Shinji Can (Not) Play Basketball

[FelipeFritschF]

A funny tidbit I found in an artist account, from the Storyboard Collections.

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Although he's not shown to be physically active, early plans make mention of Shinji being good at sports and dedicated in physical education class as part of overall passivity. In an earlier Episode 5 draft, a scene was included with him playing basketball with Toji, and beating him with "a brilliant shot", driving the attention of his female classmates. Kensuke would also comment that he didn't seem like such a "sports freak".

However, this was deleted as the writers realized they didn't want to make Shinji seem too perfect, and him being oblivious to their attentions also made him more grounded. A scene where he is cheered by his classmates and seen as attractive and popular is retained afterwards, it was meant to be reflecting off it.

When Toji plays alone later in Episode:17, this was originally meant as a callback to this scene, and also to show Toji's self-doubt as he recognized he wasn't actually that good at sports.

[Axx°N N.]

It's funny, because that choice has always amounted (at least for me) as making Toji a Mr. Perfect, or Mr. Sporty, given the tracksuit. I feel like some interesting subversion of stereotypes were missed--only the unathletic, unskilled and unpopular get depressed, or something. We still have Shinji's talents at cooking, but it paints him as domestic and (unfortunately) that's often read as feminine.

Release the Chadji cut!

[FelipeFritschF]

This is something I had wondered myself. From a Western perspective, Shinji seems decidedly unremarkable, a everyman, average kid. He has average intelligence, average (or short) height, is shy, passive, etc. While that's still generally intended, we only see him as a loner, or even a reject/loser taking Western and particularly US-centric standards, particularly from all the way back in 1995. In Asia, Shinji's softer appearance and studiousness actually makes him closer to an ideal, and later on throughout the franchise this had been more normalized as he took on a more ikemen sort of design. He wouldn't seem like a loser for being dedicated and quiet, and far cooler. In fact, it's Toji, the jock, who'd seem like more of a delinquent...

[Capo98y]

This is something I had wondered myself. From a Western perspective, Shinji seems decidedly unremarkable, a everyman, average kid. He has average intelligence, average (or short) height, is shy, passive, etc. While that's still generally intended, we only see him as a loner, or even a reject/loser taking Western and particularly US-centric standards, particularly from all the way back in 1995. In Asia, Shinji's softer appearance and studiousness actually makes him closer to an ideal, and later on throughout the franchise this had been more normalized as he took on a more ikemen sort of design. He wouldn't seem like a loser for being dedicated and quiet, and far cooler. In fact, it's Toji, the jock, who'd seem like more of a delinquent...

I don't think Japanese audiences see Shinji as an ideal of anything, maybe they understand his actions better than we do, but I think he is still seen as a bland-looking and shy character, even Asuka is disappointed the first time she sees him.

[Kendrix]

Interesting.

Haha, that would have made for a pretty different flavor of character compared with the actual set of hobbies he ended up with (music, cooking, astronomy, some spinoffs also make him a hobby writer - all much more "soft"). Though it fits with how some of the proposal images have him looking sportier.

SPOILER: Show

The super early draft also had Kaworu be a great athlete (perhaps also to keep with the parallelism/ as part of being like a cooler version of what Shinji wishes he was)

In the end it was sort of Asuka who got that part/aspect of wowing everyone with various skills upon arrival, but she's going through the motions & not really feeling it - but it's not quite the same as that other version of Shinji would have been given that she's very anti-obedience & counterdependent.
That would've been a character a lot more like Arima from Kare Kano, perhaps.

It does show an interesting cultural difference how in jp the sports thing would have characterized him as "obedient"

In the proposal he was supposed to be a good student and that did make it into the Manga. (consider the "exam battle plans" scene)

But in the anime that isn't explicitly stated and the one time it's mentioned in the show is when Misato says he needs to get his grades up in ep 11, so the impression that sticks is of him not being so good at school.(rather than, as it may have been intended, a temporary slump due to piloting-related stress and missing a week of school in both eps 4 and 9)

Though the angle of Touji not being as good at his hobby & his fake confidence denial somewhat crumbling when he picked as a pilot could have been an interesting character beat.


In the final conversation its more like Shinji is the timid best friend to two stock shonen protagonists. Touji is the tough protective one & Kensuke is the eager idealistic guy (a lot like Jean from Nadia) & on the face look more like hero archetypes.
But by twist of fate Shinji is the chosen one, whereas Kensuke does not get picked & Touji gets no heroic beginner's luck & gets wrecked in his first mission.

Also Shinji being oblivious to the fangirls reinforces the whole theme that is later explicitly spelled out in EoTV that he's just not used to being treated positively & shooting himself in the foot through negative expectations. If one of them confessed to him he would probably have quickly destroyed her interest by becoming overwhelmed & stammering nervously, or he would have shot her down thinking she only wants him cause he's a pilot & would quickly lose interest if she knew "his real self".

[asakuraikun]

That's quite interesting, and knowing this make the lone basketball scene seem a bit different. It makes sense in the light that Toji, recently selected to be an EVA pilot wonders if he's really able to do it, if even Shinji who beat him was struggling so much (which he saw up close in the Entry Plug). That being said, I can understand why they didn't keep it up.

About the discussion about Shinji's qualities and cultural perspectives, I think the thing is that Shinji is truly just a regular person - and a regular person does exceed in a few things, that's just how a regular person actually is. Always good to mention, the "average person" is a mathematical construct, since nobody is truly average in every single thing. Shinji's good with domestic affairs and is no newbie on playing the cello, he's bad at socialising and probably average in many other things such as appearance.

TLDR being "average" means exceeding a few things and being worse at other things. It doesn't mean being at the middle point at everything, as most people seem to confuse frequently (not saying anyone here made that mistake).

But the fangirls still makes me a bit... confused, I admit. Is Shinji kind of handsome or did piloting the EVA make him more popular?

[Szmitten]

Memories the deleted EoE scene at the ruined school before evacuation with wheelchair Toji balling and Kensuke narrating while Shinji does nothing and drops the ball when it's passed.

[FelipeFritschF]

I think what's at play here is different standards and expectations. Now, let us recall that despite taking place in the distant future of 2015, Eva was made by Japanese people in 1995, for Japanese audiences. If stereotypically a Western, or, particularly, a US "popular" guy in middle/high school, especially in the 90s, would be an extroverted jock (so, Toji), in Japan Toji is much more of a wacky kid, because being so into sports but kinda dumb overall in fact makes him seem kind like a sports otaku (hence perhaps why he's friends with a military otaku, Kensuke). Whereas Shinji, although indeed too quiet, is an applied and dedicated guy, so he's closer to Asian standards of masculinity. Additionally, he's generally considered handsome (as commented or alluded to by Misato, Ritsuko and Asuka). This was played to the audience sometimes in NGE, but over time and in merch and promotional material (as well as more so in NTE), Shinji progressively took on more of a ikemen/bishounen aura. For Western standards (at the time, today this has been more mixed), Shinji is much more of a nerdy kid, much more of a loner, much more of a loser. In NGE's school setting, he's not nearly that negative, but he retracts himself and is kinda left alone. I guess that also adds to his overall passivity.

I have talked about this before with Korean and Chinese fans who often give me some material and they mentioned how to them the 90s American high school trope of "cliche athletic boys are actually a meme of a sort and considered near-gross". You can think of something like Light Yagami as an extreme example of this in anime/manga - he's extremely groomed, studious, and intelligent. He does play sports, but it's not his focus at all. In DN multiple times he's commented as being too perfect, "raised for success", and of course, this hides a dark secret that he's a rotten, dark soul, a narcissist.

Contrast this with Gendo too, particularly in Ep 21, wherein he's 31-32. He's scrawny, gruffed, a troublemaker. And presented as a criminal and delinquent.

[asakuraikun]

I think what's at play here is different standards and expectations. Now, let us recall that despite taking place in the distant future of 2015, Eva was made by Japanese people in 1995, for Japanese audiences. If stereotypically a Western, or, particularly, a US "popular" guy in middle/high school, especially in the 90s, would be an extroverted jock (so, Toji), in Japan Toji is much more of a wacky kid, because being so into sports but kinda dumb overall in fact makes him seem kind like a sports otaku (hence perhaps why he's friends with a military otaku, Kensuke). Whereas Shinji, although indeed too quiet, is an applied and dedicated guy, so he's closer to Asian standards of masculinity.

Although I think you are generally right, I think that doesn't hold entirely. At least not in Shinji's case.

I won't claim to know what Japanese standards were in mid-90s, after all I just know the culture through media consumption, people I know and I don't have a time machine, but generally characters who were characterised as "masculine" at that time were quite different from Shinji. That is true for media written both by males and females at the time, and they match quite often. I think the confusion here is what people values in males at the society (studious, dedicated, intelligent, successful) and "masculinity", which is the set of behaviours people expect (or people think to be suitable) of men in general, which are not necessarily good.

e.g. in western society people expected men to be money earners and to protect their family (valued), but males *should not* be too gentle or express feelings (if not you don't fit the standard of "masculinity").

I think your description matches more the first (what society values in males), that Shinji surely holds. Obviously, Shinji is a kid/teen too, makes sense since his development was not completed yet. I'm not very sympathetic to grouping 'asians' generally because their cultures are quite different, this seems to be a mistake we westerners make frequently to non-westerners too.

About Shinji's appearance I think you are right, I just didn't remember their remarks

[viperzero]

A funny tidbit I found in an artist account, from the Storyboard Collections.

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

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— twitter-user (@username) date

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Although he's not shown to be physically active, early plans make mention of Shinji being good at sports and dedicated in physical education class as part of overall passivity. In an earlier Episode 5 draft, a scene was included with him playing basketball with Toji, and beating him with "a brilliant shot", driving the attention of his female classmates. Kensuke would also comment that he didn't seem like such a "sports freak".

However, this was deleted as the writers realized they didn't want to make Shinji seem too perfect, and him being oblivious to their attentions also made him more grounded. A scene where he is cheered by his classmates and seen as attractive and popular is retained afterwards, it was meant to be reflecting off it.

When Toji plays alone later in Episode:17, this was originally meant as a callback to this scene, and also to show Toji's self-doubt as he recognized he wasn't actually that good at sports.

I always feel like he bulked up a bit between the start of the show when he looks very skinny without clothes compared to the end were he looks a bit broader and muscular.

[DTGee]

I think this may have at least partially been replaced with the cello scene. Shinji is extremely talented, but he doesn't see himself as good at all, and he doesn't use his talent to connect to others.