Asuka's "Death" in EoE

[Harmless]

-SPOILER-

Ok, i just have to write this. Im not as crazy huge anime fan really, i do appreciate the good ones (obviously since im here). I saw EoE a few years back, as well as Death and Rebirth. I was disturbed and managed to forget i ever saw it. Came to college, went over to a friend's room, the kid across the hall brought it up saying "have u ever heard of NGE??? that sh*t is f*cked up". I was like, "tell me about it". So now i started watching again thanks to [Adult Swim] showing it.

-o, and i do have a question, so if u've read this far and think im just going nowhere with this... im getting there.

So i started thinking about EoE more and more and i finally saw the original ending (ep. 25 and 26). and i gotta say, all things considered, the original ending doesnt f*ck with u and i think i like it better.

EoE was awesome until the vulture dudes tore Eva 02 apart, and was like "wtf?!" thats bullsh*t" Imagine the movie "Homeward Bound" but at the end the cat gets killed somehow. I thought that it was totally unnecessary and completely avoidable.

-heres a few ideas
-why didnt Eva 02 just eat one of the vultures to get an S2 engine??? Eva 01 did it, i dont see why not Asuka could have gone nuts and done it (esspecially considering the situation she was in)
-When the lance hit Eva 02 to start the horrible scene, it hit cuz her AT field turned off cuz she ran out of power (im not sure on this, its concievable the lance is just an AT penetrating thing as seen in its other uses) So anyways, if her Eva is off, why would she be taking damage when it does?? Like i get how when u pilot an Eva and it looses an arm, u loose an arm. But it was turned off, i dont think such a connection would be on while it was turned off.

-sorry if someone else already brought this up, i tried searching before i posted this.

-so ya in general im just looking for some kind of discussion/justification for the worst ending to one of the best fight I've ever seen. After seeing it i couldnt get past it and dont remember the rest of the movie, it just pissed me off.

*plus Shinji is an ass, and shoulda gotten out there quicker and f*cked some sh*t up. The movie would have been so much better and lost NO integrity if they had 5 min. of Eva 01 and Eva 02 throwin down hardcore.

[jcmoorehead]

I'll try to answer as best I can, might be in a different order but these are what I managed to get out of it.

-When the lance hit Eva 02 to start the horrible scene, it hit cuz her AT field turned off cuz she ran out of power (im not sure on this, its concievable the lance is just an AT penetrating thing as seen in its other uses) So anyways, if her Eva is off, why would she be taking damage when it does?? Like i get how when u pilot an Eva and it looses an arm, u loose an arm. But it was turned off, i dont think such a connection would be on while it was turned off.

Because its possible for the Evas to come alive without a Power Source if you remember, at that point Asuka has a 100% Sync rate I think so she pretty much is the Eva and will feel everything as if it is her getting hurt.

EoE was awesome until the vulture dudes tore Eva 02 apart, and was like "wtf?!" thats bullsh*t" Imagine the movie "Homeward Bound" but at the end the cat gets killed somehow. I thought that it was totally unnecessary and completely avoidable.

I hated that scene, I know why it was there but seeing Asuka get torn apart like that was horrible.

-why didnt Eva 02 just eat one of the vultures to get an S2 engine??? Eva 01 did it, i dont see why not Asuka could have gone nuts and done it (esspecially considering the situation she was in)

Because Asuka was Controlling Eva 02. Eva 01 ate the S2 Engine because it was acting of its own free will Shinji was not controlling it.

[Harmless]

yea, ur probably right... still thats bullsh*t, lol.

It would be odd if Asuka did, willingly, just kill one of those things and start eating it. The scene would be pretty horrible, seeing as she probably wouldn't take much delight in it.

I think Eva 02 should have had a berserker. I mena ya Eva 01 is more of a Beast, but while fighting an army of super-regenerating, cruel, torturing vulture robots i can imagine just about anything going berserk. If there was ever a time to go Super Sayian, thats it.

You know whose fault this??? the stupid SEELE army, they intentionally went after her power cable... assh*les. lol.

[Sound Only]

-why didnt Eva 02 just eat one of the vultures to get an S2 engine??? Eva 01 did it, i dont see why not Asuka could have gone nuts and done it (esspecially considering the situation she was in)

If doing that was even feasible under the circumstances, I don't think eating the mutilated corpse of a dead evangelion was the most appealing prospect to Asuka at the time. It seems like the kind of thing only the evangelion can do of its own free will like we see in Unit-01's case.

-When the lance hit Eva 02 to start the horrible scene, it hit cuz her AT field turned off cuz she ran out of power (im not sure on this, its concievable the lance is just an AT penetrating thing as seen in its other uses)

If I remember correctly Unit-02's power runs out just after the lance strikes it. Seems the lance can penetrate AT Fields with ease.

So anyways, if her Eva is off, why would she be taking damage when it does?? Like i get how when u pilot an Eva and it looses an arm, u loose an arm. But it was turned off, i dont think such a connection would be on while it was turned off.

That's what I figure. I think it's mostly the pain part though, since we see the evangelions losing limbs in several episodes and yet the pilots remain unharmed, save for the horrible pain of course.

Just how "real" it becomes might depend on how high a given pilots synch ratio is.

[Mr. Tines]

"why didnt Eva 02 just eat one of the vultures to get an S2 engine???"

While this:

The first Eva swings its double-ended blade at me, but I go in under it. Kyoko knows what we're after. Our fist drives through its body, and we pull back, dragging something that quivers like a still beating heart.

I feel it go down like liquid fire, like a slug of schnapps on a winter's day, while my first opponent collapses like a broken puppet.

The fire settles in our belly. I feel pregnant with power. We throw our head back and howl.

would definitely have changed the dynamics of the battle, did Kyoko-sama (or Asuka) know that this was what she would have to do?

Both were out of action when Yui-sama ate Zeruel's S2 from his core; and this sort of information might well have been suppressed. She didn't even seem to have targetted the cores of the harpies as a way of taking them out with higher certainty.

"If her Eva is off, why would she be taking damage when it does??"

As has been noted, Asuka is in high synch - having been woken from her funk by Kyoko-sama, she was probably in a synch level high enough to be in danger of turning into LCL from the get-go.

"so ya in general im just looking for some kind of discussion/justification for the worst ending to one of the best fight I've ever seen."

Within the story, it is likely that Yui-sama needed to have the decks cleared so that she could then hijack the process of Instrumentality - she deliberately waited until after Team Soryu was down before she stirred from her cage.

"plus Shinji is an ass"

That's for sure. He's also the author's SI into the series.

[Defectron]

It would be odd if Asuka did, willingly, just kill one of those things and start eating it.

That's what I'd do if I was in her situation

[Harmless]

ok its agreed then, it would have been nice if she would have sucked it up an eaten one of the dudes... but she might not even have known this could have been done... and if Mr. Tines said is true, than Shinji couldnt have done much about it if Eva 01 didnt wanna move, tho i didnt really get this.

im not sure wut u mean by "hijacking" the process, and why would Eva 01 want to do this?? I would think Eva 01 would be against instrumentality if anything seeing as Shinji rejects it and Shinji is the closest mentality we can see to Eva 01's. Plus i would think Eva 01 would be totally down with some thrashin' with Eva 02.

I have a scene in my head that i think is badass. check it, just how Eva 01 goes beserk the first time, Eva 02 does. (remember Eva 01 went berserk after being stabbed thru the head with light sword thing) The lance stabs Eva 02 in the head, it bends backwards, Asuka passes out or wuteva. Then the eyes turn on REAL bright, the mouth opens up and, and proceeds to breakdance all of the vulture's apart with a series of spin kicks and throw downs. (imagine "You Got Served" if Jason Statham was the main character.) Then Eva 01 would pop up and be like "OOOOO Lez do this" and then Eva 02 and Eva 01 start dropping it like its hawt with a series of using each other to spin into the air and do some crazy windmill kicks. Since the vultures regenerate, this battle lasts for many many minutes, which i am perfectly happy with.

haha, o well.... i like it

[Defectron]

But at that point even if 02 did go beserk that probably wouldnt be enough to save it. The mp evas had a very big advantage in that they could fly. All they would have to do is take off into the air higher then 02 could jumped and shoot it through with all their spears.

[DatDude]

Well Unit two was starting to go beserk when the MP eva's swarmed it. HAd that not happined how knows what would have happined.

As for the ending ingenral you need to make up your own mind about that. This is a good place to get information, and opnions on things.

Just remember no matter what anyone here tells you myself included none of us understand EVA 100%. In fact the only thing im rock solid sure of about this show is Anno's the only one that gets everything.

I like to sit back watch EVA, and not look indepth at every god damn thing. It kind of goes agains the spirit of the show to obsess over every detail that way.

My PM box is open if you'd like my opnions on things. For the other side of coin you can consult Reichu ( over at anime nation most of time these days. ).

Welcome to our diyfunction famly enjoy your stay.

[Archon Divinus]

Just remember no matter what anyone here tells you myself included none of us understand EVA 100%. In fact the only thing im rock solid sure of about this show is Anno's the only one that gets everything.

Actually, I'd bet that not even Anno could tell you what everything in Evas supposed to mean.

[SEELE 08]

The real beauty is not everything is supposed to mean anything in EVA. Anno just used the Christian symbols because they looked and sounded cool. The symbolism just happen to mesh well with the show's premise.

[Mr. Tines]

Shinji couldnt have done much about it if Eva 01 didnt wanna move, tho i didnt really get this.

Well, it's not as if Shinji was doing much more than a Raggedy Andy impersonation (another doll motif? we know about Asuka and Rei and their issues with dolls - but what else does Shinji look like while Misato is dragging him around?) while everything was falling about around him. It's Yui-sama who casually shrugs off the "bakelite" entombing her - so it really looks like it was she who was biding her time, waiting for the appropriate moment to make her move.

im not sure wut u mean by "hijacking" the process, and why would Eva 01 want to do this??

Yui takes her place in the Sephirotic ritual that the harpies are performing - and then, to the surprise of the SEELE council, the Longinus no Yari comes hurtling back into play. That it's her doing is sufficiently obvious that it got added into the description in Bochan Bird's translation of the script (as found at the EvaOtaku site).

Given the inevitability - even as a self-fulfilling prophecy - of Third Impact, it was to her benefit to make sure that things turned out as she wanted, and not just SEELEs complete reboot of life on Earth. Including, of course, the expectation that Shinji would crash and burn the system.

And she might also have another ulterior motive too - well, almost at the very end we get the flash-back to the 2003 conversation with Kozo that was there in episode 21' and this exchange:

Fuyutsuki "Humanity creates Eva in the likeness of a god….That's our true purpose, isn't it?
Yui "Yes. People can only live on this planet but Eva can live forever together with the human soul that dwells within her."

(see also http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36865#36865 for quotes of the script for both sections, which I believe shed light on what she was doing)

I think that had Kyoko still been functioning, she would have been an unwanted source of interference as Yui was running her own Trojan attack on Instrumentality (that's even without any guesses as to whether the two women had any issues left over from their days in human form).

Plus i would think Eva 01 would be totally down with some thrashin' with Eva 02.

The harpies were a bunch of wusses. Team Soryu were enough to take them down (apart from the problem of not making like an Energizer Bunny). It would have been just a chore, otherwise.

I have a scene in my head that i think is badass. check it, just how Eva 01 goes beserk the first time, Eva 02 does. (remember Eva 01 went berserk after being stabbed thru the head with light sword thing)

It is a scene that I've not often seen treated in fics - usually they handle implausible OOC romances, and try to sweep EoTV (episodes 25 and 26) and EoE under the carpet. The chunk I quoted earlier is actually a bit of shameless self-quotation (from here).

[Zuggy]

Would EVA-02 even be capable of ingesting Angelic power? Considering the differences between EVA-01 and 02.

[Space Penis]

Would EVA-02 even be capable of this? Considering the differences between EVA-01 and 02.

Does Nigouki even have a jaw underneath all that armour plating?

[Mr. Tines]

What dfferences? Both are scions of Adam, even though Kyoko had customised hers to have 4 eyes.

The carnage after the uber-bitchfight clearly shows Nigouki's jaws.

[Phoenix Feet]

What dfferences? Both are scions of Adam...

Actually, according to the fact files on the EoE DVD, Unit-01 is a scion of Lillith. That test type footage suggested that as well.

Still, that doesn't mean Unit-02 wouldn't be able to ingest the s2 based on who it's born from. Being born from Lillith didn't stop Unit-01 taking an s2 engine from an angel born of Adam.

[Mr. Tines]

That test type footage suggested that as well.

That is Lilith as surrogate mother, or something more vegetative yet; the Evangelions are explicitly described as scions (Bunshin) of Adam in EoE.

[K2Grey]

First of all, Asuka probably has no clue about the S2. Eva Nigouki may not either. Second, she needed to take out the Eva series in about 3 minutes, and nearly ran out of time (it's not clear whether she could have taken out the last one fast enough if the SoL didn't come down from heaven). Third, going over to one of the MP Evas and chomping on it is not a very intuitive act. Fourth, it may take time to figure out how to use the S2, and that would surely be something for Eva-02 to deal with (and not Asuka). Fifth, she doesn't have time to go and start eating when there are MP Evas around to interrupt her in the middle of the meal. Sixth, the purpose of the scene is to be horrific, not kick ass. Asuka going practically insane and ripping up all the Evas with excessive screaming and uberviolence is not a pleasant sight (or if you take the Reichu interpretation, Eva-02 / Kyoko doing the aforementioned tasks through Asuka), and neither is her death.

As for why Shinji didn't show up, blame Yui for not moving Eva-01's ass sooner. Although if Shinji had showed up at the cage or at the command center, etc., he would have been well in time to get into Eva-01. Even if they managed to time showing up on the battlefield correctly, though, I doubt the fight would be another happy "Shinji and Asuka own hard" scene like against Israfel.

[Sound Only]

That is Lilith as surrogate mother, or something more vegetative yet; the Evangelions are explicitly described as scions (Bunshin) of Adam in EoE.

How did you come to this "surrogate mother" conclusion? Unit-01 is described by SEELE as Lillith's only true offspring in EoE.

[Phoenix Feet]

And who was it who said that all the Eva's were Adam's offspring? Is it possible it was a case of a character getting it wrong again?

Or is it one of those contradicting interpretations?