Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. The Rebuild of Evangelion

[Giji Shinka]

Here's a comparison between both versions.
Part 1
Part 2

Thoughts?

[monitoradiation]

I only saw Part 1 about a week ago and will have to see Part 2. I think that NGE and NME are two very different beasts in terms of delivery and style and agree with his assessment that a lot of the mystical and esoteric elements in NGE no longer exist in NME. It's done that way by design because they simply cannot stuff 26 episodes + EoE esque show into a 4 movie format. So the movies are fast paced and lose a lot of the character of NGE.

I especially agree with the part that NGE had a lot of foreboding background ambience that feels menacing and overbearing... As the viewer you feel like something big is coming, but you don't know what, and you would be powerless to stop it.

NME doesn't feel like this at all. Everyone seems at least somewhat in control of what's going on in the story. Partly because we already know a lot of what evangelion is, but I attribute this mainly to the fact that NGE had a tighter budget and needed to fill in space so there were a lot of drawn out scenes of no motion at all, and sometimes they would animate only the lower parts of the face so as to not have to animate the eyes, etc. That sometimes gave it a lot of mysterious feelings to it that NME simply does not have.

On top of that, a lot of the messed up character backstories are just obliterated due to time in NME... Again, it's the time it would take to fill in all that backstory. Just not feasible in a 4 movie format.


Edit: Just watched part 2. COMPLETELY. AGREED.

NGE is to NME like Kubrick is to Spielberg.

[Guy Nacks]

I think the best thing that can be summed up is this:


If I was totally new to both NGE and NME, seeing NME first would make me think something along the lines of:

"Well, that was interesting. Cool concept. Good animation. Eh, I like it, but not as memorable as Akira or Princess Mononoke".....and I would probably never rewatch it.

When a friend of mine first showed me the Platinum Boxset of NGE that she had and wanted to plan to watch it with me, honestly, I really wasn't looking forward to it. I've never been really hardcore into anime and only like a handful of titles. But the show had so many characters, moments and scenes that were so fleshed out an memorable, with TWO endings that were so utterly unique and fascinating in their execution that it stuck with me.

NGE ultimately had the X-Factor, whereas NTE tries to, but fails because NGE fans are unable to separate our preconceived notions of the same characters from the TV series(at least before 3.0). I somehow get the idea that Khara want prior fans to rely on that additional characterization from the series so they don't have to develop them much in NME and this make this problem that much more difficult to deal with.

Thus, nothing in NME has felt as original as the TV series. The timeskip was out of left field, yeah, but it's a trope that i've seen before, and after the novelty wore off it just felt as though it was a forced attempt to recreate the moodiness of the latter half of the series in an almost haphazard and artificial fashion instead of a slow, rational descent into despair which the series accomplished during that "descent" arc. Also, since all supporting characters have far lessened importance apparently, there will be no scenes showcasing their inner issues like the series did.

And to all those who are like "Shut the fuck up and wait until 4.0".....seriously guys. Even if NGE had ended without an EoE, the series still would have resonated with me because of the pure originality of the EOTV ending, and for the strength of character and story moments in almost every episode of the series, especially 16-24.

I just can't help thinking that the original Star Wars series, for example, didn't need to rely so heavily on ROTJ to answer a billion questions raised by the previous two films as, which are amazing films and enjoyable in their own right.



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[WunderBah]

I still like the NME editions in their own write imo, yes even Q.

Nice comparison by the way!

[Dr. Talos]

I remember watching part 1 of this quite a while ago and thinking Demolition D was really on point. Now that part 2 is out I find myself still agreeing with most of what he says.

I do enjoy Rebuild but there is the distinct feeling that there is a layer of depth missing when compared to NGE and this video aptly demonstrates the ways in which the characters besides Shinji and possibly Rei have suffered in terms of their depth and development in Rebuild. At times it feels like they are relying upon us remembering the character backstories from NGE and calling it a day with the character development.

Still as he says on its own Rebuild is quite enjoyable. A shame it's impossible to view them in isolation.

[Giji Shinka]

Yeh, characters have less visible depth, but IMO that isn't necessary a bad thing. (I'm not saying that you guys indicated it in your posts :P)
They have some depth, but it's more subtle in rebuilt. (In mai opinion)

I love NME MUCH more, because you can relate to the characters much easier than in the original series and plot is even more over the top.

[Dream]

Man, it feels like i'm watching apples and oranges. Not very sure how he got the impression that the Rebuild films were less emotionally arresting than NGE, though.

In any case, cool guy and great videos. Subscribed.

Oh, and complaining that NME fails in aspects where NGE presumably succeeded is analogous to complaining that your ice cream lacks sauce. If Anno was interested in making Rebuild take the same direction as NGE, Mari would have never existed. And really, considering Rebuild's aims and nature, accusations of lack of character development (at least the expected kind) is downright silly.

Overall i get the impression that a lot of the mentioned "flaws" with rebuild is just expectations from old-school NGE fans rather than any problem with the film itself. Of course that's not to say Rebuild doesn't have anything to do with NGE at all (IIRC Anno said in an interview that he intends NME to have some meta-value in thematics and such).

I'll admit that i understand his gripes with, say, Misato, however. Even if it might not share the sentiment due to aforementioned reasons.

I would, however, agree that there isn't as much of an "human" element in the Rebuilds (partly due to runtime differences i guess) but i sure as hell don't feel that drags NME down, on the contrary.

[Giji Shinka]

Yeah, we don't get to know these characters well enough to consider them "more human." (Except Shinji) It's very natural to think that way about NME characters. (This applies in real life too)

[Sailor Star Dust]

(IIRC Anno said in an interview that he intends NME to have some meta-value in thematics and such).

Could you try to dig up the source? I'm curious about that interview now.

Personally, I see NGE and NME as apples to oranges, too. Different formats, different story being told, but both are good in their own right.

[Rei IV]

While I believe there are aspects of NGE that excel over (and is superior to) NTE, I have no qualms admitting I prefer the theatrical movies over the anime series.

[WunderBah]

Man, it feels like i'm watching apples and oranges. Not very sure how he got the impression that the Rebuild films were less emotionally arresting than NGE, though.

In any case, cool guy and great videos. Subscribed.

Oh, and complaining that NME fails in aspects where NGE presumably succeeded is analogous to complaining that your ice cream lacks sauce. If Anno was interested in making Rebuild take the same direction as NGE, Mari would have never existed. And really, considering Rebuild's aims and nature, accusations of lack of character development (at least the expected kind) is downright silly.

Overall i get the impression that a lot of the mentioned "flaws" with rebuild is just expectations from old-school NGE fans rather than any problem with the film itself. Of course that's not to say Rebuild doesn't have anything to do with NGE at all (IIRC Anno said in an interview that he intends NME to have some meta-value in thematics and such).

I'll admit that i understand his gripes with, say, Misato, however. Even if it might not share the sentiment due to aforementioned reasons.

I would, however, agree that there isn't as much of an "human" element in the Rebuilds (partly due to runtime differences i guess) but i sure as hell don't feel that drags NME down, on the contrary.

I agree here, while I've enjoyed NGE myself, i can't lie and think i haven't enjoyed NME more to be fair.

[Dream]

Could you try to dig up the source? I'm curious about that interview now.

Something i read off-hand in one of the CRC threads. Sorry that i don't give a link but i don't have time to search for it right now, maybe later.

[Mr. Tines]

Thoughts?

Character shallowness was definitely part of the whole Ha-hate thing.

At 4.5 years remove though, I can't really recall what it was in the trailers to Ha that really tripped my "bad feeling about this" sense even before we had the full text, beyond notions that it seemed to be all change for no good reason; something that Q reinforced by then dropping pretty much all of those changes on the floor, doubling their pointlessness.

[Giji Shinka]

Third part.
Some parts i disagree.

[Mr. Tines]

All in all, sounded reasonable to me -- once we agree to differ on the contention that NGE had anything to do with religion (save in its broadest context as a balm for the Human Condition), or that the sequel theory should even be entertained in passing.

[Dr. Talos]

Solid third part. His focus on religious aspects of NGE is a bit contentious but I agree with the style over substance claims. Don't like the talk of the sequel theory though and for me it being true wouldn't do a thing to make me less unimpressed with the character development in Rebuild. Overall a pretty great comparison series, especially the first part. I look forward to DemoD putting out more interesting content.

[WunderBah]

Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sATCoI7Ozk4

EDIT: Ninja'd. Argh!

[Singularity84]

Third part.

Well, that came out a little faster than I remember the last one did. Kudos to the maker.

Anyway, things I made note of while watching this:

Less is More: I disagree with his thoughts on NGE vs. NME on the less is more aspect, this mostly applies to the Angel battles however. I feel like the NGE Angel battles had little to no impact on me despite a few standouts. Whereas, in NME, they had less angels, but the actual fight stuck out a lot more as an important moment. Which actually contradicts him praising NGE for less=more, considering we had less Angel fights in NME, but they were more memorable and left a larger impression. The NGE angels felt like a monster of the week thing to me, considering they rarely did anything or actually felt intimidating. However, I do agree with him on the religious symbolism and blood aspects. Although it looks pretty on screen in NME, nothing can match the actual impact any symbolism would have in NGE...so far.

Budget Cuts: Although we did get Kaworu's death sequence, we also got the infamous elevator sequence, and the train station scene in an earlier episode. We also got treated to storyboard images in the last two episodes. Not to say I hated all the obvious budget cuts in the last few episodes though. I loved the quick text flashes we got in place of animation as well as the pencil drawings. Despite people complaining about that, those things made the final episodes much more visually appealing.

Shinji as an Action Hero: The fist move established the Shinji we already knew, except I felt it made him slightly more...empathetical. I didn't like Shinji in NGE or 1.01, I didn't hate him, but he never was a likeable character. In 1.01, I could at least pity him more. He was whiny and annoying, but I still was able to feel sorry for him. NGE Shinji is kinda like your average little emo kid, he seems like he was almost made to be hated. 2.22 shows us the Shinji we wanted to see, who was capable of some pretty bad ass stuff, hes matured since the last film and we get to see a protagonist we like. For this reason, we are impacted more as an audience, when this likable character gets hurt, or fucks everything up. 3.33 we see him broken and helpless, he is no longer the action hero we liked, and now only wishes companionship. He was in no way an action hero in the 3rd movie, hell by the end hes the same broken shell we see in End of Eva.

Shinji's eyes being covered while mutilating Asuka: I loved this scene when I fist saw it. To me I always though the redesigned Dummy System resembled a mother shielding her child from a grusome occurance. This also makes what Shinji's going through more powerful. He cannot begin to comprehend whats going on. All he can hear is the crunch of an entry plug and screams of pain. A scream of pain from someone he wanted to befriend.

I agreed with him a lot in the other two videos, but not so much this one. I feel like hes slightly blinded by his love of NGE that he can't pick out the flaws it also had. Also, we don't have a fourth movie yet. Sure it is in no way going to tie up every last plot hole, but both End of Eva and the last two NGE episodes, also failed at that task.

[WunderBah]

Anyway, things I made note of while watching this:

While there are some parts i don't agree here, you mostly took the words right out of my mouth.

Please don't quote entire posts when replying to them! - SSD

[monitoradiation]

Shinji's eyes being covered while mutilating Asuka: I loved this scene when I fist saw it. To me I always though the redesigned Dummy System resembled a mother shielding her child from a grusome occurance. This also makes what Shinji's going through a more powerful scene. He cannot begin to comprehend whats going on. All he can hear is the crunch of an entry plug and screams of pain. A scream of pain from someone he wanted to befriend.

Disagree with you here. The design intent of the Dummy System is to coerce the Eva to fight and remove the pilot from the equation. Forcefully. There's nothing benevolent about that nor magnanimous; or even malevolent. The Dummy System is an amoral control designed for only one thing - autopilot. Anything else like "the feeling that the Dummy System is protecting Shinji from seeing the carnage" is you projecting your compassion onto a system that is intrinsically amoral.

If anything, I submit that the moral dimension of employing such a system lies with whoever deployed it, and in this case, Gendo. And there's likely no consideration for Shinji's wellbeing in 2.0 when the dummy was used.

As to the overall effect of Shinji not seeing Eva-03 get obliterated but can only hear it: I would say that the only fact that should unsettle him is whether or not the pilot is OK. And seeing the plug get crushed removes way more doubt in his mind as to the survival of the pilot than hearing a crunch.

So I would argue that Shinji not being able to see the crush can only be used to argue that he is more in-the-dark than his NGE counterpart regarding the status of Eva-03's pilot. NGE's scene had more impact to Shinji because by necessity, seeing AND hearing would have more veracity than simply hearing.

I agreed with him a lot in the other two videos, but not so much this one. I feel like hes slightly blinded by his love of NGE that he can't pick out the flaws it also had. Also, we don't have a fourth movie yet. Sure it is in no way going to tie up every last plot hole, but both End of Eva and the last two NGE episodes, also failed at that task.

Curious as to which plot holes you're speaking of in EoE and EoTV... But that's probably for another thread...

As to the 4th movie, he did note that at the very beginning. Also, I think you're losing sight that there's only one more movie left. That's 1/4 of the tetralogy in run-time, unless Anno makes the last movie 8 hours long (which I would love to see), a lot of what he's saying isn't going to be changed simply by their last-minute addition to 4.0.