The Curse of Eva....sigh

[Asunji_Yuko]

There are many things in the NTE Eva to discuss....but I want to discuss this one.

I do not understand why this plot device was necessary. Anno wanted everyone else around Shinji to be older and for us to feel the time jump, sure, but doesn't the Curse of Eva kind of defeat that?

I don't recall anything in the original or the NTE that requires the pilots to be a particular age range (physically or mentally), just that they need to be related to the soul inhabiting the core of the Eva. So, hypothetically, a nephew/niece, grandchild, sibling, or even parent could pilot an Eva so long as its core were ensouled by their family member. Maybe pilots could even pilot multiple Evangelions so long as they were related to both, like if Asuka and Shinji had multiple kids, any of them could pilot either 01 or 02. Anyway....

Since Shinji was in suspended animation for 15 years, that could've been used to explain his physical and mental state VERY easily. I have the feeling the Curse of Eva was created so that they didn't have to animate an adult Asuka or even sell more figures of the original....despite the fact that now, the adult Asuka figure is what's selling now.

[Konja7]

The "curse of Eva" wasn't really created to mantain Asuka young. In itself, Asuka being fused with the Nine Angel could be enough explanation for her to not age.

However, they don't want to reveal this information so soon in 3.0. So, they created the "curse of Eva" as a vague and fast explanation.

Since Shinji was in suspended animation for 15 years, that could've been used to explain his physical and mental state VERY easily. I have the feeling the Curse of Eva was created so that they didn't have to animate an adult Asuka or even sell more figures of the original....despite the fact that now, the adult Asuka figure is what's selling now.

I don't think it was so much about "not wanting create adult Asuka figures". They just prefer to mantain Asuka as a teenager.

Asuka being unable to grow also important for her arc in 3.0+1.0.

[Asunji_Yuko]

The "curse of Eva" wasn't really created to mantain Asuka young. In itself, Asuka being fused with the Nine Angel could be enough explanation for her to not age.

However, they don't want to reveal this information so soon in 3.0. So, they created the "curse of Eva" as a vague and fast explanation.

Since Shinji was in suspended animation for 15 years, that could've been used to explain his physical and mental state VERY easily. I have the feeling the Curse of Eva was created so that they didn't have to animate an adult Asuka or even sell more figures of the original....despite the fact that now, the adult Asuka figure is what's selling now.

I don't think it was so much about "not wanting create adult Asuka figures". They just prefer to mantain Asuka as a teenager.

Asuka being unable to grow also important for her arc in 3.0+1.0.

I don't see how her being physically a teenager contributed to her arc. Because she was finally physically grown up on the beach? Uh...there are a million different ways they could've shown she'd symbolically moved on from Evangelion.

[Blockio]

No, I think that the Curse of Eva is a thematically rather fitting plot device; NTE spends no shortage of its time on pondering holding on to vs letting go of the past, and how one's past can hold one back in return; I'd go as far as calling it one of its core themes

[Axx°N N.]

However, they don't want to reveal this information so soon in 3.0. So, they created the "curse of Eva" as a vague and fast explanation.

I think this is the first time I've seen this reasoning, that it was a bit of filler lore? I don't see what in the text reasonably contributes to that idea, and to my mind, even if it was invented as a temporary and ultimately unimportant kind of red herring, it still exists and the attempt to just forget about it would be some seriously wonk scripting. On the contrary, I think certain elements in 3.0+1.0 hammer home the idea of the experience of being an Eva Pilot being one of inherent alienation, or else why include the collars or open on our iconic trio wandering in a ruined landscape? You could argue that Mari subverts this premise, but it's by attitude alone, as she still has a choker and there's still the concept of the bombs around her quarters.

No, I think that the Curse of Eva is a thematically rather fitting plot device; NTE spends no shortage of its time on pondering holding on to vs letting go of the past, and how one's past can hold one back in return.

They don't seem to be arguing that it isn't fitting, but that there were better alternatives, or ulterior motives. It's kind of off the point to justify the choice on pure dramatic grounds, and it paints in my head a far more serious vision of the films than actually exist. It's pretty reasonable to question the secondary reasons for the choice when every opportunity, especially those that could be better serviced by dramatic conceits, is taken to put Asuka's eternally teenage body into compromising and sexually-leering configurations.

[Konja7]

I think this is the first time I've seen this reasoning, that it was a bit of filler lore?

To be fair, we don't have confirmation for nine years that Asuka was contaminated for the Ninth Angel. So, many people just assumed the only reason the "Curse of Eva" existed is to mantain Asuka young.

On the contrary, I think certain elements in 3.0+1.0 hammer home the idea of the experience of being an Eva Pilot being one of inherent alienation, or else why include the collars or open on our iconic trio wandering in a ruined landscape? You could argue that Mari subverts this premise, but it's by attitude alone, as she still has a choker and there's still the concept of the bombs around her quarters.

I agree with this. The concept of the "Curse of Eva" also works to represent the alienation of the pilots in 3.0+1.0.

That's also shown when Asuka forces Shinji to eat.

[kuribo-04]

No, I think that the Curse of Eva is a thematically rather fitting plot device; NTE spends no shortage of its time on pondering holding on to vs letting go of the past, and how one's past can hold one back in return; I'd go as far as calling it one of its core themes

Exactly this.

Also, read or watch Anno interviews and a constant with him is repeating that not all people become adults (he even said this about Hayao Miyazaki...while sitting next to him lol).

Asuka, Shinji, Kaworu etc just strike me as people that don't fit into what you'd expect of adult life, while characters like Misato I see struggling but making it work.

[Cola-09]

I've read so many interpretations, lore-wise as well as meta-textual and they all somewhat have a point. My favorite being Anno and the fandom keeping EVA alive, ultimately preventing the characters to move on.

[kuribo-04]

I've read so many interpretations, lore-wise as well as meta-textual and they all somewhat have a point. My favorite being Anno and the fandom keeping EVA alive, ultimately preventing the characters to move on.

Yeah that fits well too cause the character are literally saying "It's the curse of Eva", Eva being possible to be read as the franchise.

[Asunji_Yuko]

No, I think that the Curse of Eva is a thematically rather fitting plot device; NTE spends no shortage of its time on pondering holding on to vs letting go of the past, and how one's past can hold one back in return; I'd go as far as calling it one of its core themes

Exactly this.

Also, read or watch Anno interviews and a constant with him is repeating that not all people become adults (he even said this about Hayao Miyazaki...while sitting next to him lol).

Asuka, Shinji, Kaworu etc just strike me as people that don't fit into what you'd expect of adult life, while characters like Misato I see struggling but making it work.

Yes, because Anno won't write them any differently. "These teenagers who have never been anything but teenagers have never seemed like adults to me."

And whether it's the angel or the "curse of Eva" isn't really important. Point is, Anno himself only wants the OG crew to be teens for no good reason. Sure, they're isolated as pilots - isolation isn't limited to teenagers. We see that in pretty much all the characters in Evangelion. The chokers alone would be an effective way to show that isolation. You could even use a poorly-fit plugsuit, tattered and bound with duct tape, to illustrate how they're trapped.

[ChrisTamv]

Point is, Anno himself only wants the OG crew to be teens for no good reason.

The Evas represent the means used to fulfill one's escapist desires, as well as, ironically, a safe space that will unconditionally protect its pilot like a mother would and act as a band aid for their deepest insecurities and internal conflicts. Be it lack of self-worth in Asuka's case, or lack of identity all around in the case of Rei.

Because of all of the above, practically the pilots do not have to address their biggest insecurities and fears and improve. One doesn't really mature until he has done this, hence the Curse of Eva.

Even 14 years later, and despite what Asuka may characteristically claim, she's still in insecure child on the inside.

[BernardoCairo]

There is definitely an explanation behind what it really is. But as of now, I personally see it as a way for the movies to keep the pilots young without having to waste time detailing why this is the case. I think it works a lot, to be honest. It's even somewhat mysterious, which works for EVA.

[Axx°N N.]

The Evas represent the means used to fulfill one's escapist desires, as well as, ironically, a safe space that will unconditionally protect its pilot like a mother would and act as a band aid for their deepest insecurities and internal conflicts. Be it lack of self-worth in Asuka's case, or lack of identity all around in the case of Rei.

Because of all of the above, practically the pilots do not have to address their biggest insecurities and fears and improve. One doesn't really mature until he has done this, hence the Curse of Eva.

Even 14 years later, and despite what Asuka may characteristically claim, she's still in insecure child on the inside.

I'm not saying this is all completely off-base, but ... what about Mari? How does Mari fit into this metaphorical framework? "If you're developmentally stunted but have a good attitude, it doesn't matter"?

A metaphor isn't very coherent if we can say it doesn't apply in 1/4 cases. Now that I think of it, you can argue it's more like 1/3 cases, or even 1/2, which makes it all the less convincing.

Escapism means to avoid problematic elements. If the Evas are problematic, isn't using them as ingredients to conjure a wish and using that wish to get rid of Evas (disappearing a problematic element instead of staring it down and coping somehow) just as reliant on Evas and just as escapist by definition? I don't see how it can be conflated into a metaphor that actually works; in what real-world use can we use a problematic element in a way that allows us to disappear it in the manner of Instrumentality?

I also don't really read much of what happens in NTE as the pilot having unconditional faith in their Evas ... they go berserk and shit goes wrong in them all the time.

I think NTE is more plot-oriented than you're suggesting, because Mari wishes the Evas well in their crucifixion as if she views them as mercy killings and thus also victims in the whole grand eldritch scheme. I can't conceive of how you can fit that into a metaphorical framework, either, it seems to rather be the way the movies themselves view the Evas.

[Konja7]

Escapism means to avoid problematic elements. If the Evas are problematic, isn't using them as ingredients to conjure a wish and using that wish to get rid of Evas (disappearing a problematic element instead of staring it down and coping somehow) just as reliant on Evas and just as escapist by definition? I don't see how it can be conflated into a metaphor that actually works; in what real-world use can we use a problematic element in a way that allows us to disappear it in the manner of Instrumentality?

To be fair, there are people who could understand the metaphor the way is presented in the movie. So, the metaphor works for that people.

In ChisTamv interpretation, the Evas are a representation of escapism wish. In 3.0+1.0, Shinji erasing the Evas represents he deciding to give up his escapist desires.

[Axx°N N.]

To be fair, there are people who could understand the metaphor the way is presented in the movie. So, the metaphor works for that people.

I'm more disagreeing with the idea that this is the metaphor presented in the movie. I'm not sure the film goes to such great pains to craft the metaphor as is suggested by the interpretation. Otherwise, Mari would logically be undermining how taut the metaphor functions.

[kuribo-04]

[
I'm not saying this is all completely off-base, but ... what about Mari? How does Mari fit into this metaphorical framework? "If you're developmentally stunted but have a good attitude, it doesn't matter"?

I think Mari is clearly a hardcore otaku stand in.

[Axx°N N.]

I think Mari is clearly a hardcore otaku stand in.

Wouldn't that be Kensuke? Mari is many things that to me don't translate to real-life hardcore otaku, not least of which the fact she's shown to be a highly skilled scientist and proficient at combat.

I don't see why the curse covers Mari but not Kensuke if the factor is otakudom.

[Asunji_Yuko]

Point is, Anno himself only wants the OG crew to be teens for no good reason.

The Evas represent the means used to fulfill one's escapist desires, as well as, ironically, a safe space that will unconditionally protect its pilot like a mother would and act as a band aid for their deepest insecurities and internal conflicts. Be it lack of self-worth in Asuka's case, or lack of identity all around in the case of Rei.

Because of all of the above, practically the pilots do not have to address their biggest insecurities and fears and improve. One doesn't really mature until he has done this, hence the Curse of Eva.

Even 14 years later, and despite what Asuka may characteristically claim, she's still in insecure child on the inside.

Even if the Evangelions were to represent such a thing (which is questionable at best*), this doesn't necessitate the pilots remain physically teenagers to communicate it. What's more important is how they are on the inside, not the outside. I.e., their characterization rather than their designs. How characters act is infinitely more important than how they look in any story.

You can talk about how the Curse of Eva served as an appropriate metaphor for Evangelion until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make better, less ham-fisted ways of communicating those metaphors (or the ulterior motives for keeping the teenager designs) any less obvious.

*While the Evangelions certainly represent a mother protecting her children, they're not "safe" because pilots are regularly injured or even die within them, nor do they always provide the means to fulfill escapist desires as piloting humiliates and horrifies just as much (if not more than) it fulfills.

[kuribo-04]

I think Mari is clearly a hardcore otaku stand in.

Wouldn't that be Kensuke? Mari is many things that to me don't translate to real-life hardcore otaku, not least of which the fact she's shown to be a highly skilled scientist and proficient at combat.

I don't see why the curse covers Mari but not Kensuke if the factor is otakudom.

I think Mari is a mecha otaku pretty much.
And well, Kensuke just isn't a pilot. But even if we were to consider him, I don't see Mari living a life as normal as adult Kensuke does

[Axx°N N.]

And well, Kensuke just isn't a pilot. But even if we were to consider him, I don't see Mari living a life as normal as adult Kensuke does

What's she running toward at the end, then? She doesn't seem to have too many misgivings when she bids the Evas farewell. She emerges rather confident from the water. I don't really see anything that would get in the way of a normal life--she's not like the other pilots, in that we aren't shown any obvious hurdle or obstacle that needs to be overcome. I don't see anything that really differentiates her from Kensuke or from normal life. Wouldn't you say her reading goals are more where her passion lies, and that Eva piloting actually just gets in the way of that? What in NTE contributes to the idea of her being a mecha otaku?