Is Gendo Ikari a Byronic Hero?

[esselfortium]

I don't think he would. They make an offhand mention to all the adult testpilots being fried or absorbed which is the convenient excuse on why they have to use children. Even if it is an excuse there was probably some truth to that; why use mentally unstable kids unless they really are the only ones who'll work? I'd think that Gendo would be able to figure out that climbing into the entry plug and going after her himself was pretty dangerous, possibly send mooks in his stead and getting the confirmation that she wasn't salvageable that way. Otherwise, wouldn't he have died?

I believe the idea would be that, if he can't bring her out, he would be absorbed with her and they would be together forever~~~~

[Allemann]

I believe the idea would be that, if he can't bring her out, he would be absorbed with her and they would be together forever~~~~

Don't you think he would do it if it was possible to do?

[Azathoth]

I believe the idea would be that, if he can't bring her out, he would be absorbed with her and they would be together forever~~~~

Indeed, that's what he decided on eventually. And surely he has some reason for suspecting that nobody but Shinji can make Unit 01 work - someone must have tried, and a man as self-obsessed as Gendou would hardly have let anyone else hop inside his waifu.

[LealahLupin3]

Indeed, that's what he decided on eventually. And surely he has some reason for suspecting that nobody but Shinji can make Unit 01 work - someone must have tried, and a man as self-obsessed as Gendou would hardly have let anyone else hop inside his waifu.

How'd he avoid getting fried, then? Shinji's mentioned as being lucky that he isn't dead or irrevocably insane (well, you know what I mean) after he gets in the Entry Plug with Asuka. Did it just not work? I agree that he ultimately decided that he wanted to be absorbed along with her but I don't think he would have been so incautious as to try to do it the short way.

[Azathoth]

How'd he avoid getting fried, then? Shinji's mentioned as being lucky that he isn't dead or irrevocably insane (well, you know what I mean) after he gets in the Entry Plug with Asuka. Did it just not work? I agree that he ultimately decided that he wanted to be absorbed along with her but I don't think he would have been so incautious as to try to do it the short way.

Probably Yui didn't do anything at all. Synchronization presumably requires some kind of extremely strong mental connection between pilot and Eva - Shinji is able to sync with Unit 01 because he is symbolically not independent of his mother. Gendou is independent of Yui - although he doesn't want to be, and spends most of his time either banging women that sort of remind him of Yui in a pathetic attempt to recapture her, or actually planning how to become one with her.

I would say that his unwilling independence from Yui and the fact that allowing him inside the core of Unit 01 would run directly counter to her goals is what prevented him from being absorbed, but it could be purely technical considerations too - bear in mind that the whole concept of A10 nerve clips and conventional synchronization may not even have existed yet at the time of Yui's disappearance, and only a prototype plugsuit with wings (!) - he may have just figured that jumping in there would do the trick.

Or who knows, maybe his underlying cowardice overpowered him and he never actually did this - but Gendou's not stupid, surely he at least considered repeating the experiment that got Yui absorbed in the first place.

[Reichu]

bear in mind that the whole concept of A10 nerve clips and conventional synchronization may not even have existed yet at the time of Yui's disappearance

Yui is seen wearing an interface headset ("A10 nerve clips" is not what those objects are called, BTW...).



Also, the manga, for whatever it's worth, directly states that Yui was undergoing a synchronization test.

Is my suggestion that Gendo wanted to use an impact to reunite with Yui because an impact was part of the plan anyway all that radical?

In episode #24, he talks to her like they've got some kind of mutual plan that's coming to fruition. Could just be the sign of a delusional mind, but the fact that Fuyutsuki is on board with anything that Gendo's doing has certain implications.

[LealahLupin3]

Is my suggestion that Gendo wanted to use an impact to reunite with Yui because an impact was part of the plan anyway all that radical?

Not at all. I think what we were getting at is that if he had the option he probably would have at least tried to reunite with Yui sooner rather than 10 years later.

[The Abhorrent]

Of course he doesn't want to kill the entire human race...but if he thought there was a way for him to get into Unit 01's core without tanging everyone, you'd think he'd have tried that.

I think it's fairly evident that he did try, at least once. The extraction process to get Shinji out of Unit 01 during episode 20 was stated to have been done once before, 10 years prior. The situation is heavily implied to be an attempt at getting Yui out of Unit 01, and it didn't work in any case. I can't remember where I read this, but there's something floating around out there which states or at least implies that the first extraction attempt wasn't a complete failure.

Rei may have been "born" as a result of this test.

It could also just be speculation, but it kinda makes sense in the context of the series. Along with the tidbit of info that Unit 01 was still attached to Lilith during the Contact Experiment where Yui was absorbed (and presumably still attached during the extraction attempt), it would be an easy answer to why Rei has Lilith's soul and looks like a younger version of Yui (around her son's age at the time). The source of all the Rei clones is would be a mystery, but could be explained as bits of Lilith which have fallen off her torso (all the tiny legs). And maybe I'm overanalyzing things a bit here.

There is the obvious question whether or not Yui chose to remain in Unit 01, or even if she has any sort of control (or lucidity) over the results of the extraction process for that matter.


Back to Gendo. He tried to get Yui out, but couldn't. However, he now has a girl born from the angel Lilith under his care.... and his key to gaining some level of control over Third Impact and therefore the chance to reunite with Yui. You can guess what happens from there.

[Cody MacArthur Fett]

I don't think he would. They make an offhand mention to all the adult testpilots being fried or absorbed which is the convenient excuse on why they have to use children.

Actually, I don't think they ever mentioned why they have to use children as pilots in the series, only that they do. Irregardless, whatever excuses they give would be just that, excuses meant to cover up the fact that the Evas have the pilot's mother's soul in them, which is why only the mother's children can pilot the Eva and why every single pilot candidate out there doesn't have a living biological mother.

Is my suggestion that Gendo wanted to use an impact to reunite with Yui because an impact was part of the plan anyway all that radical?

Not really. In fact it's a very reasonable theory, a little bit too reasonable.

Near as I can tell, the plans for Third Impact were as follows:
Seele: Tang humanity and becomes gods. (Obvious crazy death cult.)
Yui: Tang humanity and absorb it into Unit-01. [Possible use as STL colony ship? (Definitely going to have to rewatch EoE with a pencil and paper.)]
Gendo: Reunite with Yui. (May or may not involve tanging humanity.)


Getting back to the thread topic though. I feel that because so many of Gendo's actions take place in the shadows it's hard to give any definite conclusion on whether he meets all the requirements of the Byronic Hero archetype. Thoughts?

[Reichu]

Gendo: Reunite with Yui. (May or may not involve tanging humanity.)

His instructions to Rei in EoE aren't THAT ambiguous... How long has it been since you looked at the dialogue for the movie? ;p (Already questioned where you were getting your Yui interpretation from.)

As for "too" reasonable, I don't think one can be too reasonable when explanatory power is at stake. Watch Gendo talk to Yui in #24; watch Gendo and Fuyu's various interactions; and watch Fuyutsuki's super-important chat with Yui. We'll never know precisely what, but the three share a common imperative that existed before 2004, and still exists in some form in 2015.

If Gendo modifies the Plan to indulge a post-2004 obsession, this doesn't at all mean that the obsession is his only motivation; it's just been added onto a preexisting one. And naturally, something as intensely personal as wanting to be spiritually reunited with a lover would drive him to achieve their long-standing goals that much more passionately.

[Cody MacArthur Fett]

His instructions to Rei in EoE aren't THAT ambiguous... How long has it been since you looked at the dialogue for the movie? ;p (Already questioned where you were getting your Yui interpretation from.)

Uh, it's been about a week or three actually. I usually have a pretty good memory for these things, but then again it is End of Evangelion and I did just come off a seven hour long math binge when I wrote that so I could be wrong. Like I said, I'll have to rewatch EoE sometime soon, this time with a pencil and paper. Until then though, I think I've said my piece on this topic.

[Reichu]

I guess if I had any point at all: corroborating quotes are nice, especially when people start asking, "Wait... what?"

[TheLobe]

introspective, bipolar, gendo, really

[Eva Yojimbo]

After some thought, he seems to fit the description of a Byronic Hero, a very specific type of anti-hero which could be best summarized as "Anti-'Hero' in name only".

I've always felt this was a pretty obvious no-brainer, myself. I guess it's because Gendo isn't the protagonist that so many are reluctant to apply such labels to him. It's tough to judge such things in a work that displays such a wide-range of perspectives.

I would say that's probably going a bit too far with the assumptions. Yui's motivations are still very murky at best, if still very integral the plot of the series.

I still like the "I/We can't stop SEELE/3I on our own, so I'll just insert myself irrevocably into the middle of their plans in a way that will allow my only son to decide the fate of humanity... as long as I can get my mitts on an S2 somewhere along the way" theory.

[Kendrix]

I think he IS supposed to be some sort of teritary protagonist; We rarely see him do stuff on-screen but they insert him exchanging cryptic remarks with Kaji or Fuyutsuki at least once an episode, so we don't forget that he's still there, he's importand and he's working hard to archieve his ambition. They even put him in ep. 8, where they had to intruduce two new characters and thus had no Rei (She is in every other episode, even if it's only for short glimpses)

When they had to pick what to keep for Rebuild, they chose

SPOILER: Show

virtually every important Gendo scene exept the one from ep 11 cuz There's no way they could have inserted this in a fitting context. He even got plenty of extra lines and the whole thing is arranged in a way that we get to understand his PoV better (or well, maybe it's just having seen EoE before it... duh...)to the point that I felt the urge to give him a big hug at many points of the movie... and didn't they make him a tad more bishie, or is it just the shiny graphix?

He IS presented as accomplishing stuff a story of his own. We just see the SEELE ppl hovering about everything and making comments from above, like classical villains. Of course, its more a light grey vs dark grey situation, Gendo isn't a saint (neither is anyone else) but hes the lighter grey here.

[Azathoth]

When they had to pick what to keep for Rebuild, they chose

SPOILER: Show

virtually every important Gendo scene exept the one from ep 11 cuz There's no way they could have inserted this in a fitting context. He even got plenty of extra lines and the whole thing is arranged in a way that we get to understand his PoV better (or well, maybe it's just having seen EoE before it... duh...)to the point that I felt the urge to give him a big hug at many points of the movie... and didn't they make him a tad more bishie, or is it just the shiny graphix?

They did this because Gendou is the main antagonist of Rebuild, and Shinji's entire character arc has been re-aimed towards him (yeah, even the Rei thing, remember who's trying to set Shinji up with the poor girl) - and just as Shinji comes off as more sullen, more active, more self-possessed, more Gendou-esque if you like; Gendou begins to show signs of the emotion that NGE and even EoE left us guessing after - his hallucinatory Yui during dinner, his furious reaction after Shinji's "You should lose someone..." line - it would be a bit of a stretch to say he is becoming more Shinji-like but the potential is there.

[Kendrix]

Actually, I think he's portrayed LESS villainous in rebuild

SPOILER: Show

since we get some better insight into his motivations. It's more obvious that he did the dummy plug thing to save his kid, we see that heartbreaking Yui hallucination thing, him keeping Rei company ALL THE TIME in her tube (the chair MAKES a difference - I can see why this girl is so loyal to him and that she certainly got some of her personality traits from being around him), him coming in that limousine to actually pick up Shinji to the dinner party, giving Shinji some advice (even if it failed spectaculary), plus he got Anno's quote (Anno's always ranting on how our society is too childish, that scene where Gendo tells Shinji to grow up and Shinji says he doesn't know how - It's WORD FOR WORD something Anno said in an interview... Wasn't it the docuimentary with the kids?)

EoE gives him that awesome "Death creates Nothing" quote (tough he does less that heroic stuff the rest of the movie...) and EoTV has him as a more obvious tragic hero with his "Because It's the only way to live"
I'm not saying that Gendo is a 100% good guy (The only one who you could remotely call that is Misato), but I doubt Anno intended him as the Archvillain.

[Trajan]

While Gendo could definitely fit into the mold of the Byronic Hero I think he’s a bit different. With help from TV Tropes one could easily categorize Gendo as an Unfettered Chaotic Neutral Magnificent Bastard.

That is, he doesn't care about anything other than reuniting with Yui. If something helps him with that goal, he'll use it. If something hinders that goal, he'll eliminate it. If something has no bearing on that goal, he'll pay no attention to it. This may be why he's so distant and aloof; in his mind socializing with most of his employees isn't going to bring Yui back - so why bother?

[Kendrix]

While Gendo could definitely fit into the mold of the Byronic Hero I think he’s a bit different. With help from TV Tropes one could easily categorize Gendo as an Unfettered Chaotic Neutral Magnificent Bastard.

That is, he doesn't care about anything other than reuniting with Yui. If something helps him with that goal, he'll use it. If something hinders that goal, he'll eliminate it. If something has no bearing on that goal, he'll pay no attention to it. This may be why he's so distant and aloof; in his mind socializing with most of his employees isn't going to bring Yui back - so why bother?

Except both endings have him show further motivations/other reasons to support his version of TI...

But you're probably right about the doersnt-care-about-anything-else-part - Ritsuko DOES hint that his concept of 'private life' is no more existant than Rei's.
Well, I guess he cares about Shinji and Rei, but he can't show it that well, expecially not in the case of the former. I guess he choses to focus on what he thinks he CAN change with his own hands and hopes that his kids will enjoy instrumentality as well.

[Azathoth]

Well, I guess he cares about Shinji and Rei, but he can't show it that well, expecially not in the case of the former.

He doesn't care about Shinji. He has no clue how to relate to the kid (=himself) and admits that he was afraid to try to find out - and so he ditched the kid...not without reasons, given his larger social incompetence and general unfitness to parent anything bigger than a goldfish. But it's difficult to say he particularly cares about Shinji, and I don't believe for a second that "I'd only have hurt him if I stayed" is anything more than an excuse to avoid telling the truth to the one person he genuinely did care about.

I honestly don't think he cares too much about Rei, either. He cares about Yui whose image is reflected in her, and sometimes he can't help but knee-jerk when she's in trouble - but the coldness with which he's often willing to spend her life and replace her with a spare tells me that he doesn't give a damn for Lilith-the-person, her thoughts, her hopes - which comes back to bite his arm off.