You think there's never going to be Asuka/Shinji ?

[Sailor Star Dust]

To see my point, all I can tell you is rewatch 21' thru EoE. If you haven't watched Platinum for the series or a Renewal fansub for EoE, get on that when you can. It's worth it to help understand the show better thanks to the better translations/audio/visuals.

It sounds to me like Shinji simply turned to Asuka because she was the only option left other than being alone, which terrifies him - which is exactly what angered her in the first place, IIRC.

She was the only option yes, but clearly it worked out that way for a reason instead of Shinji turning to Rei, or Misato. Asuka was upset that Shinji ignored her wants/desires and kept selfishly thinking about himself.

Best example: the pre-3I kitchen scene: Shinji admits his feelings for her/wanting to be with her, Asuka says she wants him to do nothing because he keeps hurting her, Shinji completely ignores what Asuka says and goes back to begging for help; Asuka looses it and partly self-projects with Shinji being so afraid and not loving himself.


Also:

Misato (RADIO - OFF):
Deploy your AT Field. Rescue Rei immediately.

Shinji:
Okay!

Rei:
Ikari?

Misato:
Shinji, attack it with the Prog Knife!

Rei VOICE:
It hurts.
It hurts, Ikari.

Rei:
This is my heart wanting to become one with Ikari?
No.

IBUKI:
The AT Field has been reversed! It will be eroded away at once!

RITSUKO:
Does she intend to contain the Angel?!

IBUKI:
The Field has reached its limit!
The core will not be able to maintain it at this rate!

Misato:
Rei, abandon the Eva and get out of there!

Rei:
No.
If I go, the AT Field will disappear. So, I can't.

Interestingly, she says "dame" (No) after realizing that's not what she wants, and then again as "dakara, dame" (So I can't) before blowing up Eva-00.

Her saying "no" seems to also refer to what Rei3 later does: Joining everybody in Instrumentality, but deciding against it (really giving Shinji a choice with what he wants, I'm just simplifying here) in the end because of Shinji's wishes.

Yes the lines do seem to be an indication of what's happening in 23' scene, but MANY of the DC episodes have cuts/images that either look exactly like things we see in EoE or subtle references to what happens (another thing, the majority of people I've spoken with feel Rei's line is a reference to Instrumentality then anything sexual/romantic with Shinji). Asuka's expression during the 22' mindrape scene at the sink nearly matches her hurt expression before she starts to kick Shinji in EoE, for example. (There are other examples, but this is one off the top of my head.)

[LiLi]

Not that Iike the idea, but does anyone else see the possability that Asuka could take Kaworu's place in the assault on terminal dogma?

I actually thought of something like that too...

To see my point, all I can tell you is rewatch 21' thru EoE. If you haven't watched Platinum for the series or a Renewal fansub for EoE, get on that when you can. It's worth it to help understand the show better thanks to the better translations/audio/visuals.

Well, I have the Japanese 2007 release, with the 21'-24' episodes and the Renewal version of the movie and I have (rere?)watched them recently - I have been feeling like rewatching the episodes anyway, but I was just asking what you meant to say with your comment. If you don't feel like explaining it in more detail, then it's fine.

She was the only option yes, but clearly it worked out that way for a reason instead of Shinji turning to Rei, or Misato.

I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic here - Rei and Misato were not an option in the first place simply because they terrified him?

Also, I meant to say it sounded to me as though that was what you were suggesting in your previous post - Shinji turning to Asuka for lack of other options, that is.

Nevermind, I guess I'll think about it some more... but I guess my interpretation of the kitchen scene diverges from yours in some aspects...

As for the sequence of lines from the episode:

To clarify: you're quoting me the English translation and interpretation thereof - I was comparing it with the original Japanese dialogue. AFAIK 'dame' doesn't simply mean "no" - as in the answer to the question Rei is asking herself: it means, to put it simply, that's something not good, something that should not be allowed to happen - even if she wished for it.

I just checked the Japanese dialogue from the script in the DVD:

Kore ha watashi no kokoro? Ikari-kun to issho ni naritai?

Dame

I interpreted this as Rei realizing the Angel attacking Ikari-kun is due to her heart wanting to join with him (since the angel had been infecting her and reading her emotions) . Then she says, "Dame" as in, I can't allow it (she can't allow the angel to hurt Eva 01/Shinji due to her own desires).

Had Rei let the AT Field dissolve, the Angel would have forcibly "assimilated" Eva 01/Shinji, IIRC... => self destruction.

How does the EoE-related interpretation take into account the fact this line is also in the "on air" version of ep. 23? I don't think you should necessarily retro-interpret ep. 23 based on EoE... since the "on air" continuity originally ended with eps. 25 and 26... and IIRC, based on episode 25, it would seem Rei had never questioned her role in Instrumentality up to that point, that is, up to ep. 25 itself.

I don't think Rei II was ready to oppose Gendo's plans for Instrumentality, really... that seems EoE!Rei III's territory: she sets Instrumentality in motion, but giving Shinji - rather than Gendo - the power of the choice.

TBH, I'm not sure how much Rei II actually knows - she might just be trying to prevent the Angel from winning (and hurting Shinji in the process) and bestowing upon mankind whatever cataclysm NERV has been (officially and supposedly) trying to avoid.

(another thing, the majority of people I've spoken with feel Rei's line is a reference to Instrumentality then anything sexual/romantic with Shinji).

Uh, that doesn't make it any more right or objective than any other interpretation, now does it?

I think Instrumentality is originated by people's feelings rather than the other way around (Rei is a person too...) - so I think the interpretation is at least open to debate? If you want to discard the romantic angle, then you might want to at least consider Rei's loneliness is making her suffer - and joining with Ikari-kun, she wouldn't be lonely anymore.

The way I see it, GNR might very well wish to be united with Shinji, but realizing this is not necessarily in his best interest, she gives him the choice...

Maybe tl;dr, but I hope my considerations can be of some interest to users here.

:EDIT: Various edits including adding script transcripts.

:EDIT TRUE^2:
As for possible endings, I kind of like the concept of that EoE 'Last' scene that never made it to film with Asuka kicking down her own gravestone - it seems to sum up her character quite awesomely... Of course I don't really expect them to recycle that, since the idea has been leaked ages ago...

[User-iel]

@darthikari -

Not that I like the idea, but does anyone else see the possibility that Asuka could take Kaworu's place

and @LiLi
This could be a most natural development, and there might not even be any need to ask for Bardiel to motivate the plot. "Becoming your abuser" motif. Recipe for disaster (Kaworu as Dark Teacher scenario):
Asuka breaks to catatonic state. (guess how)
someone places her into unit 02 still in the cage (guess who)
dissociative mania conversation with ma
really high sync
-->
PROFIT

If Asuka were to reach her 'revelation' without a convenient target for her mania, I wonder just what ideas she could develop and how much property damage she might cause?

@topic - Necessarily, when we speak of Shinji 'choosing' relationships, I like to keep in mind that he is mostly juvenile, unstable and afraid, so he is only trying to minimize damage/select the lesser of the evils/slave to his hormones. He seems really afraid of the feminine, I think due to fear of repeating mother loss trauma and his weakness at holding his untested borders in the face of acceptance. At 14, and as he is, there is not much relating to others anyway. We are watching a butterfly fastened to a board with pins. Asuka is insensitive enough to him to provide a certain amount of isolation to make it (just barely) tolerable.
Then again, RoE Shinji is new, and seems to have a few fingerbones transplanted over from Chuck Norris, so I might be stuck in the past.

_____________________
Believe in the me who believes in Anno!

[LiLi]

@User-iel

1)T-the raping?

2) Darth"Kaworu?

I'm still not quite sure whether Kyoko will factor in at all or not (I'm getting senile and repetitive, I know... ) THE LACK OF EVIDENCE for Kyoko IS DISTURBING!

This is an intriguing scenario, but honestly originally I was probably thinking of something heavily influenced by Bardiel's, err, intervention/lingering presence/post-contamination effects combined with Asuka's psychological past trauma... I don't think I had elaborated much beyond Asuka taking on Kaworu's role as the "Human Angel" and Shinji having to fight her... maybe in an ironic twist of Fate, Kaworu will end up to be the one defeating her, if Shinji can't make up his mind to skewer her a second time? On the other hand, if Shinji were to 'execute' her without the benefit of having his Father to blame this time around... (Asuka would be stealing Kaworu's role the way he 'stole' her Eva 02 too!)

If Asuka were to reach her 'revelation' without a convenient target for her mania, I wonder just what ideas she could develop and how much property damage she might cause?

A MUCH larger scale version of her kicking down crosses scenario? ;)

Asuka losing it and actually going on a rampage (I'm thinking something more... action-packed, Harpies-battle-style, so to speak, than the Bardiel thing where she probably didn't get to do anything herself...) should be awesome, TBH.

We are watching a butterfly fastened to a board with pins.

I like the imagery... *3* Could I maybe, you know, draw it?

Then again, RoE Shinji is new, and seems to have a few fingerbones transplanted over from Chuck Norris, so I might be stuck in the past.

Maybe it's just me, but RoE!Shinji also seems genuinely... nicer? and more attentive to others in positive ways.

And I believe in Anno too - most of the time! ;)

[SaltyJoe]

Hmm, this thread has been derailed by Nagisa-kun.

Well, i for one still hold the belief that Rebuild's own internal logic regarding relationships and personal happiness is not that different from original's. So an external, invasive force (Kaworu) bringing happiness to someone should be viewed as a bad thing.

Kaworu seems to have already made up his mind about that it shall be him who brings happiness to Shinji, no matter what. He wants to take the chance to steer his own life right out of Shinji's hands, and lock others out of his "Paradise". That is almost divine arrogance.

Well, that is my take anyway.

Too bad this site does not allow polls, we could set up betting rings about how events will unfold in the following Rebuild movies.

IMO, Kaworu will retain the anime versions grace, if he will not be even more elegant, will interact with a multitude of characters, but mostly with Shinji, will provide some insight about how a super-being locked in the body of a human sees the world (something they totally missed with Rei this time around), but his acts will make him seem even more heinous than EMK.

On topic.
Eh, i got nothing new.

[esselfortium]

I've thought a bit more about the "Asuka as the human Angel" scenario, and while this might just be my tendency for optimism, I think there are a couple of probable issues preventing it.

For a scenario in which Shinji becomes close with Asuka and then in the end has to kill her as the final Angel, this would require:

1) The medics examining her level of contamination to be blatantly negligent: if she's still somehow contaminated in a way that could make her any sort of potential threat, wouldn't they most likely put her out of their misery right then and there instead of putting it off until later (and thus making her an extremely dangerous liability in the meantime)?

2) Bardiel somehow then going completely undetected (or purposefully ignored) until a pivotal point in the storyline when it's decided by whoever that Shinji has been acting way too happy this time around, when it's then announced that the last Angel is actually one that was already "killed" before.

I mean, I suppose there's the possibility that she could somehow get infected with yet another Angel, but that seems exceedingly unlikely, both realistically and from the perspective of expecting the writing to make any damn sense at all. :P

But of course I'm just talking from my own perspective of not wanting to have to see that happen

[SaltyJoe]

1) The medics examining her level of contamination to be blatantly negligent

Her physical contamination. Mental contamination is still up in the air. And "Eva is the mirror of your heart". That is, if you are in an Evangelion, what exists only in your mind might become a reality. This is a risk Nerv is seemingly willing to take, what with Ritsuko's comment about her being a "valuable sample".

[trueno_twentyone]

Ritsuko was talking about mental contamination only, am I right?

[Synapsid]

Hmmm...
To date Kaworu has speared shogoki, but I wonder if he damaged one core, and not the other. That is, separate Rei and Shiji with violence.

That seems a possibility... However, doesn't the trailer for Q say that Eva 01 is freezed with Rei and Shinji still trapped inside? Maybe only one of them will be able to come back from Eva 01?

Ah, that sounds like it might be one way to tear Shinji away from his comfort relationship...but I’m sure if that happened Shin-chan would come to hate Kaworu for having forced him away from happiness (even if he might have been attracted to Kaworu at first from quickening naked onto his arms XD). I’m sure that would give us a changed dynamic this time.

I also wanted to see Kaworu interact with Asuka - even though since the premises are different this time around it may not be as much fun as in the NGE timeline... ATE CD Drama script, maybe we can hope... ;)

Uh, I guess if this Kaworu has the Anime trait of collecting wounded strays he might deal with her (if he can stop talking about Shinji, otherwise I’m sure that would only enrage her)...I suppose it might be interesting to see them interact, although I can’t see Kaworu calling her flatchested this time around

unless if we’re going to nickname them Tabby/Puppy from now on?

That's actually kind of cute...

Uh, I guess the name might work out in the end: after all Kaworu was supposed to be a kitty

The worst and squickest way to accomplish this turn of plot would probably have Kaworu take Arael's place and rape her, hiding his role until later.

I don’t think it’s necessary at all, Bardiel already took the concept of violation to its full extent we even had parallels drawn between it and Arael, furthermore Kaworu doesn’t quite seem to be an Evil Manga Kaworu, and if he’s violating anyone the most likely target is Shin-chan (If Shinji hates him for having pulled him away from Ayanami and refuses to listen to him he could try forcing it into his mind in some sort of Arael manner).

Kaworu seems to have already made up his mind about that it shall be him who brings happiness to Shinji, no matter what. He wants to take the chance to steer his own life right out of Shinji's hands, and lock others out of his "Paradise". That is almost divine arrogance.

It does sort of look like that doesn’t it? I suppose that Kaworu forcing him might well become a recurring theme, and I guess if Shinji still refuses he could try showing him in an Arael way.

She was the only option yes, but clearly it worked out that way for a reason instead of Shinji turning to Rei, or Misato. Asuka was upset that Shinji ignored her wants/desires and kept selfishly thinking about himself.
Best example: the pre-3I kitchen scene: Shinji admits his feelings for her/wanting to be with her, Asuka says she wants him to do nothing because he keeps hurting her, Shinji completely ignores what Asuka says and goes back to begging for help…

...I have to agree with those points, there was foreshadowing about Rei and Misato well before they were cut off from him...And to be honest I think the interaction in 2.0 has set it up as so Shin-chan has to face Asuka again, although I don’t think there’s any chance for fluff out of it; 2.0 already touched on that and it’s bound to be far less (distant) and pleasant this time around; I certainly can see an even more twisted version of the Kitchen scene happening if Shinji turns to her for comfort, (especially if Asuka’s earlier infatuation has turned into disillusionment and a sense of betrayal from her friends) ...actually Asuka might be the one doing the strangling this time around.

Ritsuko was talking about mental contamination only, am I right?

I think she said that the signs of physical contamination had subsided but they weren't sure about mental contamination...but I don't think the physical contamination is necessarily gone, after all angels do have a knack for disappearing form view...and it could just be gone because of the suppressors. Perhaps it's something akin to a lisogenic infection...that might explain the patch.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Lili: LOTS of things were in the on-air episodes, but the DC episodes help elaborate just what was going on in the on-air takes of them. The DC episodes were made for that reason (due to lack of budget the first time through) as well as, again, to help explain certain things occurring in EoE.

I thought various visuals/audio in the DC episodes made it obvious several things were EoE allusions, but I guess it's just me...

Anyway, I'm explaining my point as best as I can, but if you STILL don't grasp what I'm saying, it's either a case of you needing to rewatch the series or simply we have different interpretations of what's going on. /Somewhat off-topicness

actually Asuka might be the one doing the strangling this time around.

Heh, that'd be an interesting twist. Yet another nod to the manga, but once again using Anno's spin on it? (similar to how in 1.0, Shinji complained about Misato and the rest of Nerv being selfish, as well as Shinji being shown Lilith. (Though she was IDed as Lilith, not Adam.))

Also, to clarify, I do NOT mean to say Shinji and Asuka's relationship will be reduced to mindless fluff or WAFF if they meet up again. I simply feel that they will STILL go through a lot of bullshit and misunderstandings similar to the series, but when all is said and done, there will be actual hope for their relationship in the final scene of Rebuild instead of the glimmer of hope we get in EoE with the caress.

[LiLi]

Anyway, I'm explaining my point as best as I can, but if you STILL don't grasp what I'm saying, it's either a case of you needing to rewatch the series or simply we have different interpretations of what's going on.

Maybe.

I don’t think it’s necessary at all, Bardiel already took the concept of violation to its full extent we even had parallels drawn between it and Arael,

I thought so too...

Ritsuko was talking about mental contamination only, am I right?

My take on the translation from here:
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=263863#263863

Ritsuko: Although the traces of cell structure erosion have disappeared, we can't rule out the possibility of mental contamination by the Angel. As it is, we have no choice but to quarantine her.

Maya: (Don't tell me...) She's not going to be disposed of, right?

Ritsuko: She's a valuable sample. That's impossible.

I think all the info we have concerning the contamination was from that conversation?

[Xard]

Interestingly, she says "dame" (No) after realizing that's not what she wants, and then again as "dakara, dame" (So I can't) before blowing up Eva-00.

you can't say that for sure. I always got the feeling Rei was denying her will/need/whachya-have-it instead of rejecting the previous sentence as wrong. After all, angels act as mirros/shadows to pilots towards end of the show: they all illuminate and "act out" innermost feelings and wishes of our pilots. This is what Leliel does, this is what Arael does and you certainly don't doubt state of truth of their "actions" as pilot's "shadow".

I see no reason to think that Armisael case is any different. Previous angels ( and Yui, or Rei, or Shinji's anima or whatever you have it in ep 20) revealed innermost feelings, wishes and repressed memories of all characters. There's no reason to suppose otherwise.

How romantic/sexual this will is against what we see in EoE doesn't matter that much: Rei is multilayered and I don't see why on one level the feeling couldn't have been in certain way "romantic"

but most importantly there isn't that much difference between EoE melding all ppl into one & "sexual" interprepation if we start to break down EoE's thematics and symbolism.

[Sailor Star Dust]

but most importantly there isn't that much difference between EoE melding all ppl into one & "sexual" interpretation if we start to break down EoE's thematics and symbolism.

There is in that Instrumentality is more intimate than sex itself: it's sharing your very SOUL with other people metaphysically, not just sharing your body and emotions.

[Xard]

but most importantly there isn't that much difference between EoE melding all ppl into one & "sexual" interpretation if we start to break down EoE's thematics and symbolism.

There is in that Instrumentality is more intimate than sex itself: it's sharing your very SOUL with other people metaphysically, not just sharing your body and emotions.

Well, I was savouring this for my NGE & Jung essay/topic (if Anno didn't read Jung - and I've read in couple of times the first psychology book he started reading while doing NGE was by him - the "chance" correlates just become ludicruously difficult to believe.) but here's sneak peak:




Normal sex life, as a shared experience with apparently similar aims, further strengthens the feeling of unity and identity. This state is described as one of complete harmony, and is extolled as a great happiness ("one heart and one soul") - not without good reason, since the return to that original condition of unconscious oneness is like a return to childhood. Hence the childish gestures of all lovers. Even more is it a return to the mother's womb, into the teeming depths of an as yet unconscious creativity. It is, in truth, a genuine and incontestable experience of the Divine, whose transcendent force obliterates and consumes everything individual; a real communion with life and the impersonal power of fate.

"Marriage as a Psychological Relationship" (1925). In CW 17: The Development of Personality. P.330


Let's see... one heart and one soul, original unconscious oneness, return to womb, Divinity, transcendent force that obliretates and consumes everything individual...

no miss, every single point of these ain't heavily featured in symbolism, themes and visuals of the movie and show


It also isn't coincidental EoE has so much archetypcal expressions and symbolism of death and rebirth: Death and rebirth are brought together to point of oneness in many ways in movie. After all, it's tag line was "The fate of destruction is also fate of rebirth". A lot of sexual imagery is directly tied to death&rebirth imagery and what isn't is tied to imagery and thematics return to womb & Mother archetype (these categories and symbols heavily overlap in EoE)

And then there are those moments that once again coin together sex/unity & sex/romance/death. For most obvious examples the people literally "melt" to embrace of ones they love but perhaps even more telling example is MPE's climaxing as they die: calling orgasm "little death" is metaphor known for centuries and Anno uses it in very creepy, disgusting and effective way.

[LiLi]

@Xard : Relating to the interesting excerpt you just posted...
With the "being in love" comparison/interpretation, I was alluding to Ayanami's urge to join with Shinji in that sense - completely, body and soul. In a spiritual experience rather than a merely carnal one...

Like someone in love (not lust).

(If I recall, some religions do consider sex as a spiritual experience...)

I remember that episode, where Shinji saw (in his mind) Misato, Rei and Asuka asking him whether he wanted to join with them body and heart "it's a really, really good feeling". I thought that had pretty heavy sexual undertones/implications?

Loneliness was probably a drive behind Rei's urge to unite with him - but isn't it also part of what drives many people in finding a partner to love? Also, Instrumentality seems to spring from the same sense of isolation and loneliness...

I think maybe, Rei has always been lonely - without realizing it - but maybe learning to love Shinji, she has finally *realized* the loneliness she feels and at the same time she has implicitly found a spark of hope, a possible way out of that loneliness for the first time - except, she knows that due to the circumstances, this privilege is denied to her. Of course, it's likely she doesn't realize what she feels could be called "love".

[Xard]

@Xard : With the "being in love" comparison/interpretation, I was alluding to Ayanami's urge to join with Shinji in that sense - completely, body and soul. In a spiritual experience rather than a merely carnal one...

Like someone in love (not lust).

Of course. That's what I mean too. :)

Just because a lot of symbolism is sexual in nature doesn't simply mean Shinji just wants to bone Asuka or Misato or Rei for example. I think (I think it is flatout "told" in numerous obscure and non-obscure ways in the show so I hestiate calling this "interprepation" at all) Rei ultimately is just yearning for human connection and intimacy. After all he pilots Eva because it is one and only thing that bonds her with other people.

There is lots of motifs and symbolism going through show and sex overall (especially in EoE) is of that nature: it shouldn't be interprepted too literally. If that is done we end up with "lol Shinji&Rei had sex in LCL ocean lololololol" stupidity

[User-iel]

@xard - Cogent and definite in your assertions, but would you care to be more aggressive and bring out some hidden insight from within the narrative which will re-frame everything in the light of [insert new conclusion]? That is my best idea to make your essay pierce the heavens.
My two cents for the topic: Is Shinji placed in a Savior role, but one that impacts him in an atypical and literal way? Forget Mankind and expiation and the Future. I wish to promote the idea the Shinji is placed in the responsible position of maturing so he can change the destinies of the characters around him with human actions. Rei needs a way to find the rest of her heart and mind. Asuka needs Real confidence, and to end her relationship with mom. Misato needs someone to interrupt her vengeance and establish a family unit for her to join. The list goes on. This is one key reason Shinji must not use Instrumentality, because without the actual experience of these labors, he cannot grow to become complete and understand his worlds correctly. The penalty is that he would act wrongly if he is still a child, and cannot save anyone. RIAO - now that just can't be right .

@LiLi -

I like the imagery...

Sure! Artwork - Hashin! Let us know when you are ready.

influenced by Bardiel's, err, intervention

OHhh! I have one! Though seriously, she has probably had her worldview dragged around the compass. Maybe she doesn't care who she merges with anymore? Serious relationship hurdle, poison pill for a boy who wants to be acknowledged. On with my humor...

Ritsuko: Although the traces of cell structure erosion have disappeared, we can't rule out the possibility of mental contamination by the Angel. As it is, we have no choice but to quarantine her.

Maya: (Don't tell me...)

The debut of AsukaIAO! Unstable defenses from contamination episode cause polar swings of her personality, giving us a Gainax comedy foil 2D persona, as per comic relief in Shikabane Hime. Narf! She might have loony privacy borders, new and meaningless obsessions, sudden crying fits in public, and -saving it for last- the Q image is of Asuka dropping into character as Harlock, the only way she can pilot.

Yes, where is Kyoko?

I think maybe, Rei has always been lonely

I agree. Furthermore, isn't it logical that she would choose the regressive and absolute fusion as the initial model for her exploration of love? Fortunately she also has intelligence. The two broad avenues of backstory that exist to be justified can either one be used for support. Is it correct that ReiII did not take the place of ReiI immediately, meaning that ReiII is very inexperienced and actually lacks emotional development? Or is it true that the custom engineered domination of her NERV family life has left her with crippling dependency on the other? And is Asuka very different? Her problems are framed as more internal, and her insight is a bit greater, yet in the end she is lonely, and probably farther away from help.

@Synapsid -

I certainly can see an even more twisted version of the Kitchen scene happening

0_O Well, Bardiel was called by some here for having strangulation fetish. She could try to emotionally strangle him? Or I suppose shibari would be no-go for Japanese theater release? Bah, get my mind out of the doujins.
and with @SaltyJoe -

I suppose that Kaworu forcing him might well become a recurring theme

Yes, such that we might use the title and rename him (not)!Kaworu. Do you have an imagining of what might Kaworu use to insure no A/S, but without QM? It's more elegant if he can pretend to be lillin the whole time.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I remember that episode, where Shinji saw (in his mind) Misato, Rei and Asuka asking him whether he wanted to join with them body and heart "it's a really, really good feeling". I thought that had pretty heavy sexual undertones/implications?

1) Reference to Instrumentality later on.

2) Asuka, Rei, and Misato are fronts for Yui in that sequence.

[LiLi]

Sure! Artwork - Hashin! Let us know when you are ready.

Usu! :salutes:

Maybe she doesn't care who she merges with anymore? Serious relationship hurdle, poison pill for a boy who wants to be acknowledged. On with my humor...

I think I see what you did there...

The debut of AsukaIAO! Unstable defenses from contamination episode cause polar swings of her personality, giving us a Gainax comedy foil 2D persona, as per comic relief in Shikabane Hime. Narf! She might have loony privacy borders, new and meaningless obsessions, sudden crying fits in public, and -saving it for last- the Q image is of Asuka dropping into character as Harlock, the only way she can pilot.

I've been thinking of Asuka cosplaying as Harlock since Pirate!Asuka surfaced...

I could see her pulling something like that as a more extreme version of what she was like in the TV series, especially after her "Happy Mask" started slipping...

Yes, where is Kyoko?

On that fateful day, did she go off to buy cigarettes (never to be seen again) instead of taking part in that activation Test? :smoke:

I agree. Furthermore, isn't it logical that she would choose the regressive and absolute fusion as the initial model for her exploration of love? Fortunately she also has intelligence.

Exactly. (Un)fortunately... she has intelligence and a self-sacrificing personality...

And is Asuka very different? Her problems are framed as more internal, and her insight is a bit greater, yet in the end she is lonely, and probably farther away from help.

This is one of the reasons I've been wondering if she isn't actually somehow more similar to Rei (background and all) than she appears to be on the surface... cue a different explanation for her possible 'self-identification' issues with a puppet doll.

Do you have an imagining of what might Kaworu use to insure no A/S, but without QM? It's more elegant if he can pretend to be lillin the whole time.

QM, Sir?

[User-iel]

@LiLi- Gomen. Just trying to join the forum well. I was using too much 1337-speak. QM=Quantum Magic, referring to use of invasive telepathy in Synapsid's discussion above.

I think I see what you did there...

Hai. Referencing published material about survivors of early childhood abuse, and interpreting into the expected plot.

Exactly. (Un)fortunately... she has intelligence and a self-sacrificing personality...

That's why I say Rei is a real trooper. She'll die for the cause; over and over again.

cue a different explanation for her possible 'self-identification' issues with a puppet doll.

Interesting! the "I hate myselves" motive. Real clones mapping out as dissociative personality disorder? If this were to become script, how would it be subtly universalized, to mirror the establishment of identity period for young women in real life? Xard, please feel free to jump in on this if you happen to read it!

Pirate!Asuka

"Hmmpf! You stooges should understand it already - Under my flag, Eva lives free."<heelturn, ascends boarding lift>
Gee, that could get a thread later on, ya'think?