The relationship between Shinji and Asuka and generally

[TheSophist]

just thought I give you my interpretation of Kimochi warui (How disgusting) in end of evangleion.

first lets establish the context: this was immediately after Asuka and Shinji had returned from the mind meld machine and now exist as seperate individuals. This excludes this being still in the sea of soup becuase this was Shinji accepting himself as being separate and willing to experience pain. so Asuka must be Asuka, and not an amalgamation of Misato and Rei as well or some other mumbo jumbo.

It is simply Shinji and Asuka coming out of that traumatic experience and waking up

now lets think about what going through their heads. this was immediately after the instrumentality, so Shinji and Asuka's last encounter was in the scene where Shinji last tries to strangle Asuka. he tried to strangle her becuase she rejected his wish for comfort and uncondtional support (the kind incidentally kwarou was offering) he wanted her, but was flat out rejected and left with nothing but frustration and anger from his position.he only wanted her to help him get rid of his postion, not out of love or affection for her.

His postion was as stated by him: "don't leave me alone, dont' abandon me, don't kill me!" these are his fears anxieties etc that plague him and is wanting to be rid of. these all represent his pathological mental state, a lot coming from his relationship with his dad, where he was abandoned, left alone and now risking his life piloting the eva.
how is this a starting point for a relationship with Asuka? as stated by her he wanted anyone, but was afraid of his dad, Misato, Rei and only had her to turn to. And I think she rejected him on this basis, he was being selfish.

so he tried to kill her out of fury.

but straight after this he undergoes some psychoanalysis and self reflection on his problems and fears with Rei and so forth and came to the conclusion he wants to face his fears and live in a world of pain

and when he wakes up after this traumatic experience he is faced with the person he had just tried to kill and still has some anger and resentment towards her. he trembles as he places his hands around her neck still unsure whether to do it and just as he was about to really apply pressure and strangle her. Asuka strokes his cheek in a affectionate manner (lets say).And this I must point out was the first actual time where she has actually indicated to Shinji some afection towards him, or a sign that she cares for him. Its not love but its a sign that Shinji begins to break down and cry like a baby. he realizes that she actually likes him and is upset about trying to kill her.

When she says "how disgusting" she says this just as she looks at Shinji crying like a baby and being generally pathetic. The fact that she says this whilst looking at him I take that the phrase “how disgusting” is about him.
She does not pity him, she is expressing her disgust in Shinji. He has not shown her any affection, which is what she really wanted all along. Shinji and Asuka are alike in many ways about having relationship problems. She is expressing her dissatisfaction that Shinji is not giving her any affection. This has been Shinji's problem all along, not showing actual expressions of love towards Asuka and he being caught up in himself.

 "you've never even loved yourself" this is what Asuka said shows that Shinji is incapable of showing affection towards others because he is not able to give it to himself. if you cannot like your self how can you give yourself to others? Another point along this line is when she says "if I cant have you all to myself I don't want anything from you" which is telling Shinji to give himself to her. and not look at other girls like Rei. which is I suppose her way of saying I want you to love me.

what do ya think?

[Mr. Tines]

A couple of points to consider:

so he tried to kill her out of fury.

The coffee-pot scene is a replay of a scene added in the DC episode 24, where Shinji's tactless words precipitate Asuka's journey that ends in the bathtub in the ruins, just like the kiss scene from episode 15 had just been replayed with a kick instead.

faced with the person he had just tried to kill

There are plausible arguments that Shinji had been alone on the beach for a reasonable length of time before Asuka reappeared.

[TheSophist]

A couple of points to consider:

The coffee-pot scene is a replay of a scene added in the DC episode 24, where Shinji's tactless words precipitate Asuka's journey that ends in the bathtub in the ruins, just like the kiss scene from episode 15 had just been replayed with a kick instead.

There are plausible arguments that Shinji had been alone on the beach for a reasonable length of time before Asuka reappeared.

I would say its a more likely hypothesis that there was not time delay. theres no real explanation for Rei being there, its just reminiscent of episode 1 flash of Rei. Misato's cross... probably an indication that she isn't there. as for how it got there, Shinji coul have got up walked other and nailed it there (there just a bunch of poles in the gorund)and walked back and sat down. and then truned towards Asuka.

I don;t really buy there being a great length of time simply becuase he would have acted the way he did a lot earlier not 3 weeks later

[Legendary]

The rust on Misato's cross suggests that some time passed, actually. Both strangulation scenes are really hard to fathom.

[TheSophist]

The rust on Misato's cross suggests that some time passed, actually. Both strangulation scenes are really hard to fathom.

a more likely explanation is that it could be water running of the rusty nail rather than due to an extended time.

or it could be that it was already there before Asuka and Shinji came
, through whatever force, Rei?
in anycase, we never see what physically happens from them two being in instrumentality and being two human beings lying on a beach.

in any case I don't think it affects too much what I was saying about why Shinji was strangling Asuka

[Mr. Tines]

a more likely explanation is that it could be water running of the rusty nail rather than due to an extended time.

Yes, it does look like it's supposed to be runoff from the nail -- but as a reality check I hung a piece of white plastic on a rusty nail in the garden last autumn -- it still looks pristine.

[TheSophist]

Yes, it does look like it's supposed to be runoff from the nail -- but as a reality check I hung a piece of white plastic on a rusty nail in the garden last autumn -- it still looks pristine.

which I suppose shows how you can read to much into things that are made up in people heads eh?

[Azathoth]

Yes, it does look like it's supposed to be runoff from the nail -- but as a reality check I hung a piece of white plastic on a rusty nail in the garden last autumn -- it still looks pristine.

I doubt Anno was as dedicated to fact-checking his rust. It's clearly supposed to originate from the nail, but whether that's an indication that the nail was already rusty or that it's begun to rust just since Shinji nailed the cross up is not remotely clear.

I feel like the "how long after everything else does 1MF take place" debate is about the most pathetic unresolved argument about NGE, and the rusty nail is the most pathetic point of that argument.

[Reh]

I believe Shenji and Asuka are indeed in love. It is stated during Shenji's experience in instrumentality that anyone with a strong enough heart may return to their human self's'. Asuka's love for shenji and her will to live must have brought her back.

1. On multiple occasions Asuka attempts to show desire and affection for Shenji

a)After the "Wall of Jericho" sequence from Episode 09, in which Shinji didn’t take to her reverse psychology in an attempt to get Shenji to lie with her. (she also gives him a clear look at her breasts)
b) When they first kiss, she tell Shenji that it was out of boredom and storms to the bathroom pretending to wash her mouth out over how disgusted she is with him. (she also compliments him on his cello skills, something very rare for such Asuka.)
c) When the entire class leaves to go on a field trip the 3 Eva pilots are left behind. In a scene at the pool side Asuka attempts to show off her intelligence and her physique.

2. Shenji shows desire towards Asuka

a) he saves her from falling into the lava
b) when she is being picked apart by the other EVA's he goes berserk
c) his desire to kiss her when she lies next to him after sleep walking
d) he masturbates to her naked body
e) he states he wants to be with Asuka forever.
Of course all of Asuka's attemps go right over Shenjis head.

The fact that Shenji decided to create a world with others along with all it's pain and pleasures shows that he isn't running away anymore. But in this new beginning (Neon Genesis) he is the only present at the time until some time has passed and that at some point Asuka reemerges from instrumentality into her human form to be with Shenji in the new beginning despite the pains it will have. Now, In the final lines Asuka says "how disgusting", I agree with what OP said entirely.
"you've never even loved yourself" this is what Asuka said shows that Shinji is incapable of showing affection towards others because he is not able to give it to himself. if you cannot like your self how can you give yourself to others? Another point along this line is when she says "if I cant have you all to myself I don't want anything from you" which is telling Shinji to give himself to her. and not look at other girls like Rei. which is I suppose her way of saying I want you to love me.
She is disgusted with how much time it took him to show love for her and also, look at the situation they are in, almost the end of humanity itself; not a very ideal situation to express someone you love them. So, of course Asuka being Asuka belittles Shenji, like usual.

[fearlubu]

Asuka's love for shenji and her will to live must have brought her back.


a) he saves her from falling into the lava
b) when she is being picked apart by the other EVA's he goes berserk
c) his desire to kiss her when she lies next to him after sleep walking
d) he masturbates to her naked body
e) he states he wants to be with Asuka forever.

ok so

1. i dont think theyre in love, although they may "like" each other
2. Asuka could have been brought back only by her will to live....nothing to do with Shinji imo
@ a) i think he would of saved anyone (generally speaking...maybe even his father actually -_-)
@ c) she's hot, maybe he just wants a kiss.....it has nothing to do with love...he's just horny
@ d) once again, horny
@ e) i probably missed it...but when did he say this?

[Mr. Tines]

@ e) i probably missed it...but when did he say this?

(Shinji and Asuka in Misato's apartment - Asuka sitting dejectedly at table)

Shinji:
I want to help you in some way... and to be with you forever.

@TheSophist
1a) She's trying to take the measure of this other pilot who surely can't be that different from a male version of herself,...
b) Suddenly he had shown some other facet of himself, a non threatening skill -- but he still manages to be useless
c) If anyone is getting attention while she's around, it'd better not be anybody else

2a) like fearlubu said
b) My version of EoE must have omitted his berserking
c) He does it when there's effectively nobody home in that appealing body
d) ditto
e) in what is probably the limpest, lame, lukewarm confession recorded in the history of drama.

[SaltyJoe]

e) he states he wants to be with Asuka forever.

Personally, i always thought that Shinji was lying his ass off in desperation. Asuka even calls him out on it.

[TheSophist]

Personally, i always thought that Shinji was lying his ass off in desperation. Asuka even calls him out on it.

I totally agree, I think the most we can say about their relationhip is that they like each other on some level and maybe physically. But it never developed into love.

you can learn a lot from the interactions between the characters in end of evangelion.

[NemZ]

Asuka wants Shinji to want her, but she isn't necessarily actually interested in him so much as in developing her technique with a mostly harmless test subject. She clearly states that she'd rather die than actually end up with him.

Shinji's nice guy moments are things he would have done for anyone, not just her. He apparently finds her physically attractive but is uninterested in her while conscious, and seems much more hung on Kaworu than her.

An epic romance this is not.

[ran1]

The characters in Evangelion really don't have the capacity to truly "love" each other in the first place. They're to busy lost in their own worlds to even attempt some kind of relationship with someone else.

It might be a possibility that EoE ending might actually be a very poignant statement that the conditions that surround Asuka and Shinji following their roller coaster ride through instrumentality might actually be the only condition in which love between the two is remotely feasible.

Hence all the fanfiction. But if you were to say that the two love each other throughout the series, I would say no. The two definitely realize that they have a need for each other prior to P3II, however. Asuka learns this as early as 22, and baka Shinji comes to this point at the outset of 25'.

[Lucretius]

They're more or less a failed Kaji and Misato, I think; Asuka's the unattainable possibility of a normal, non-incestuous relationship.

[TheSophist]

Asuka wants Shinji to want her, but she isn't necessarily actually interested in him so much as in developing her technique with a mostly harmless test subject. She clearly states that she'd rather die than actually end up with him.

Shinji's nice guy moments are things he would have done for anyone, not just her. He apparently finds her physically attractive but is uninterested in her while conscious, and seems much more hung on Kaworu than her.

An epic romance this is not.

so your saying she has no feelings for him what so ever, are you sure? there were some positive instances in the series, although not many such as when Shinji saved Asuka.

its not a romance certainly. buts its hard to say theres nothing there

[NemZ]

so your saying she has no feelings for him what so ever, are you sure?

She's somewhat conflicted. Shinji the pilot she thinks is an okay guy as a rival/teammate... until he clearly surpasses her, at which point he becomes a cocky asshole and scourge of her existence. Shinji the person, however, she consistently treats as little more than an unwanted idiot pest fit only for use as manual labor, stress ball, and test subject.

Occasionally he proves less useless than normal, and at such times she tends to give him more benefit of the doubt... until he inevitably proves himself to be just as hopeless as she suspected.

[konfunoodle]

I'm just pulling this out of my butt, buuut the Titles in EoE kinda support Shinji and Asuka's longing for one another(or just for someone)

Love is Destructive-The afterMath of Shinji seeing Asuka's death

My Purest Heart for You- 3I instrumantality of him coming to understanding of not running away

I Need You- them together on the beach

It's one form of love to say, "I want you" but "I need you" is something else. Also, Shinji could have stayed with his mother in Eva, but EoE ends with Shinji with his significant other.

[Mr. Tines]

I'm just pulling this out of my butt, buuut the Titles in EoE

You can make an equally strong (if not indeed stronger) case for it being Gendo/Yui that's being referred to.