigid and "robotic" the first, fluid and "natural" the later; the same thing is happening with NME, Evas move like people rather than "giant robots".

Or they're simply following the trend of all mecha shows of the last decade. If you think of TTGL, Diebuster, and all other "super robot" shows, NME seems to really be following that fluid style of robot animation, as opposed to NGE's residence somewhere between "traditional robot" and "super robot." In fact, there's an ongoing debate of whether or not NGE can be considered a "super robot" show. However, one look at any Eva scene from 2.22 and it becomes quite clear that the argument becomes irrelevant; NME is a super robot show (Asuka's intro, anyone?).

I highly doubt the sudden emphasis in the super robot style is simply a result of a higher budget; yeah, a budget really helps with that style, but it's not the primary incentive to go with the style. Occam's Razor suggests they're simply following trends of modern mecha anime, and "wowing" their viewers with amazing, flashy animation.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Or they're simply following the trend of all mecha shows of the last decade. If you think of TTGL, Diebuster, and all other "super robot" shows, NME seems to really be following that fluid style of robot animation, as opposed to NGE's residence somewhere between "traditional robot" and "super robot."

I'm not sure about the terminology here: what do you mean with "traditional robot" ("real robot"?) and "super robot"? There were old "super robot" shows with really rigid movements, possibly because of a really low budget (Godmars, anyone?).

In fact, there's an ongoing debate of whether or not NGE can be considered a "super robot" show. However, one look at any Eva scene from 2.22 and it becomes quite clear that the argument becomes irrelevant; NME is a super robot show (Asuka's intro, anyone?).

You're referring to the "Inazuma Kick", right? Well, a very similar move was used in the highly spectacular battle against Israfel in NGE, I can't help thinking that they simply couldn't afford "spectacular scenes" for every battle with their budget.

I highly doubt the sudden emphasis in the super robot style is simply a result of a higher budget; yeah, a budget really helps with that style, but it's not the primary incentive to go with the style. Occam's Razor suggests they're simply following trends of modern mecha anime, and "wowing" their viewers with amazing, flashy animation.

I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor but I've been told some time ago that it's not really usable in the case of fictional works (was it Yojimbo? I'm not sure), anyway in the show Evas are supposed to be "giant humanoid" moved directly by the pilot's mind rather than "robots" inexplicably moved by a single cloche, I think that a fluid and human-like animation can help giving this impression, the movements of Evas in NGE were simply too sluggish and at times mechanical.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

See, I've always thought the kaiju elements of the show were stronger than anything considered to be "robot" or "super robot". Especially considering there's almost nothing robotic in the build-up of the Evangelions.

Though to be fair, I've haven't seen any mecha/robot animes other than Gunbuster. So I can't comment on what is or isn't "mecha". But I did grow up on Japanese monster movies, and both of the Evangelion sagas always struck me as being kaiju shows/films.