Release date of Evangelion 2.22 DVD and BluRay in Italy

[mp3dom]

I'm not here as a Dynit's representative, but rather as a guest and an Evangelion fan.
The menu will be close to the Japanese menu mantaining also the same look & feel of the previous 1.11 release for 'continuity' reason. The packaging too will be very similiar to the Japanese counterpart. The aim is to stay close as much as possible to the Japanese edition.

I'll be very glad to read your comments and suggestion after the BD will hit the stores ;)

[vito]

Oh awesome. This makes me want to get the italian release even more. I'll have to ask people at the coast if they can get it in Trieste

hey mp3dom, just curious are you guys using SBMV tech that the Japanese release used?

Oh heh, I see you posted on the animeinblu BD comparison thread so you probably know what I'm talking about.

[mp3dom]

Hi vito. Yes, the BD features SBMV (the 'Extend' version, which is the latest implementation of the algorithm)

[vito]

Cool, thanks for answering. If anyone has a webstore they recommend and ships outside Italy I'm open to suggestions (I live across the border in Slovenia).

I keep hearing the Italian postal system sucks.

[Hyper Shinchan]

I keep hearing the Italian postal system sucks.

I dunno, I usually use couriers even for shipping from Italy, they don't accept deliveries to Slovenia?

Hi vito. Yes, the BD features SBMV (the 'Extend' version, which is the latest implementation of the algorithm)

I never really understood SBMV, does it really improve colours? How? And what are the players that support it (does the PS3 support it?)?

[mp3dom]

I never really understood SBMV, does it really improve colours? How? And what are the players that support it (does the PS3 support it?)?

SBMV is not made to improve colors, it's a dithering algorithm useful to prevent color banding artefacts (aka "not uniform color gradations"). It doesn't need a particular support from the standalone players since it affects the encoding process (so the result is already encoded). There are anyways some players that have SBMV built-in as a filter to allow an user to mitigate the color banding artefacts on an already compressed video.

[Hyper Shinchan]

SBMV is not made to improve colors, it's a dithering algorithm useful to prevent color banding artefacts (aka "not uniform color gradations"). It doesn't need a particular support from the standalone players since it affects the encoding process (so the result is already encoded). There are anyways some players that have SBMV built-in as a filter to allow an user to mitigate the color banding artefacts on an already compressed video.

But what is the need? Do anime sources (like Evangelion) suffer of colour banding? Aren't they coloured digitally?
I've seen in the past some examples and it seems to help a lot (it really looks like some kind of dithering) but I don't understand why they simply don't apply dithering from the beginning; did the cinema release use SBMV or they showed those problems with the colour gradations?

[vito]

Here you have comparison of 3 releases:

http://www.animeinblu.com/?p=1002

Japanese one uses SBMV. Other two don't. I'd say the problem isn't digital coloring but how the compression codec (AVC) handles the gradients and introduces the color banding artefact.

HyperShinchan: any store you'd recommend?

[mp3dom]

The master doesn't suffer from color banding (in general). Masters have higher quality/bit depth/informations than the final encoded version for bluray. The color banding comes when you do the compression stage, because some color informations are thrown away. Dithering is useful to 'mask' this discarded informations using a sort of 'rounding'. If you don't dither, there's no 'rounding' so you see the bandings. You do something similar with audio too. When you need to go from a 24bit audio to a 16 bit audio, you do a bit-depth conversion adding 'noise' to round the conversion.
Speaking about the video, the masters are in general at 10bit (but there are sources at higher bit-depth), while the videos on bluray are forced to 8bit (because it's more efficient compression-wise and human eye is weak on color informations, except color bandings :)).

[Hyper Shinchan]

Here you have comparison of 3 releases:

http://www.animeinblu.com/?p=1002

Japanese one uses SBMV. Other two don't. I'd say the problem isn't digital coloring but how the compression codec (AVC) handles the gradients and introduces the color banding artefact.

I'm not sure about it, colour information are downsampled before feeding to the encoder since the BD specs allow only the 4:2:0 colour space but it's said that human eye isn't so sensible in variations of colours (it's more sensible in variations of brightness); I'm not sure which can kind of problems the encoder could introduce after that.
EDIT:
I started writing before mp3dom posted his explanation, thank you very much (too bad that the BD specs don't allow 10 bit colour space, it'll save us these troubles). BTW how are the masters of the Rebuild, 10 bits or 12 bits?

HyperShinchan: any store you'd recommend?

I'm sorry but usually I don't order animes (I order mainly electronic goods) but I order them from my local shop (it's cheaper since I don't have to pay the expedition costs). Apparently Dynit doesn't even sell the BD of the first movie from their shop (it's really weird).
I made a quick search and for example http://www.lafeltrinelli.it and http://www.ibs.it/ accept international deliveries (and they have the BD of 1.11 in their catalogue so probably they'll have the BD of 2.22 in the near future). Both of them are famous shops that can be trusted, my relatives use them to order books.

[mp3dom]

BTW how are the masters of the Rebuild, 10 bits or 12 bits?

10 bits. I would also like to add that some banding appears on final encodes even if the master is already at 8bit. This is because the encoder tries to preserve more the high frequencies (details). Color banding in general appears on flat background with subtle color differences. In that areas, there are only low frequencies so the encoder approximate the calculations and compress more with the risk that the bitrate-budget is not enough to avoid color banding. In that case SBMV is useful too because adds subtle grain (near as invisible) as a dithering process even on those flat areas. The results is that more bitrate is dedicated to flat background limiting the color banding artefacts.
In general, it's a good procedure to encode the video, watch it, take note of the parts that need special treatment and re-encode only those parts with higher bitrate/different settings.

I'm aware that this explanation is highly OT but I wish it could be helpful to understand some production process behind video compression.

[Hyper Shinchan]

I suppose that it's quite technical but it's nice to hear a good explanations about this stuff, SBMV was quite a puzzle for me until tonight; anyway it's related to how the Rebuild BDs have been encoded so it's not really OT (I suppose).
Thank you again for your nice explanation (today the BD should be out, I wonder if I'll find it already or I'll have to wait a little).

[vito]

Thanks mp3dom. I don't think it's offtopic it was quite informative.

Hyper Shinchan: thanks, since shipping is free in Italy I might just order it somewhere close to the border and pick it up :)

[Tetsuo87]

I come back from Lucca and finally it's mine. (along with the 3 meters mega logo that was on the stand, and which now hangs from the ceiling of my room.)
[URL=http://img801.imageshack.us/i/evasoffitto.jpg/][/URL]

You have to congratulate all the staff Dynit. beautiful edition I purchased the DVD and Blu-ray. are totally agree with the choice to leave everything as similar Japanese edition, not as the "crucchi" or the Americans. in Blu-ray is truly rejoices in the glorious picture quality, here we need to say thanks mp3dom , even for the issue of color banding, the result is truly excellent, there are always nuances without "steps". I also work in post-production sector. I do not follow the encoding directly, I follow the technical part of the editing application (avid), but that the color banding is increasingly a problem, when using any computer graphics in HD, as long as you work with uncompressed material there are no problems, but at the time of the exports go crazy,
now they are also releasing many plugins to solve this problem as "Deband" in genarts shappire or others, but it is always a big job. but for make the encoding usually uses the cinemacraft hd? the Procoder? or other? even the audio is very good I do not linger there either, and improved dubbing from 1.XX
The only downside are the extras, really miserable, (the "3D" Mari card is very bad). Certainly, from Japan do not offer more, if only Evangelion was screened at the cinema, it possible add those 6 frames of film. that would be wonderful ...
In Lucca, 2009, the Cava had mentioned to bargain with someone to distribuite Eva in cinema... but then no one has heard nothing

However, then it's nice to know that the technical part is followed by a fan of eva, is a guarantee of quality.
now I have a favor to ask, if I send you the tape, you can do me a copy in HDCAM SR 10 bit? without telling anyone .... I am willing to pay ... hehe
is of course a joke but I could put some screenshots from the dvd and the Blu-ray, to see any differences with the Japanese version...
and forgive my bad English...
Bye

[vito]

Is it still possible to get 1.11 bluray limited anywhere?

[Tetsuo87]

I think the limited of Evangelion is out everywhere. (You mean this: Evangelion 1.11 Limited) but there is a standard,(Evangelion 1.11 Standard) the difference between the two, however, is only the packaging. the standard version is in the plastic package, the classic of all BD, that is available and can be found online or in several large-scale retail stores (Saturn, Mediaworld etc.)
This is the topic of the Italian edition of Evangelion 1.01 and 1.11: [url]http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=7517[/url]
here a picture with the two different packing

[the_seventh_child]

Huuum, i checked some online retailers and some of them say this edition includes english subtitles while some others do not.
Can you enlighten me on that, as it is the biggest factor over whether i buy it or not.

[mp3dom]

Sorry but the italian BD doesn't contain english subtitles. Actually the only edition that offer english subs is the HK edition. FUNimation have anyway acquired the rights of 2.22 and should be out in the beginning of 2011 (if I'm not wrong)

[vito]

HK is region A only though.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Well, finally my copy has arrived (actually it was yesterday but I didn't have time to mention it).
I can't make a quality comparison since I've not purchased my new PC (with a BD unit) yet so I can't make comparative sceenshoots but anyway the quality is really good; probably I'll make some comparison just for fun after I'll purchase a new PC (I've been postponing it from a lot of time but I should finally decide before the end of the year...).
Anyway I've a pair of notes (one is about the authoring and the other one is about the translation):
a) the subtitles are in my opinion a little too tiny, of course I'm almost blind but it's quite hard to watch them for a lot of time from my bed (which is at around 2 meters from my 32'' television); also they're quite simple, giving them a prospective effect wouldn't be bad (you know when you're used to fansubs you end up having higher requirements).
b) this has been a long time issue of Italian animes, the subtitles aren't a direct translation but simply a transcription of the dubbing. This has always left me disappointed since sometimes heavy modifications are required in the dubbing but they're not required for the subtitles that can be far more literal (one especially fun point is the final "service, service" of Misato in the preview at the end of 1.11 that is rendered as "the emotion will continue" because it was translated in this way in the original Dynamic dubbing of NGE and they probably wanted to remain consistent with their old dubbing (for this aspect, other things were changed, for example most pronunciation have been americanised like "A.T. Field").
Of course I'm aware that probably Dynit think that most of his customers prefers to hear the dubbing but some extra-efforts for the subtitles wouldn't be bad, I know at least some people who prefer to watch animes subtitled as I do.
Also I've a note about the first BD (1.11, not 2.22): in one point (when Misato says "A.T. Field?" when Shinji is hit by Ramiel's attack) it seems like the subtitles has been omitted, I don't understand if it was intentional.
Unfortunately the trailers at the beginning have returned (I was quite happy that they were missing in the 1.11 BD) but I suppose that it can't be helped.
And one final question for mp3dom: how is it possible that the menus of your 1.11 looks so similar to the ones of the 2.22? From what I've seen the Japanese 1.11 had menus that were different for some aspects (the background was identical but the layout was different) but the ones you've used are almost identical to the ones used for the Japanese 2.22 (which came out after Dynit released the 1.11).
Anyway the menus are one another good point, compared to the ones used in the German and American edition they're quite similar to the Japanese one (and since we're bitches we want them that way).

One thing that I won't ever understand is why it's region coded, is it required by Khara (to prevent low sales in Japan since there's a Japanese track, it's cheaper and it has a comparable video quality)?

Kinda unrelated: since I couldn't purchase it from the shop that I usually use to purchase mangas and DVD (even after almost a month) I purchased it from the newborn amazon.it but their packaging was quite poor and the cover (which is in cardboard) ended up being quite ruined, too bad (anyway I don't understand what SDA do with their packages).