Assuming this is the actual Asuka and not just some part of Shinji's mind, why does she reject him? As in, his romance?
Is it because she assumed he had rejected her before (not holding her while kissing, not figuring out her stupid Wall of Jericho reference death threat) and was basically rejecting him back, to "get back" at him?
Being spiteful is a normal human thing to do, and she seems to reconcile with him at the end anyway (caressing his cheek), but I was curious about your opinions.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Is there a specific scene where Asuka rejects Shinji romantically that I'm forgetting, or are you talking about just in general?

DTGee wrote:I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Is there a specific scene where Asuka rejects Shinji romantically that I'm forgetting, or are you talking about just in general?

The kitchen scene in EOE where she tells him "pathetic" and then Shinji flips the table.

She called him pathetic because he was being pathetic in that moment. The scene didn't really have anything to do with their romantic feelings towards each other.

Asunji_Yuko wrote:The kitchen scene in EOE where she tells him "pathetic" and then Shinji flips the table.

I've seen fan theories connecting this scene with one that was inserted into episode 24's director's cut right at the beginning of the episode. It's a brief flashback that segues into runaway Asuka in the bathtub, and it shows her in the kitchen, a prominent and weirdly tense shot of the unused kitchen table, a full coffee pot, an argument and tense sounds--but then there's an odd jump in chronology, and it shows a spilled coffee pot and spilled coffee. The theory is that the EoE scene is actually a flashback to some degree, and that some unseen violence took place which led to the coffee pot being on the floor--or that it's more connected than it initially seems to the context of 24's spilled coffee (in that scene, Asuka is learning from Shinji that Kaji is dead). There's many ways to read into it, but I personally think the implication is that in reality there was violence against Shinji on Asuka's part, and Instrumentality allows Shinji to lash out at her and sort of 'correct' the event in a wish-fulfillment way. He feels as if he should have struck back. But it remains ambiguous how Instrumentality works, anyway, and if it's actual interaction between consciousnesses in that moment or merely a projection on Shinji's part.

My interpretation of that scene is that it's the manifestation of Shinji's feelings of rejection and disconnect from the entire world, using and inverting the kiss scene from episode 15 as the visual metaphor for said feelings. The EOE scene has the same characters (including Pen pen), same setting, same clothes, etc as episode 15, but flips a few key things. Asuka takes Shinji's breath away in 15 by pinching his nose, Shinji takes Asuka's breath away in EOE by strangling her. I don't have copies of the episodes/movies handy so my memory is a bit spotty right now, but watch them side by side and you'll see what I'm getting at.

logged_in wrote:My interpretation of that scene is that it's the manifestation of Shinji's feelings of rejection and disconnect from the entire world, using and inverting the kiss scene from episode 15 as the visual metaphor for said feelings. The EOE scene has the same characters (including Pen pen), same setting, same clothes, etc as episode 15, but flips a few key things. Asuka takes Shinji's breath away in 15 by pinching his nose, Shinji takes Asuka's breath away in EOE by strangling her. I don't have copies of the episodes/movies handy so my memory is a bit spotty right now, but watch them side by side and you'll see what I'm getting at.

That's a great observation. Never noticed that...so you think it's not the real Asuka but rather something from Shinji's imagination? Or it really is Asuka, and she was written to act that way because 1) It's the opposite of the kiss scene from ep 15, and 2) She's being spiteful to Shinji out of her own pain from feeling rejected by him?

Asunji_Yuko wrote:
The kitchen scene in EOE where she tells him "pathetic" and then Shinji flips the table.

Because she does think he's pathetic, simple as that.
That's been consistent pretty much from the moment she met him, she never shuts up about how she thinks he's an idiot and a wimp.

He hasn't splattered himself with glory there either, as she points out he's only coming to her because everyone else is dead or has grown estranged from him. Not only is he mostly after someone to cling to & get help from, she's literally his dead last choice for that - which would be insulting to anyone, and Asuka is a very proud person, too.
So predictably she isn't having it.

Also, because the plot requires her to. That whole scene is about how Shinji is frustrated with the difficulties of interacting with other people and can't handle rejection.
It's "Exhibit A". He feels rejected by Asuka specifically, but this is also a stand-in for his feelings towards people & the world in general.He's afraid of being disliked by people, and Asuka dislikes him a lot.But at the same time they're both desperate, horny & lonely so they look at each other as convenient sources of validation, attention, company & sexual gratification.
(which isn't to say that there was never any genuine attachment between them but at this point it's gone under the wheels of their respective complexes)
That causes him to feel dependent on her approval, but he can't compell her. Sometimes ppl tell you no & you have to cope.
But he feels rejected & he can't handle it, so he throws a tantrum - that's why he triggers 3rd Impact, symbolically "erasing" the "other" - the moment he strangles her in the vision is when he actually makes that decision.


I would say that Asuka, Misato and Ritsuko are actually present in that sequence. Note that it's only ppl who are dead by this point, and that when some of them died it was accompanied by a brief apparition of Rei. Their souls had already been "collected" in preparation for instrumentality, and they're reacting to things that they did not previously know about each other - Shinji sees a memory of Misato screwing Kaji, and how Asuka's dislike of him is grounded in the parts she rejects in herself ("you hate me cause im just like you"), Misato reacts to the kids kissing while she was away, Asuka reacts to Shinji's "jerk off fantasies" of her, and so on. This is their actual selves - if it was just Shinji's imagination he couldn't know their secret thoughts or see their memories.

DTGee wrote:She called him pathetic because he was being pathetic in that moment. The scene didn't really have anything to do with their romantic feelings towards each other.

Shinji tells her he wants to be with her forever before things escalate.

Kendrix wrote:Because she does think he's pathetic, simple as that.
That's been consistent pretty much from the moment she met him, she never shuts up about how she thinks he's an idiot and a wimp.

To be fair, she seems to at least respect his piloting skills throughout the story. So much so that she feels personally threatened by him at various points in the narrative (going all the way back to episode 8 when Kaji tells her about his accomplishments). The same goes for his cello skills. She genuinely praised him in episode 15. She is also seemed to be very grateful for him after he saved her life in episode 10 and happy with their mutual success in the previous episode. Asuka really likes Shinji and I think he likes her too (and this goes beyond romance or sexual desires). It's just that none of them (especially Asuka) know how to react to feelings of friendship, family, and love in general. And, yes, this creates a very problematic relationship (like most of the ones we see in EVA).
Personally, I think she was saying he was being pathetic at that moment, which he was (for the entire first half of that movie, to be honest). Throwing the weight of his life onto a sick, hospitalized girl (particularly after everything that's happened) is something even Misato calls him out on being ridiculous at best.
I agree that she represents rejection for him and that's why their relationship is so important to the movie as a whole and this scene in particular. While EoTV is more introspective, EOE is definitely more about human relationships and conflict...

kuribo-04 wrote:

DTGee#940702 wrote:She called him pathetic because he was being pathetic in that moment. The scene didn't really have anything to do with their romantic feelings towards each other.

Shinji tells her he wants to be with her forever before things escalate.

Yeah I think Shinji was in a moment of desperation in that moment. It is definitely I moment when he realizes things are going to shit but he wants to reach out someone at the end. It is not realistically possible at that moment to confess your feelings to someone during Armageddon and Asuka calls him out on it.