Who "wins" in EoE?

[Sailor Star Dust]

Ok, thanks.

"EvaGeeks", right, right. Can't forget that since the phrase "Wiki" causes me to cringe, myself.

[Hailtheplatypus]

The floor in my room, god knows what kind of tasty food ended up on it when I first watched the movie and flipped out of my chair in shock...

[The Imperialist]

As it like in Wagner's Gotterdammerung, everybody loses. HOWEVER, if you think about it, it might actually be a good ending for everyone, as everybody is together again, as a hyper-being. Also, death brings about the possibility of resurrection. Like in Wagner, everybody dies, but it is still a good ending (eg. Tristan und Isolde: Tristan and Isolde both die together at death, therefore signifying eternal love). Probably the same thing here.

Check my On Wagner thread if you want to know why I included Wagner into my arguement.

[TriLink]

HOWEVER, if you think about it, it might actually be a good ending for everyone, as everybody is together again, as a hyper-being.

Not quite.

Complementation failed, so even though most humans are still in the sea of LCL, they really can't interact with each other in any significant way. They'd just be floating around for an eternity without contact from any other humans. Or at least that's my understanding of it.

*Waits to be corrected*

[CitizenGeek]

HOWEVER, if you think about it, it might actually be a good ending for everyone, as everybody is together again, as a hyper-being.

Not quite.

Complementation failed, so even though most humans are still in the sea of LCL, they really can't interact with each other in any significant way. They'd just be floating around for an eternity without contact from any other humans. Or at least that's my understanding of it.

*Waits to be corrected*

What's complementation? I think you're talking about Instrumentality .... ?

[Anonymous_Evafan]

What's complementation? I think you're talking about Instrumentality .... ?

Same thing.

[CitizenGeek]

SEELE aren't very typical villains at all. I remember talking to someone who actually thought that SEELE were the good guys in Evangelion, because they wanted to end human suffering and all that. Crazy.

What's complementation? I think you're talking about Instrumentality .... ?

Same thing.

Then why call it complementation? Let me guess - it's teh Japanese version of that word and therefore superior? :roll:

[Sailor Star Dust]

Let me guess - it's teh Japanese version of that word and therefore superior? :roll:

Wrong on both counts. Instrumentality being the Japanese word and it being "therefore superior" as you put it.

Human Instrumentality Project. The actual Japanese term is Jinrui Hokan Keikaku, which means something like “Human Complementation Project”. However, Anno decided to confuse everybody and use this opportunity to sneak in another gratuitous sci-fi reference [will elaborate more later], so the official English rendition of J.H.K. is “Human Instrumentality Project”, even though “complementation” and “instrumentality” mean completely different things. Oh, well.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

There was a relavent Reichu quip in the episode 24' plothole thread but I can't find the damn thing ATM.

[Shin-seiki]

Complementation and Instrumentality are the same word in Japanese (complementation being closer to the word's actual meaning). "Instrumentality" is a reference to a science fiction title, "The Instrumentality of Man".

Note this entry from the RCB:
[Instrumentality Project/Human Complementation Project
(HCP) (JINRUI HOKAN KEIKAKU)]

Use whichever one sounds best in the particular context in which you wish to use it.

[NhouzXM]

just finished watchin EoE for the first time. wow...what a depressing movie (hopeful in the end, but depressing)

i think no one "won". but they didnt "lose" either since they can all come back. Shinji and Asuka are the only 2 i dont know about, they have a chance to start "Fresh" but meh, who knows, maybe as soon as the scene ended Shinji snapped her neck (doubtful). but this is only after my first time watching EoE so im sure my opinion will change after a 2nd or 3rd time, but that was such a well...draining...movie to watch i dont think that 2nd time will be coming soon.

[CitizenGeek]

just finished watchin EoE for the first time. wow...what a depressing movie (hopeful in the end, but depressing)

i think no one "won". but they didnt "lose" either since they can all come back. Shinji and Asuka are the only 2 i dont know about, they have a chance to start "Fresh" but meh, who knows, maybe as soon as the scene ended Shinji snapped her neck (doubtful). but this is only after my first time watching EoE so im sure my opinion will change after a 2nd or 3rd time, but that was such a well...draining...movie to watch i dont think that 2nd time will be coming soon.

Haha, I have to agree with you. It is quite a depressing movie. I remember I felt weirdly sad everytime I remembered the movie, and especially the song 'Komm, Susser Tod' in the 3 or 4 days that followed my first viewing. However, the effect has since dulled and now I think watching EoE wouldn't throw me into a state of temporary depression!

[DatDude]

Umm if Shinji decided to take a chance at having a life and I can only guess that Asuka showing up on the beech next to him means the same. How is this losing?

Sheesh this shows got lots of ambiguity in it but damn people . . .

[BrikHaus]

SEELE aren't very typical villains at all.

I always thought they really seemed like stereotypical villains. They are completely one-dimensional. All we know about them is that they want to end all life on the planet. It doesn't get more generic than that.

[chee]

No, they aren't typical because Kihl never cackles. Ever. Nor does he stare out at a cityscape from his gigantic office on the top floor. He just stares into space while holding his usual "ARRGH GODDAMMIT WHAT DO I PAY YOU PEOPLE FOR" pose.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Umm if Shinji decided to take a chance at having a life and I can only guess that Asuka showing up on the beech next to him means the same. How is this losing?

Sheesh this shows got lots of ambiguity in it but damn people . . .

If anyone won it was Yui since she fucked up SEELE's plans like she wanted to. Shinji and Asuka have shown little sighs of actually learning from what happened. They both ended up repeating their previous mistakes though for Shinji this is understandable. This is to be expected as humanity has a long, sad tradition of doing this.

SEELE aren't very typical villains at all.

I always thought they really seemed like stereotypical villains. They are completely one-dimensional. All we know about them is that they want to end all life on the planet. It doesn't get more generic than that.

They aren't completely one-dimensional, though external info is needed to see this. They're smug religious zealots that want to be gods and think they know what's best for the world

[DatDude]

The endless waltz . . . . .

If anyone won it was Yui since she fucked up SEELE's plans like she wanted to. Shinji and Asuka have shown little sighs of actually learning from what happened. They both ended up repeating their previous mistakes though for Shinji this is understandable. This is to be expected as humanity has a long, sad tradition of doing this.

Oh I'm sorry! I though Shinji was the protagonist !

Me and my tiny brain get confused some times. . . .

[Ornette]

The endless waltz . . . . .

If anyone won it was Yui since she fucked up SEELE's plans like she wanted to. Shinji and Asuka have shown little sighs of actually learning from what happened. They both ended up repeating their previous mistakes though for Shinji this is understandable. This is to be expected as humanity has a long, sad tradition of doing this.

Oh I'm sorry! I though Shinji was the protagonist !

Me and my tiny brain get confused some times. . . .

So I'm a little confused here, what does this discussion have to do with who's the protagonist of the story?

[DatDude]

AeF in responce to me pointing out Shinji won by rejecting instrumentality suggested if anyone one it was yui. I countered by reminding him the shows focus is on Shinji.

Sheesh it like saying 0b1 kenobi or Yoda won starwars because they trained luke.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I always thought they really seemed like stereotypical villains. They are completely one-dimensional. All we know about them is that they want to end all life on the planet. It doesn't get more generic than that.

Agreed. I pretty much see SEELE as being One-dimensional Villains in the sense that they want all life to end because of their Batshit Insane Cult/Religion, and that's all we know.

So I'm a little confused here, what does this discussion have to do with who's the protagonist of the story?

Um...Because of who "wins"....in the...end? *blinks* I dunno. *shrugs*