Was Kaji part of 3I Instrumentality?

[gorgeousshutin]

I remembered a scene in EoE where Misato seemed to be having sex with him while showing off to Shinji . . . does this mean that Kaji, along with people who have died some time before the 3rd Impact began, could all be a part of Instrumentality? I need this info to complete chapt 2 of World End's Messiah, so much thanks in advance to whomever who can answer this question :)

[thewayneiac]

Yes, Ep. 26 clearly shows Kaji in Instrumentality, talking about rainy days, in the congratulations scene, ect. He was included. Also, in the manga his old gang appears to him when he dies, in the same way that Misato, Ritsuko, and Yui appear to characters in EoE.

[gorgeousshutin]

Yes, Ep. 26 clearly shows Kaji in Instrumentality, talking about rainy days, in the congratulations scene, ect. He was included. Also, in the manga his old gang appears to him when he dies, in the same way that Misato, Ritsuko, and Yui appear to characters in EoE.

So . . . then even those who died way before Instrumentality started are shown to be included in Instrumentality. Thanks a lot for the reply, thewayneiac!

[Kendrix]

There is probably a time limit, it would be just plain silly if *everyone* came back from the dead, but how much time passed between ep 21 and End, really?


He is very obviously in the EoTV-Instrumentality, we even see him in the congratulations scene, implying that he emerged, but no sign of him in EoE other than what's probably just Misato's memories of him.

[gorgeousshutin]

There is probably a time limit,

That's true though . . . are there anyone who'd been dead for years showing up in either TV's or EoE's versions of Instrumentality (And I do not mean Yui, Kimiko, Risuko-mom, whose souls are trapped/preserved in Eva)? Like, I don't think Misato's dad ever showed up again in Instrumentality . . .

Either way, thanks for the input, Kendrix!

[Mr. Tines]

Yui, Kimiko, Risuko-mom!

Yui, Kyoko, and, Lilith/Rei; Naoko remains as only a set of partial uploads into the Magi.

[gorgeousshutin]

Yui, Kyoko, and, Lilith/Rei; Naoko remains as only a set of partial uploads into the Magi.

Oh . . . I see. So Eva Unit 00 is unstable in the early eps because Naoko's soul input is unsuccessful, huh? Thanks, Tines!

[Mr. Tines]

because Naoko's soul input is unsuccessful

Related reading

Lots of discussion about this:

Old ANF thread: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/3785/Unit-00s-soul/
Old thread from around here: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/70/EVA-00s-Soul/
And some others:
forum.evageeks.org/thread/488/Whose-soul-is-inside-of-Eva-Unit-00/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/1179/In-response-to-Whose-soul-is-in-Unit-00/

But if you don't want to wade through all the lengthy discussion, there's some summaries here: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Eva-00%27s_Soul

[CJD]

Rather than a time limit I'm more inclined to believe time travel is more of a special case based on the characters, Shinji's at the least, whims. Shinji would want Kaji to live, so Rei/Lilith uses her god powers to please him.

[gorgeousshutin]

Related reading

Much thanks, Tines!

And CJD's speculation might have some legs too, since Rei/Lilith is alluded to having time-control ability (that with her appearing as an apparition in ep 1).

[Der Kommissar]

It's quite possible we never see Misato's dad or, say, George Washington because they're not at all relevant to the narrative at hand, which centers around Shinji's own existential crisis.

If there's a time limit whereafter the soul loses its sense of self, we're not told about it in EoE or the TV series.

[Viking]

One of the various analysis I found on the net clearly states that everyone who died after Ramiel's death can be part of the union of al the souls ( tantai ), because Ramiel himself is responsible of sealing the souls of people dying.
That, in short, is what is written here.

Bye

[chaosakita]

Rather than a time limit I'm more inclined to believe time travel is more of a special case based on the characters, Shinji's at the least, whims. Shinji would want Kaji to live, so Rei/Lilith uses her god powers to please him.

Isn't there talk about how Instrumentality defies time and space? If so, time travel would definitely make sense.

[CJD]

Yep, that's what I'm basing my thought on. Admittedly the theory was first posed by someone else (here presumably) where they hypothesized Rei specifically went back for people shown in the smiling crowd shot when Shinji realizes instrumentality sucks. They also pointed out that Gendo wasn't in it, so take that for what you will.

[NemZ]

I remembered a scene in EoE where Misato seemed to be having sex with him while showing off to Shinji . . . does this mean that Kaji, along with people who have died some time before the 3rd Impact began, could all be a part of Instrumentality?

Depends on which 3I you mean. His only presence in EoE's version is in the form of a memory Misato projects. There's no indication that Kaji's soul is involved at any point.

As thewayniac noted, this is quite different from his active involvement in 3I in both the series ending and in the manga version.

[Bagheera]

Rather than a time limit I'm more inclined to believe time travel is more of a special case based on the characters, Shinji's at the least, whims. Shinji would want Kaji to live, so Rei/Lilith uses her god powers to please him.

There is no time travel. Rei/Lilith was collecting souls all along, and they came back during 3I. That's it. The boundaries are probably marked by Shinji's visions of Rei in ep 1 and EoEoE.

Seriously, why are people do damn eager to invoke time travel at the drop of a hat? We have literally no canonical examples of it ever being used at any point in the history of the franchise! It's just gutter fanwanking at its worst.

[AuraTwilight]

It's appropriate to invoke because quantum particles have their own temporal mechanics, Lilith is kind of indisposed for most of NGE, and Shinji has experiences of talking to a Rei that knows more than the Rei he knows personally.

[Lurkis]

There is no time travel. Rei/Lilith was collecting souls all along, and they came back during 3I. That's it.

And how would Rei/Lilith be doing this throughout the series?

The way I see it, souls have a 'Lifespan' so to speak once the body they are possessing dies. We know the souls are still around for sometime after a person dies (Rei 1 dies and soul is taken, Rei 2 etc). Just saying, do you think a soul would have a 'lifespan' before it dissipates outside of a body.

Or a more whacky idea, Ritsu/Gendo/ or some other higher up, pulled the strings to store his soul after his death. (room mate asked about this, personally not a fan of the idea, but 'ey)

[Bagheera]

And how would Rei/Lilith be doing this throughout the series?

The same way she's doing it during EoE: she's been watching over the world since forever, and doing whatever she does with souls all the while. There's no need to invoke time travel when she's been here since the birth of life on Earth.

The way I see it, souls have a 'Lifespan' so to speak once the body they are possessing dies. We know the souls are still around for sometime after a person dies (Rei 1 dies and soul is taken, Rei 2 etc). Just saying, do you think a soul would have a 'lifespan' before it dissipates outside of a body.

It's probably not relevant most of the time; it just dissipates or gets absorbed/consumed by whatever breaks down the body. We know the number isn't fixed, for example, since populations grown and decline all the time.

[thewayneiac]

The same way she's doing it during EoE: she's been watching over the world since forever, and doing whatever she does with souls all the while. There's no need to invoke time travel when she's been here since the birth of life on Earth.

But Lilith wouldn't look like Rei until after Rei returned to her. Any Rei/Lilith that appears before EoE must be time traveling from after Lilith incorporated Rei's experiences of being Rei.