Anime series or Rebuild?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby TriangulumDelta » Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:54 pm

Should I watch the anime series or the Rebuild films?

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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:02 pm

The rebuilds are not a replacement, as they diverge in significant ways that many agree don't make as much sense without having seen the original. Evangelion is a bit of an unconventional franchise because its alternate versions aren't cut and dry as to their differences or even their intent. Ultimately it's up to you to make up your mind about all of it, and the only way to do that is to see all of it.

Note that even the original series has different routes. There are later versions of episodes 21-24 that include animation enhancements and added scenes. These are considered replacements for the original versions. The original ending, episode 25 and 26, has an alternate version (called 25' and 26' on-screen) in the film End of Evangelion. The nature of how different the two original endings are, or if they happen concurrently, is a somewhat controversial topic.

It's complicated, though, because you can say that 25 and 26 are actually an ending following from the original versions of 21-24, and seeing as the director's cut scenes all benefit further context and set-up for things in End of Evangelion, you could say EoE follows from a route that begins with director's cut 21-24 and segues immediately into EoE.

Sorry if that's confusing. In the end, I'm sure most would agree this is what you should do:

NGE episodes 1-20
NGE director's cut episodes 21-24
NGE episodes 25 & 26 (keeping in mind this ending is redone)
End of Evangelion
Rebuild 1-4

As for some other miscellany:

There's also a recap film which was originally intended to be viewed as part 1 of End of Evangelion, and has been included as such in some versions. It's a bit of a series tradition to have recaps of this style, seen in promotional videos and in the first segments of the final Rebuild film. I'd say this is optional before you view End of Evangelion, depending on your tolerance of recap. Unlike most recaps, it recontextualizes and reiterates things in a snazzily edited stylistic way somewhat reminiscent of certain scenes seen throughout the franchise. It's a very in-character version of a recap, and it might make you view (or review) certain things in a new light.

There's also a short film related to the Rebuilds that contains light spoilers and, if desired, should be viewed after seeing all off them. It's called "Evangelion: 3.0 (-46h)." An omake manga was made as well, "Evangelion 3.0 (-120 min.)" which was later colored and voice-acted in a slideshow manner; it doesn't exactly spoil anything, but it wasn't released until after the last Rebuild film. The former has some further details of things the films don't tackle; the latter is a minor bit of characterization.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:27 am

^

Regarding the extra stuff; I'd recommend doing the Q bonus shorts after Shin (maybe Until You Come To Me between them if you're feeling it, but that's squarely optional) and doing Death and Rebirth after having seen EoE already; doing it before, speaking from my own experience, is going to feel very weird watching what is effectively the same thing twice right after another for the first half, and the temptation to skip ahead in EoE then to get to new content may well lead to missing content (also speaking from experience there...)
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:03 am

View Original PostBlockio wrote:..and doing Death and Rebirth after having seen EoE already; doing it before, speaking from my own experience, is going to feel very weird watching what is effectively the same thing twice right after another for the first half, and the temptation to skip ahead in EoE then to get to new content may well lead to missing content (also speaking from experience there...)

Oop, forgot there's also an element of confusion to do with what Death & Rebirth even is from the outside.

For OP's sake: "Death" is a recap that was intended to be shown as the lead-in to EoE and it was all to be one film, but production delayed. Instead, the recap and roughly the first half of EoE were released as "Death and Rebirth," Rebirth being the section from EoE, acting as a kind of preview of the yet-finished film. It's kind of obsolete now, as later re-releases treated Death as its own film. Netflix for instance only has the first recap segment and is listed as "DEATH (TRUE)²," omitting Rebirth.

It might be interesting to note that the function Death originally served was to flesh out NGE by adding new scenes, largely to the benefit of connecting certain ideas to EoE (back when it was meant to be played right after). The director's cuts largely are a result of putting these scenes back into the series itself, and as a result of doing this, these scenes were then removed from Death, and that's why Death has multiple titles corresponding to shorter and shorter versions: "Death," "Death (True)" and the final version, "Death (True)²."

Complicated stuff. And, in the end, adds to the feeling that it's a largely optional entry, as its original intention has been whittled away. You do get some redone animation of iconic scenes, though.

Tl;dr, if you're going to watch the recap, watch the version titled "DEATH (TRUE)², and then you can segue into EoE.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:41 am

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:NGE episodes 1-20
NGE director's cut episodes 21-24
NGE episodes 25 & 26 (keeping in mind this ending is redone)
End of Evangelion
Rebuild 1-4

My take on this: just watch what's on Netflix. That's probably the best version of the series anyway.
Watch the 26 episodes that are on there, wait a few weeks and then watch EOE (it's very important not to cannibalize the two endings).
If you want more Evangelion go to Amazon and watch NTE (Rebuild). Blu-rays have better video quality, but the streaming version is definitely serviceable.
These films are supplementary material to be honest.
After everything is set and done, you can go after Sadamoto's manga and watch the DEATH (TRUE)² + EOE combo (Revival of Evangelion style).
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:32 pm

I'd agree, as Netflix offers everything in its final/most digestible form. They don't label them as such, but episodes 21-24 are the director's cut versions for instance.

It's worth noting for OP that due to licensing, the end theme (a cover version of Fly Me to the Moon) is edited out from a few scenes and is replaced in the end credits for each episode. On its original broadcast it was the same version of FMTTM each time. For the remaster they did for its second DVD release (which involved some additions to the sound design, and is the final version in terms of alterations), each episode ends with a different version, often playing into the episode's content or theme. The BD releases in Japan retain this, but every international streaming and BD release omit this song, which is (or I guess was) an iconic part of the franchise. I'd at least recommend youtubing it, where every version is catalogued.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:37 pm

I don't think that waiting long between 25/26 and EoE is necessary, even; pretty sure I watched them within two or three days of each other
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:14 pm

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:The rebuilds are not a replacement, as they diverge in significant ways that many agree don't make as much sense without having seen the original. Evangelion is a bit of an unconventional franchise because its alternate versions aren't cut and dry as to their differences or even their intent. Ultimately it's up to you to make up your mind about all of it, and the only way to do that is to see all of it.

I take that's what Anno meant about Evangelion being a puzzle?
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby MsenjaKagami » Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:45 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I don't think that waiting long between 25/26 and EoE is necessary, even; pretty sure I watched them within two or three days of each other


Yeah tbh, it's not like anybody understands EoE the first time through anyways (or 25/26 for that matter) so I wouldn't really say the experience is that compromised or heightened by waiting between the two.

now if we want to talk self-imposed watching delays we should be telling people, we should tell people to wait 8 years between watching 3.0 and Shin to really get the full experience
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:51 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I don't think that waiting long between 25/26 and EoE is necessary, even; pretty sure I watched them within two or three days of each other

I wouldn't say it's necessary, but it greatly improved my experience with both endings, as they both address the same core theme of life being worth living, but from different angles and both are valid.
Also, EOE feels like it’s own thing while also being an ending to Evangelion to be honest. It stands on its own, while 25/26 are more closely linked to the rest of the series.
Waiting a bit enabled me to digest both endings separately and enjoy them that much more. But that’s just how I feel about it.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby evagunpla » Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:16 pm

Why not both?

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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby nerv bae » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:20 am

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:It's worth noting for OP that due to licensing, the end theme (a cover version of Fly Me to the Moon) is edited out from a few scenes and is replaced in the end credits for each episode. On its original broadcast it was the same version of FMTTM each time. For the remaster they did for its second DVD release (which involved some additions to the sound design, and is the final version in terms of alterations), each episode ends with a different version, often playing into the episode's content or theme. The BD releases in Japan retain this, but every international streaming and BD release omit this song, which is (or I guess was) an iconic part of the franchise. I'd at least recommend youtubing it, where every version is catalogued.

Huh, I had no idea that the remaster ended each episode with a different version of FMTTM, or that FMTTM was used in a few scenes prior to the endings. Which scenes was FMTTM removed from? (I don't see the answer from skimming this page.)

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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:32 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Huh, I had no idea that the remaster ended each episode with a different version of FMTTM, or that FMTTM was used in a few scenes prior to the endings. Which scenes was FMTTM removed from? (I don't see the answer from skimming this page.)

Thanks for linking that, it's an excellent resource and I should've linked it. I see I was a bit incorrect when I said the original broadcast version only had one rendition.

The episodes that play FMTTM (an instrumental version) within scenes are 15, 17 and 21. 15 is when Kaji and Misato are walking home from the wedding at night and have a drunk and loaded interaction. 17 is during Misato and Kaji discussing Marduk, among other espionage, by the NERV vending machines--and then Kaji teasingly hits on Shinji, cuing the "I'm not a girl" line. 21 is when Misato receives the voicemail from Kaji and sobs at the table.

15 and 21 are removed in the Netflix/GKids versions and replaced with cicadas and silence, respectively. 17's is still there, and is likely an oversight because it's extremely faint and almost seems like cafeteria muzak unless you really, really listen close to the familiar melody at the very end of the scene.

As an aside, I realized while composing this post that it's only used within series for scenes between Misato & Kaji. Never really put two and two together. In that way it serves as a leitmotif for their romance, playing at key moments of their development and to cap off the conclusion.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby nerv bae » Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:59 am

I've only ever watched the Netflix version of the series and so I've never heard FMTTM in 15 and 21, and I was oblivious to the song's presence in 17. I never understood why fans were so upset about the song's removal because of licensing issues, but now that I know it was originally in a critical scene in 21, I get it. Wow!

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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:16 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:I never understood why fans were so upset about the song's removal because of licensing issues, but now that I know it was originally in a critical scene in 21, I get it. Wow!

I'd argue it's critical in 15 too, as it's actually the scene my mind jumps to when I think of FMTTM. Perhaps it's because it's a scene between two characters and so the song is doing some heavy lifting to impart it with its sad romance, and that 21's use is sort of like a callback, and works because we feel the absence of the person who was previously alongside Misato during that song.
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Re: Anime series or Rebuild?

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Postby Blockio » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:38 am

The removal is definitely a loss to the show, but the response to it was, quite frankly, way out of proportion; a lot of it struck me personally as people looking for something to be angry about and proclaim the dub they grew up with objectively superior, rather than actual reasoning
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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