I thougth that it's possible that Lilith is the origin of the unit 01, and that it's not important that it's so similar to Adam. It's also possible that it's a mix of Adam and Lilith, but we can't forget the seele's words about the relationship betweeen the eva 01 and Lilith.

4) At a minimum, Unit 02 is a genetic mate of Adam's, since Kaworu can control her in ep. 24

I don't agree about this, Kaworu can control EVA-02 cause she close her soul, and it's not the Adam's origin the point, at least for me.

ou may see, here, the source of much of our disagreement. I don't think Lilieth ever looked like Adam.

Well, I do think this looks so much like Lilith that they can even be confused (confusion I've seen on other forums). Of course that Adam with pylons in 2I looks different, but I'm talking about original Adam.

You mean other than the fact that Adam, when in "giant-of-light" form looks exactly like an Evangelion?

But Adam original (Adam as first discovered) doesn't look much like that, and looks a lot more like Lilith!

This part has been explained to you before, but you choose not to accept the logic of it.

I don't know exactly what explanation you're talking about. What I mean, and I think is logical enough unless there's an argument which proves it false is: Kaworu calls Eva-02 Adam's bunshin (trying not to get much into the asceptions of the term now), SEELE calls Eva-01 Lilith's bunshin. What I infer from this is that the relation between Eva-02 and Adam must be the same as Eva-01 and Lilith. Just that.

The liner notes are not reliable, as they are by ADV.

Again, I'm not referring to the ADV liner notes, but the original Japanese DVD liner notes. I think I put them on the other thread, I'll put em again, from an MDWigs on Animeboards I think:

From the Genesis 0:12 liner notes, in the "Eva Tomo no Kai" section (Translation by Bochan_Bird).



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"[...] Sono naki ni yokotawatta nitai no kyojin no eizô ga aru. Kore wa Yui ga shôshitsu shiteshimatta jikken o shita dankai de, Lilith to Eva Shogôki dearu rashii. Tomo ni kahanshin ga hotondo nai jôtai deari, ketsuraku shita kahanshin dôshi ga tsunagatteiru yô da. Lilith to Shogôki ga tsunagatta jôtai de Yui wa, Lilith ni sesshoku shi torikomareteshimatta no darô."

"[...] Among these are an image of two giants lying stretched out. These apparently are Lilith and Eva-01 at the stage of the experiment where Yui disappeared. Both are in the condition with most of their lower bodies missing, and the missing lower torsos appear to be joined. Yui probably performed contact in the condition with Lilith and Eva-01 joined, and was taken/absorbed into [the Eva]."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Of course it uses the words "seems/appears" and "probably", but then that is standard fare for this type of Eva document.

@bp32.

Good sysnthesis of the issue. The only thing I'm not sure is the Eva 01 being "birthed" from Lilith. Don't know exactly what you mean. I read theories about Lilith giving delivery (as in humans, more or less) to Eva-01. But I'm not so sure about that. Not only the (original Japanese DVD) liner notes that say they were "joined" by the waist (whatever that means), but also the lack of Lilith legs and the deformation of Lilith's extremities after 2004 (at least), I believe it was more like Eva-01 was "grown" using Lilith. It's all subject to discussion though.

Hyper Shinchan wrote:I thougth that it's possible that Lilith is the origin of the unit 01, and that it's not important that it's so similar to Adam. It's also possible that it's a mix of Adam and Lilith, but we can't forget the seele's words about the relationship betweeen the eva 01 and Lilith.

I am not sure what your point is--it sounds like what I laid out above, that there are numerous possibilities regarding the relationship between Adam-Lilith-Unit 01

Hyper Shinchan wrote:

bp32 wrote:4) At a minimum, Unit 02 is a genetic mate of Adam's, since Kaworu can control her in ep. 24

I don't agree about this, Kaworu can control EVA-02 cause she close her soul, and it's not the Adam's origin the point, at least for me.

Yeah, this is a much fuzzier theory, not sure why I articulated it more like fact. The immediate reason why Kaworu can control 02 is because its resident soul has withdrawn herself, but there has been speculation by many that it is Kaworu's genetic link to Adam that allows him to have any kind of power at all over an Eva--but certainly this is nothing more than speculation....

AchtungAffen wrote:@bp32.

Good sysnthesis of the issue. The only thing I'm not sure is the Eva 01 being "birthed" from Lilith. Don't know exactly what you mean. I read theories about Lilith giving delivery (as in humans, more or less) to Eva-01. But I'm not so sure about that. Not only the (original Japanese DVD) liner notes that say they were "joined" by the waist (whatever that means), but also the lack of Lilith legs and the deformation of Lilith's extremities after 2004 (at least), I believe it was more like Eva-01 was "grown" using Lilith. It's all subject to discussion though.

Thanks AA. Yes, the exact nature of Unit 01's birthing is a bit fuzzy--the one thing we know for sure is that there was a biomass transfer, hence the atrophy of Lilith's extremities. Now, the question is whether the transfer took place by a connection of the legs or of Unit 01's body being connected to Lilith's vaginal area (yeah, I said it--:)). In the latter case it is more of a birthing, but in both cases there was certainly a biomass transfer to create Unit 01. Reichu is the one who should summarize the latter birthing argument, since I believe it is her theory and I will just end up butchering it...

Oh, and I forgot to comment on this earlier:

Timesplitter 01 wrote:What Hexon says is true.

Also I think it is the Seven Eye theory.

In total EVA units 00,01,02 have 7 eyes.

The 7 eyes of GOD. I Also think that lilith has 7 eyes.

If you search the forum, we discussed this theory previously.

Wait, I don't get it--first of all there were at least 4 Eva's that we got to see. The unit which became the 13th Angel (me thinks my numbering is correct) had two eyes so that would make a total of nine. Also, Lilith does not have seven eyes, but the mask she is wearing has seven eyes painted on to it. More than likely the difference in eyes has more to do with random mutations that resulted from the genetic manipulaton required to make the Evas. I haven't seen anything in the series to make me believe otherwise...

Timesplitter 01 wrote:What Hexon says is true.

Also I think it is the Seven Eye theory.

In total EVA units 00,01,02 have 7 eyes.

The 7 eyes of GOD. I Also think that lilith has 7 eyes.

If you search the forum, we discussed this theory previously.

lilith didnt have any eyes untill Rei went into her, the Seele mask had 7 eyes though.