Ramiel
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Ramiel
Here we go again. :roll:
Some thoughts and theories on Ramiel:
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Shape:
Ramiel’s shape is an Octahedron.
Type: Platonic Solid
Number of Faces: 8
Number of Vertices: 6
Number of Edges: 12
If you ‘unfold’ an octahedron it can fit comfortably within parts of the Seporith Tree of Life.
{Here’s a link to a picture of an unfolded octahedron. See it?}
{If you mess around with the Tree of Life some more you get this.}
If you view Ramiel from a 45 degree angle it has an exact outline of a hexagon. The same shape as an AT field.
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Particle Weapon:
The Inner Torus Reactor interested me, so I poked about.
The source of the angels particle weapon doesn’t appear to be from its S^2 engine (unless this engine is a Torus reactor for the other angels.) Torus reactors have already been made, they are also called Tokamak reactors.
{A link to an example of one of these reactors, which is also called JET.}
So basically to charge up its weapon, it rotates its magnetic/A.T field and compresses the space its reactor and somehow generates and then projects some plasma energy. Simple. The current reactors we have cant work continuously, because of the massive stress, so this angel is one tough fuck to cope with a continuous energy discharge like that. Or something like that :)
You could use the above paragraph to explain how Sachiel self-destructed, simply overburden this reactor and you’ll end up with a nasty nuclear explosion. Probably.
Although I could be completely wrong with all of this, I really simplified most of the above ; )
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My Questions:
It is the first angel we see in the series that has no core visible. Why?
After it is destroyed we see NERV ‘dismantling’ the angel. The inside of it looks to have a dense framework or skeleton. How come we can see straight through it in the earlier episode?
The drill it uses to break through the Geo-Front is interesting, after the ‘lasers’ at the tip have stopped we can clearly see a mechanical structure underneath. With what looks like a metallic surface and screws… Any thoughts on whether or not this angel is some sort of machine?
Ramiel is one of the more interesting angels. Maybe if we figure out some stuff here it'll be germane to other aspects of Evangelion. 8)
Some thoughts and theories on Ramiel:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shape:
Ramiel’s shape is an Octahedron.
Type: Platonic Solid
Number of Faces: 8
Number of Vertices: 6
Number of Edges: 12
If you ‘unfold’ an octahedron it can fit comfortably within parts of the Seporith Tree of Life.
{Here’s a link to a picture of an unfolded octahedron. See it?}
{If you mess around with the Tree of Life some more you get this.}
If you view Ramiel from a 45 degree angle it has an exact outline of a hexagon. The same shape as an AT field.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Particle Weapon:
The Inner Torus Reactor interested me, so I poked about.
The source of the angels particle weapon doesn’t appear to be from its S^2 engine (unless this engine is a Torus reactor for the other angels.) Torus reactors have already been made, they are also called Tokamak reactors.
{A link to an example of one of these reactors, which is also called JET.}
So basically to charge up its weapon, it rotates its magnetic/A.T field and compresses the space its reactor and somehow generates and then projects some plasma energy. Simple. The current reactors we have cant work continuously, because of the massive stress, so this angel is one tough fuck to cope with a continuous energy discharge like that. Or something like that :)
You could use the above paragraph to explain how Sachiel self-destructed, simply overburden this reactor and you’ll end up with a nasty nuclear explosion. Probably.
Although I could be completely wrong with all of this, I really simplified most of the above ; )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Questions:
It is the first angel we see in the series that has no core visible. Why?
After it is destroyed we see NERV ‘dismantling’ the angel. The inside of it looks to have a dense framework or skeleton. How come we can see straight through it in the earlier episode?
The drill it uses to break through the Geo-Front is interesting, after the ‘lasers’ at the tip have stopped we can clearly see a mechanical structure underneath. With what looks like a metallic surface and screws… Any thoughts on whether or not this angel is some sort of machine?
Ramiel is one of the more interesting angels. Maybe if we figure out some stuff here it'll be germane to other aspects of Evangelion. 8)
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Zugzwang wrote:The drill it uses to break through the Geo-Front is interesting, after the ‘lasers’ at the tip have stopped we can clearly see a mechanical structure underneath.
I always thought the drill bit was part of its A.T. Field (used differently), because when the positron beam shoots through Ramiel, the tip of the drill just disappears.
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It is the first angel we see in the series that has no core visible. Why?
IIRC, someone (Hyugga, I think) has a line stating that the core is in the exact center of the Angel.
Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
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The only mention of the core in the LTP is Ritsuko's mission instructions to Shinji:
[code:1]Ritsuko:This arrangement is due to the fact that Shinji's synchronization
ratio is higher and we need more precise operation this time.
Since the positron beam is influenced by the magnetic field,
gravity field and the revolution of the Earth, it will not fire in
a straight line. Don't forget to adjust for that error--you must
hit the core precisely.[/code:1]
[code:1]Ritsuko:This arrangement is due to the fact that Shinji's synchronization
ratio is higher and we need more precise operation this time.
Since the positron beam is influenced by the magnetic field,
gravity field and the revolution of the Earth, it will not fire in
a straight line. Don't forget to adjust for that error--you must
hit the core precisely.[/code:1]
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It is the first angel we see in the series that has no core visible. Why?
Because then there'd be an ugly red lump, and he'd no longer be an octahedron.
After it is destroyed we see NERV ‘dismantling’ the angel. The inside of it looks to have a dense framework or skeleton. How come we can see straight through it in the earlier episode?
Earlier episode? You mean when Ram was still kicking? Are you sure you weren't just seeing reflections?
The drill it uses to break through the Geo-Front is interesting, after the ‘lasers’ at the tip have stopped we can clearly see a mechanical structure underneath. With what looks like a metallic surface and screws… Any thoughts on whether or not this angel is some sort of machine?
I'd imagine you don't have to be a machine to be metal. Of course, you also don't have to be made of metal to be a machine. Just look at us.
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Re: Ramiel
Zugzwang wrote:You could use the above paragraph to explain how Sachiel self-destructed, simply overburden this reactor and you’ll end up with a nasty nuclear explosion. Probably.
We don't hear anything about other Angels having torus reactors... It's something about the core, in any case, likely implying an overload of the S^2 or some such thing. In #21', they speak of Adam's S^2 and "explosive system" becoming linked. [blatant theorization]Granted, EVA-00, even without an S^2, is able to self-destruct -- but, just to guess wildly, the core is probably the nexus of energies regardless of whether one has an S^2 or not, and as long as power is being pumped into the core, one can still use it (whatever lay inside it...) to go ka-boom.[/blatant theorization] We do know that the self-destructive system works even after the core has been mortally damaged -- Israfel, Sahaquiel -- so it's probably something these Angels were able to do with their last breaths.
It is the first angel we see in the series that has no core visible. Why?
After it is destroyed we see NERV ‘dismantling’ the angel. The inside of it looks to have a dense framework or skeleton. How come we can see straight through it in the earlier episode?
Don't forget that when they are dismantling Ramiel, one can clearly see blood emerging from the square-shaped cuts. Bizarrely, Ramiel is STILL translucent in death (see #09). It's one of those things that will just never made sense, I suppose. (Leliel's manner of death is another source of inquiry.) Perhaps -- and this is just mad theorization I cannot justify in any way -- Ramiel is not really translucent, only APPEARS to be, through some sort of optical trickery. That probably doesn't work, though. :P
The drill it uses to break through the Geo-Front is interesting, after the ‘lasers’ at the tip have stopped we can clearly see a mechanical structure underneath. With what looks like a metallic surface and screws… Any thoughts on whether or not this angel is some sort of machine?
Certainly not. Ramiel's true form, like all Angels, is that of a humanoid, and the floating octahedron is just something she chose to become. While she may appear "machine-like", the underlying entity is very biological, as the blood hopefully demonstrates. Leliel, which also does not seem biological in any way, also betrays her roots upon her own death.
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Re: Ramiel
Reichu wrote:
Certainly not. Ramiel's true form, like all Angels, is that of a humanoid, and the floating octahedron is just something she chose to become.
Hey, whatnow? Where's this come from?
Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
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Re: Ramiel
Space Penis wrote: Hey, whatnow? Where's this come from?
Episodes #05, #10, and #25'.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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Re: Ramiel
Could you be a bit more, uh, specific?Reichu wrote:Space Penis wrote: Hey, whatnow? Where's this come from?
Episodes #05, #10, and #25'.
Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!
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Re: Ramiel
Space Penis wrote:Could you be a bit more, uh, specific?
RITSUKO: This is the Angel's inherent wave pattern.
Misato: What? Let me see.
Misato: Could this be...
RITSUKO: Yes. Although they are composed of a different form of matter,
their actual composition, in terms of the arrangement
and spacing of the pattern, falls within a 99.89% match of human genes.
Misato: 99.89%?
Misato: Shinji, we humans were born from a being called Lilith, who is a source of life just like Adam. We are the 18th Angel. (flashed image: DNA) The other Angels are possibilities of what we might have become - humans that gave up human form. (flashed image: Kaworu - Rei)
Sadly, we had to reject each other - even though we're all human...
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Soluzar wrote:ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:So what about Iruel?
I'm having a "stupid" day - What about Iruel? I'm sure you're making an important point here, but I forget which angel Iruel was right now. All I can remember is some of the ones he was not, leaving me with numerous possible candidates.
The virus angel that tries to take over the MAGI. I think Iruel was the 11th?
Iruel seems to be a nanotech based angel, a lot of people trying to get working nanotech have tried using organic things like human dna as parts in the nanomachines, so there's really no reason why Iruel wouldnt be organic. Although I'm wondering about what sort of core that sort of angel would have? Would each nanite have a mini core?
As for ramial, you can't deny much of that angel seems to be very inorganic even if it did start off organic, especially that drill!
As for ramial, you can't deny much of that angel seems to be very inorganic even if it did start off organic, especially that drill!
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Defectron wrote:As for ramial, you can't deny much of that angel seems to be very inorganic even if it did start off organic, especially that drill!
Nothing we don't have.
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You can either choose to change yourself or change your surroundings. All decisions are variations of those two.
You can either choose to change yourself or change your surroundings. All decisions are variations of those two.
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Defectron wrote:Iruel seems to be a nanotech based angel, a lot of people trying to get working nanotech have tried using organic things like human dna as parts in the nanomachines, so there's really no reason why Iruel wouldnt be organic. Although I'm wondering about what sort of core that sort of angel would have? Would each nanite have a mini core?
Well, when Ireul defends verself against the polysomes, multiple ATF emanations are deployed.
Probably each nanite has a core... A core is a glorified nucleus, after all.
Although I shoudl mention, an entity like Ireul seems to support Shin-seiki's Quantum Magic idea -- that souls in NGE have weird properties that would enable, say, Ireul here to have one soul occuring in all of these nanites at once.
Brings Israfel to mind. I've always wondered: Does Israfel have one soul or two? I've tried to reason which idea is more probable - one soul occuring in two places at once when ve splits, or two souls coexisting in Israfel's singular form. Sadamoto, at least, seems to go for the latter by giving Israfel two cores even in vis singular form. The anime Israfel's core, alternatively, fissions when ve splits and fuses again moments after union of the two bodies. I'm actually with Sadamoto on this one...
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Reichu wrote:Although I shoudl mention, an entity like Ireul seems to support Shin-seiki's Quantum Magic idea -- that souls in NGE have weird properties that would enable, say, Ireul here to have one soul occuring in all of these nanites at once.
Brings Israfel to mind. I've always wondered: Does Israfel have one soul or two? I've tried to reason which idea is more probable - one soul occuring in two places at once when ve splits, or two souls coexisting in Israfel's singular form.
Soul severability? I'm not happy with the theory personally, but perhaps these two angels could be used as evidence.
I'm more inclined to think that these Angels have the one soul and their bodies are simply disjointed. After all, let's say your thumb was severed off, would a piece of your soul be seperated from the whole until it was reattached? Granted however, we can localise the soul in the angels as being in their core, but again is there anything stopping the one core simply being in seperate places at the same time?, with the one soul existing in it, albiet in different places.
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O.M.F. wrote:Soul severability?
I would imagine that its a similar process to cell division. In that the core has the capability to 'divide itself' and produce a exact copy (or a more evolved one?) of itself.
[random thought=Maybe this would explain that crazy Rei shit, did Nerv simply 'divide' her soul and place the first in Eva 00 and then... blah blah]
As for the nanotech angel. It would make more sense if it had one soul, but then this doesnt fit with what i said above :? or maybe it is simply guided by a instinctual motivation programmed into it...
*ponders*
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ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:
Soul severability? I'm not happy with the theory personally, but perhaps these two angels could be used as evidence.
I don't buy it, myself.
I'm more inclined to think that these Angels have the one soul and their bodies are simply disjointed. After all, let's say your thumb was severed off, would a piece of your soul be seperated from the whole until it was reattached? Granted however, we can localise the soul in the angels as being in their core, but again is there anything stopping the one core simply being in seperate places at the same time?, with the one soul existing in it, albiet in different places.
I don't think there is anything barring the possibility that Israfel has two souls. But what you are saying is the gist of Quantum Magic theory -- the ability of a single soul to coexist in multiple places at once. It doesn't need to be contained in a core, though, as Rei demonstrates.
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