Rei's Genetic Lineage... er, Origins (Again)

[Sun Stealer]

How much of Rei is Lillith and how much is Yui? On the scale of things, is she the equivalent of Shinji's half-sister or is she even the same subspecies or species as him?

[ZapX]

Rei has 23 chromosomes from Lilith and 23 from Yui. The zygote was made by adding Yui's sperm to Lilith's ovum. I know all this because Ornette asked Anno.

[Lucretius]

I think we're to assume that she's essentially Shinji's mother. There's no psychological significance in Shinji lusting after some chick who just happens to look like Yui but who turns out to be unrelated to him via deus ex machina. NGE is not a shaky-cam documentary, it's a story with foreshadowing.

[thewayneiac]

Rei's DNA is made of particle wave matter like the Angels, but it is arranged 100% like Yui's, as opposed to the Angels where the arrangement is only 99.89% like humans'.

[sephirotic]

Yui's sperm

Lolwut

---------
Rei is a 100% Clone from Yui With Lillith's extracted (or splited) core.
(That is what i believe from my Core theory.)

Now for the certain: no one knows the details of the process of clonage of Rei and how much, and what, comes from lillith and what from Yui.

What i always wondered tough, is about the first apparison of Rei in 2010 ans a 9 year child. Is it possible that Yui had cloned herself with gendou back in 2001 during the process of cloning Unit 01 from Lillith and already expected to disappear in 2004? I think is a possibility.

[thewayneiac]

Rei 1 is only 4 years old in 2010. Rei 2 must have been artificially aged.

[sephirotic]

Rei 1 is only 4 years old in 2010. Rei 2 must have been artificially aged.

Is there Source that affirm she was 4 years old? By the draw itself i can´t tell and the way she speaks seens to me she is older.

Possible all Reis in the Reiquarium cold have been cloned in the same time.

Artificial age is indeed a convincent explanation, but why 4 years instead of 6 (since Yui "died" in 2004)?

[Sailor Star Dust]

Rei 1 was 5 or so in 2010 according to the Episode 21' script, thus, the clones from Rei 2 onward are artificially aged (Rei 2 would really be 10 in 2015!).

With Rei 2 and her clones, they have Yui's genetic material/DNA (according to Classified Information) but the current "active" clone has Lilith's soul (most or all of Lilith's soul depending on the incarnation of Rei, considering Lilith's soul is split between Rei 2--and Rei 1 who's in Eva-00). The spare clones are just empty vessels/backups in case the current Rei dies.

[Dark doom]

Do we actualy have any proof to say if Rei has those 23 said Chromosomes from lilith?

[sephirotic]

Do we actualy have any proof to say if Rei has those 23 said Chromosomes from lilith?

Do we have proof that Yui has semen? Lol, i think it was just a joke.

[child of Lilith]

I think Rei is probably a equal mix of both Lilith and Yui.

[Dark doom]

I view Rei as have a purely Yui cloned body, the soul part of her is Lilith.
The end, or at least as I see it.

[AuraTwilight]

100% Yui's DNA, but made of Lilith's matter instead of Yui's LCL. Soul is Lilith's.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

My own opinion on this is that Rei's body is essentially a mass of PWM which has been(is being) persuaded by Nerv that it is the Body of Yui Ikari, and which is currently hosting and being animated/powered by the the largest part of the entity known as Lilith. Questions of "DNA" only really arise when examining exactly how exactly the PWM mimic trick is being pulled off. Is it going so far as to emulate Yui's DNA molecules and their corresponding functions; or does Lilith's PWM Wave/Matter DNA still exist through the structure, as it does in the Angel's when they create their fantastic bodies?

Along these lines, my opinion is that when Rei "dies" in episode #23, what has actually occurred is that the PWM has, through trauma, stopped its near perfect simulation of the human body(or else is still perfectly carrying it out), but that Lilith and hence Rei is still very much "alive" and still existing within the "invert" mass. But it is only "invert" from the point of view of human anatomy.

Rei's Yui form is like the pattern on a chameleon or octopus(the mimic octopus is a particularly relevant analogy), with the PWM and Rei herself the true creature. The pattern (body) may disappear, but the fundamental creature is still alive. All Nerv need do is bring the PWM back to the dummy system and coax Lilith out into another waiting vessel.

[sephirotic]

My own opinion on this is that Rei's body is essentially a mass of PWM which has been(is being) persuaded by Nerv that it is the Body of Yui Ikari, and which is currently hosting and being animated/powered by the the largest part of the entity known as Lilith. Questions of "DNA" only really arise when examining exactly how exactly the PWM mimic trick is being pulled off. Is it going so far as to emulate Yui's DNA molecules and their corresponding functions; or does Lilith's PWM Wave/Matter DNA still exist through the structure, as it does in the Angel's when they create their fantastic bodies?

Along these lines, my opinion is that when Rei "dies" in episode #23, what has actually occurred is that the PWM has, through trauma, stopped its near perfect simulation of the human body(or else is still perfectly carrying it out), but that Lilith and hence Rei is still very much "alive" and still existing within the "invert" mass. But it is only "invert" from the point of view of human anatomy.

Rei's Yui form is like the pattern on a chameleon or octopus(the mimic octopus is a particularly relevant analogy), with the PWM and Rei herself the true creature. The pattern (body) may disappear, but the fundamental creature is still alive. All Nerv need do is bring the PWM back to the dummy system and coax Lilith out into another waiting vessel.

This is what i call an overspeculative theory, that is why i prefer the Core theory instead of the PWM.

Even if we accept the PWM theory, it still seens to work pretty much like regular human flesh: blody vessels, organs and fragile meat, we can even seen a silhoute of what appears to be Rei's ribs in episode 23 when ritsuko goes to analyse the destroyed plug.

It is know however that even regular humans, when they flesh body stops working (aka dies), it still houses it's soul. The soul is a free energy and doesn´t depend the body to keep its metabolycs functions to still exist and keep memories (as we can see in EoE, even after the body of Misato being torn in Two, she still is absorved to the egg and her multilated dead body gets tanged.)

I personally prefer to believe that there is no difference to the flesh of angels and humans, and they are both made of LCL altered by the souls. The PWM Ritsuko speaks in episode 05 only refer to the wave pattern of the matter altered by the At Field IMHO.

But let's keep it in topic:

After a Rei bodies dies, theoretically is impossible to sync the body to the dummy core where the Reiquarium is since the nervous system of the body isn´t working (the Syncronization between two souls/cores/organic beings occur thanks to the A10 Nerv), so extracting the soul without an empty core and a Anti-At-Field to free the soul from the dead body would be impossible. That is why i believe Rei and Kaworu have Cores. The body may have died, but they still have a stronge housing core inside them where the soul is protected and can be easily transfered and reimplanted on a new body.

This is what happens to Ayanami twice in the series. Her clonned dummy bodies are just 100% regular Yui copy. Why it sembles an albino? Some minor genetic alteration in the process, maybe to make the implant of the cores easier.

[Monk Ed]

I personally prefer to believe that there is no difference to the flesh of angels and humans, and they are both made of LCL altered by the souls. The PWM Ritsuko speaks in episode 05 only refer to the wave pattern of the matter altered by the At Field IMHO.

This part sounds a lot like my own ATF theory from a year or two ago. I'm still rather fond of it, though I haven't reanalyzed it in light of recent changes to my Eva knowledge. (Kaworu's Good End in NGE2 revealed that all souls are apparently interchangeable and come from the same source, everyone is probably a reincarnated FAR, etc, all implying that while ATFs are projected by the soul their power is not determined by the soul.)

This is not the place for any of that, though.

After a Rei bodies dies, theoretically is impossible to sync the body to the dummy core where the Reiquarium is since the nervous system of the body isn´t working (the Syncronization between two souls/cores/organic beings occur thanks to the A10 Nerv), so extracting the soul without an empty core and a Anti-At-Field to free the soul from the dead body would be impossible. That is why i believe Rei and Kaworu have Cores.

This does bring up something I hadn't considered before: Rei is a case of a forced ensoulment. She and Kaworu are probably the only cases. (Well, and the Evas, but I don't want to get into a core theory debate here.) And it seems to definitely be a perversion of the normal process: even in the cases of both Yui and Shinji, their consent was needed to rematerialize them.

I'm not sure I've seen any discussion at length as to the implications of this, regarding the nature of souls.

Regarding the topic: many things other than genetics help determine how one's body ultimately looks and behaves. Rei's genes are 100% Yui, but other factors are obviously in play to give her her unique hair/eye/skin color (among other oddities). There's still a lot about epigenetics that we don't know.

[carla]

i can't really give a reasonable answer to this question, because the whole PWM -> ATF thing has always confused the heck out of me. i just wanted to say, though, that while the idea that Rei is 100% PWM, simply aligned to yui's DNA sequence makes sense in my brain (and it seems like it agrees with most of the crazy stuff Rei can do in the series), i don't really know if i can get on board with it.

i just feel it takes something away from the main themes, i don't know. probably the fact that if Rei is 100% PWM, then she's really not related to Shinji at all. it's like, say, a man travels somewhere and meets someone who looks almost exactly like him; this would mean their genetic sequence, at least the genes that dominate their physical appearance, is probably similar. but they don't share any common ancestry, so they're definitely not related (unless the man in question is the main character in a soap opera, of course ). there's a difference between aligning PWM in the same sequence, and the chromatids actually splitting during mitosis so the genetic information gets passed on.

if Rei isn't really related to Shinji, then the incestuous undertones in their relationship are more akin to those in Misato & Kaji's relationship-- "sure, she looks like your mother, talks like your mother, acts like your mother... but you only feel it's incestuous because your brain insists it is. fact is, she's not your mother. she's not even your aunt. it's that easy, so get over it." i feel the impact of Rei being cloned from yui loses something if she wasn't actually cloned from yui, so i would really prefer for Rei to actually have at least some of yui's DNA in her.

but maybe that's just me.

and like SSD said, CI states Rei was "copied from yui's flesh." screams mitosis to me... but who knows.

[sephirotic]

i can't really give a reasonable answer to this question, because the whole PWM -> ATF thing has always confused the heck out of me. i just wanted to say, though, that while the idea that Rei is 100% PWM, simply aligned to yui's DNA sequence makes sense in my brain (and it seems like it agrees with most of the crazy stuff Rei can do in the series), i don't really know if i can get on board with it.

(...)

and like SSD said, CI states Rei was "copied from yui's flesh." screams mitosis to me... but who knows.

I invite you to read and debate the alternate to PWM theory, the core theory here. o/ It explains in a way much more plausible how the angels are made, cloned, how their souls are housed, how Rei is cloned, how her soul is transfered and the origin off all their powers. =3

[AuraTwilight]

if Rei isn't really related to Shinji, then the incestuous undertones in their relationship are more akin to those in Misato & Kaji's relationship-- "sure, she looks like your mother, talks like your mother, acts like your mother... but you only feel it's incestuous because your brain insists it is. fact is, she's not your mother. she's not even your aunt. it's that easy, so get over it." i feel the impact of Rei being cloned from yui loses something if she wasn't actually cloned from yui, so i would really prefer for Rei to actually have at least some of yui's DNA in her.

What Rei is made of doesn't matter if the genetics are exactly the same. She's still a clone. And even then, even without the Yui thing, Rei is still incestual/Motherly due to the Lilith thing.

I invite you to read and debate the alternate to PWM theory, the core theory here. o/ It explains in a way much more plausible how the angels are made, cloned, how their souls are housed, how Rei is cloned, how her soul is transfered and the origin off all their powers. =3

It's also only supported by like two people, the creator included. :3

[Allemann]

In terms of personal identity, Rei is 100% Lilith. She is Lilith with amnesia.