Our adoration of Evangelion - More emotional than academic?

[DevRei17]

I assume most Evangelion fans came to love the show for the strong emotional ties it brings. However, I would assume most fans come to forums like Eva Geeks because you found more to the series than just "Well that was a nice waste of 24 minutes!"

My point is I can more or less assume most Eva fans appreciate the show on both an academic and emotional level... Not everyone believes this though.
I turn your attention to a post I found on Anime News Network that's, while intelligently thought out, is ultimately not fair.

I've noticed that I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about Neon Genesis Evangelion as a lot of people. If I'm honest, all of the prolonged raving about it irritated me. It's not really tied to my opinion of the series, which was formed somewhat hastily almost a decade ago, but something in the social status of it. I can theoretically empathize with Shinji, moreso now after some deeply unpleasant times when I was in college, but I don't think that I want to. I remember feeling something deeply adolescent in the series that I desperately didn't want to indulge in. Then again, I was still adolescent when I saw it, so maybe I was trying too hard to be growed up.

By contrast, I can relate to the enthusiasm for Patlabor 2 and Revolutionary Girl Utena. Perhaps because they're less oppressively pervasive, there's no men in plastic masks associated with them, for example, and perhaps because the praise for them tends to be a little more subdued, less viscerally emotional and slightly more cerebral. There are, of course, plenty of elaborate analyses of Neon Genesis Evangelion, but opinions about that series feel to me as though they come from an emotional place, no matter how well dressed in intellect they are. Something about that bothers me. By contrast, I tend to see appreciation of Patlabor 2 and Revolutionary Girl Utena as coming either from a more intellectual place or at least with the two closer matched.

I get what he's saying at the very least. Evangelion fans, probably more than any other fanbase has been know let their emotional ties take over. However to say that all the intelligent discussions that's been said about the show (espically on here) is just "from an emotional place" is frankly B.S.

[Reichu]

"Emotion" refers to so many things that are intrinsic to our state of being that severing it from "intellect" is a horribly flawed conceit. Is this poster one of those people who claims to be all about intellect, logic, and reason but is really just a loose cannon of cognitive biases, logical fallacies, and (!!) emotional turbulence?

[Mr. Tines]

I think that for the people for whom NGE is a big deal, it is entirely the emotional connection that does that. Yes, there is a level of puzzle solving and trying to pull the various disparate bits of background into a coherent whole, but that's really the bonus feature.

It also speaks to the level of disconnect that someone would even mentjon Oshii's rather sterile and cerebral Patlabor 2 in the same context. A metric I have for fiction is "Who are these people and why should I care about them?" and Anno does that where Oshii doesn't (and Ikuhara is being too crazy to do to more than a sufficient level).

[Azathoth]

Nobody likes anything for any reasons other than "emotions". In this context, "intellect" is a term for the circlejerking of those who need academic jargon to justify this fact. Fair enough. As modes of communication go, big words and insincere bullshit sure beat sitting around grunting and throwing rocks.

However, that isn't what the guy quoted in OP is saying; what he's saying is that it's lolpopular and he can't like it because it would associate him with the multitudes, who are innately nasty. Which is a related attitude, but I wouldn't say the same thing.

[gatotsu911]

Speaking personally, I always select my viewing in Japanese cartoons strictly on the basis of scholarly merit, as I appreciate them on a purely conceptual level and make absolutely sure that I am never entertained.

[Fireball]

The first paragraph sounds like he is basically admitting that he is running away from it because of the emotions it might invoke. So Shinji...

If he had mentioned Patlabor in context of the OVAs or TV series sure okay. I mean, I wouldn't put Division 2 on the same tier of empathy as the Children, but goddamn Noa is adorable.



anyway

ANN

[chee]

Claiming Anno is a better director than Oshii or Ikuhara

And Mr. SurrenderArtist's point was immediately proven.

I don't mean to hate on Anno, but I'll be frank - all three directors have their pet themes and imagery, but I find that someone like Ikuhara, or Oshii has a greater variety of interesting things to say about them. Also, I often get a sense of cognitive dissonance in Anno- "Here, lets make a statement on otaku attitudes towards gender and fantasy, NOW HAVE A SWEET, TOTALLY UNIRONIC LOOK AT THIS LUSCIOUS STRIPED Asuka ASS."

[Der Kommissar]

4chan-ish image macro-ishing removed

Anyway, as to the quote in the OP itself - I'm not sure the point he's trying to make. Media and art try to appeal to emotions. Whether a given piece attempts to hook you more by intellectual consideration or emotional involvement isn't a particularly useful or objective measure of quality.

[Azathoth]

Also, I often get a sense of cognitive dissonance in Anno- "Here, lets make a statement on otaku attitudes towards gender and fantasy, NOW HAVE A SWEET, TOTALLY UNIRONIC LOOK AT THIS LUSCIOUS STRIPED Asuka ASS."

Yes, Kunihiko Ikuhara's work is clearly void of all cognitive dissonance. At the risk of starting an actual argument here, aren't contradictions in a person's thought far more fun to see than the parts they think are perfectly consistent?

[chee]

1. Yeah, but Anno's way of doing it feels much more blatantly adolescent, even for a show obstensibly aimed at exactly that demographic.

2. Depends on my mood.

[Alaska Slim]

I get what he's saying at the very least. Evangelion fans, probably more than any other fanbase has been know let their emotional ties take over.

I object! On the grounds that responses like V's are outliers, and the Narutards are clearly the more obsessed.

And Mr. SurrenderArtist's point was immediately proven.

I don't mean to hate on Anno,

No, but you did hate on Professor Tines without having even the decency to refer to him by name. Have at thee, dethpicable rouge!

And I'd say: Emotional attachment is necessary, Evangelion is not a truly objective work, nor claims to be. Forming an emotional bond with the characters is the difference between in some way appreciating the work and experiencing it.

I appreciate the going ons of Ghost in the Shell and Real Drive, the politcal intrigue, the exploration of futuristic themes and issues, etc. On the other hand, I experienced the angst and loss in The Cockpit's story of Ensign Nogami feeling duty-bound to crash his Ohka into the side of an American carrier. What Gundam could learn from that one OVA...


So, an emotional attachment to Eva? Yeah, I'll cop to that.

[chee]

Except one man's coldness is another man's understatement. Where some people see Anno's style as emotionally powerful, I honestly found that, to me at least, a few moments bordered on being outright maudlin in contrast to the rest of the show - such as Sagisu's godawful, sappy piano and strings cue playing under Gendo and Shinji's reunion in episode one. In contrast, I found Kusanagi's arc in The Sky Crawlers to be quietly powerful.

[Hyper Shinchan]

The first paragraph sounds like he is basically admitting that he is running away from it because of the emotions it might invoke. So Shinji...

I had the same impression, it's like he knows that Eva touches him at an emotional level and he doesn't like that, while he can somehow better rationalise other anime.

NOW HAVE A SWEET, TOTALLY UNIRONIC LOOK AT THIS LUSCIOUS STRIPED Asuka ASS."

Welcome to fanservice, they finally delivered the ones that Misato promised back in the days, Anno was in debt to us you know.

On the other hand, I experienced the angst and loss in The Cockpit's story of Ensign Nogami feeling duty-bound to crash his Ohka into the side of an American carrier. What Gundam could learn from that one OVA...

Oh, I never heard anything about this OVA, thanks for the suggestion Alaska Slim, it sounds really interesting.

[chee]

Welcome to fanservice, they finally delivered the ones that Misato promised back in the days, Anno was in debt to us you know.

.........that's the point

[Reichu]

Where some people see Anno's style as emotionally powerful, I honestly found that, to me at least, a few moments bordered on being outright maudlin in contrast to the rest of the show

At least we didn't have Asuka screaming "Don't think Eva-02 is just some run-of-the-mill cyborg! It has Mama's heart beating inside it!!!" in EoE.

[chee]

At least we didn't have Asuka screaming "Don't think Eva-02 is just some ordinary cyborg! It has Mama's heart beating inside it!!!" in EoE.

Except that's almost Mari-grade dialogue.

[Reichu]

chee: You have to imagine Asuka saying it with Noriko's (Gunbuster) hyper-melodramatic inflection. (Way to ruin the joke. XP )

[Hyper Shinchan]

.........that's the point

What is the point? Anno being in debt? Honourable persons always pay their debts, he did the right thing. Jokes aside, I really don't see what's the big deal with the alleged contradiction between fanservices and the theme of the show, I doubt that Anno's message was limited to "stop watching animu girls' booties", it would be stupid and they actually drew those characters exactly to attract us, at many levels.

[chee]

Seriously? Anno "owed" us fanservice? I don't think I would consider seeing cartoon breasts a right.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Seriously? Anno "owed" us fanservice?

Why not? Misato kept promising them until episode 15, when they finally realised that they weren't delivering enough fanservices after all.