Sequel Theory - General

[Archer]

SPOILER: Show

(For me) There cannot be a reboot after eoe, if there was, everything would reboot, but it is not the case (I do not want to go into details of things)

Cycle and different universe can, each one has his arguments, pros and cons

What bothers me is that, for example, on Reddit, there are people who parrot "the red sea", who say things as if they were the absolute truth.

Why should you care about Reddit’s opinion on anything, as if it actually has value?

Reddit is particularly worthless, of course, but more generally there’s no point caring too much about other people’s opinions on something as trivial as a movie plot. Redditors have a right to be stupid - you can either let it bother you, or you can just point, laugh and move on. No matter what your reaction is, it’s certainly not going to change any of their opinions anyways.

[T. K. Simon]

SPOILER: Show

Why should you care about Reddit’s opinion on anything, as if it actually has value?

Reddit is particularly worthless, of course, but more generally there’s no point caring too much about other people’s opinions on something as trivial as a movie plot. Redditors have a right to be stupid - you can either let it bother you, or you can just point, laugh and move on. No matter what your reaction is, it’s certainly not going to change any of their opinions anyways.

I wrote it like it bothered me a lot. But no.

What bothers me (a little) is that they do not argue anything to you. They don't give you an opinion, they just tell you "no"

[aboose]

There's no coherent argument that NTE comes chronologically after NGE. As others have pointed out, the internal logic of the entire universe do not align which Shinji would have no motivation in tampering with.

The only real argument you could make is that Shinji resets the world over and over and is playing telephone with himself and after thousands of iterations, you get something that looks like NTE. There is no reason to believe this in the story canon and NGE does not imply this is happening.

The existence of the anti-universe seemingly connecting to the real world (train station scene) implies that the anti-universe connects to all forms of possible existence. It's very realistic to believe that the NGE connection in NTE is Shinji perceiving another world that isn't real to him, just like we are perceiving the world of evangelion in the real world that is not real to us, and that he acknowledges that he and Kaworu have interacted many times. Kaworu and Shinji being aware of each others alternate existences can feel like a "loop". The book of life thing isn't explored enough in the NTE movies to really explain what exactly that means.

[Archer]

Well there’s your problem, expecting actual discussion from Reddit instead of clickbait sob stories, reposted fan art, smoothbrain lukewarm takes, and the same three regurgitated jokes and references that always get hundreds of upvotes.

[BernardoCairo]

I'm merging the threads So Rebuild is sequel of NGE/EoE or not? and A little question for non-supporters of "Sequel Theory". Also, I'm renaming the whole thing to Sequel Theory - General. From now on, use this topic to discuss all things Sequel Theory related.

[T. K. Simon]

Would Rei Quantum be like this kaworu? Someone who can be present beyond their own reality?

[Heaven Piercing Man]

SPOILER: Show

(For me) There cannot be a reboot after eoe, if there was, everything would reboot, but it is not the case (I do not want to go into details of things)

Cycle and different universe can, each one has his arguments, pros and cons

What bothers me is that, for example, on Reddit, there are people who parrot "the red sea", who say things as if they were the absolute truth.

I could go on
"Muh SDAT numbers"
"Muh moon bloodstain"
"Mari is NGE Shinji+Asuka's daughter"
"4th impact in Q means we're after EOE because EOE was the third"
"Adams are the Mass Production Evas"
"Asuka's old plugsuit in Q vaguely looks like a single cherrypicked still frame from Maya's laptop in EOE when 02 is getting eaten, that must mean something!" (before Q came out the looper consensus was that Soryu was coming back)
"Mark 06 is Unit 01 from NGE because it has battle damage from the Sachiel battle" (It was a BOLT in its forehead, nevermind you see said damage get healed on camera in the same episode it happens!)
"Shinji reset the world at the end of EOE" (outright lie, happened in their fanfics or just reading ReTake a bit too much)

The problem with Reddit is that is a sample of normie thought. Go into any other nerdy place and the sequelism is alive and booming. When FF7R came out and it started doing the same but more "in-your-face" and closer to the sequel theories, the first thought by the average poster was "it's pulling an Evangelion" "Was that confirmed?" "yes, it's accepted FACT by now"

And god forbid you step into the Latin American Spanish fandom. They're still stuck on "NGE's lore is biblical" and "NTE is a sequel because RED SEAS. Proof? that 4chan collage"

[T. K. Simon]

The problem with Reddit is that is a sample of normie thought. Go into any other nerdy place and the sequelism is alive and booming. When FF7R came out and it started doing the same but more "in-your-face" and closer to the sequel theories, the first thought by the average poster was "it's pulling an Evangelion" "Was that confirmed?" "yes, it's accepted FACT by now"

And god forbid you step into the Latin American Spanish fandom. They're still stuck on "NGE's lore is biblical" and "NTE is a sequel because RED SEAS. Proof? that 4chan collage"

As our colleague archer said, not to downplay reddit, but don't expect a real discussion

I think it is a good point of evageeks that there is no like, here it is discussed

[BernardoCairo]

There are a lot of huge and unnecessary quotes in this thread (particularly by you, T.K. Simon). Let's try not to quote entire posts (especially when said posts are right above yours). Narrow it down to the part you're addressing, please. I'm going back and putting these anomalies in spoiler tags.

[T. K. Simon]

There are a lot of huge and unnecessary quotes in this thread (particularly by you, T.K. Simon). Let's try not to quote entire posts (especially when said posts are right above yours). Narrow it down to the part you're addressing, please. I'm going back and putting these anomalies in spoiler tags.

¡Ups!

[VenomAlon]

Yes, but its not a "direct sequel" that happens immediately after EoE, I think that its another evangelion reality that happens sometime after EoE events.

nge y nte are two differents eva universes connected, with its own laws and events. Its pretty clear.

[Archer]

We’re getting back to the semantic definition of “sequel” again.

I mean yes, in the most literal sense it’s “another Evangelion reality” (a completely separate continuity) that happens “sometime after EoE” (10 years later, as a matter of fact) that are “connected” by the fact that the Rebuilds are a direct (and then not-so-direct) reimagining of NGE.

I just don’t think that makes the Rebuilds a narrative sequel to NGE. Earlier in the thread I’ve discussed my two criteria for a sequel:
(1) it is a direct continuation, following the same continuity as the original story
(2) it features the same versions of the same characters in more than a cursory capacity

Thematically, I absolutely think the Rebuilds are at least a direct response/continuation of EoE. So in that sense, I would feel comfortable calling them a “sequel” to NGE/EoE. But that’s not what loopers/sequel theory supporters are talking about when they say it’s a sequel, they are arguing that the Rebuilds and NGE have direct narrative continuity.

[FryMeTuhDehMuhn]

My theory is the loops started after the End of Evangelion. People have been saying NGE couldn't be part of the loops as Kaworu has no interest in Shinji, and his goal in episode 24 is to get down to Adam to start 3rd Impact. At the end though, he decides to let Shinji kill him so that 3rd Impact won't start, and he says he is glad he met Shinji. My guess is that after developing unexpected feelings for Shinji, Kaworu decided he would try to make Shinji happy and somehow wrote their names in the Book of Life after NGE's events, probably not too long after the End of Evangelion though because I don't know why he'd wait for ages before writing the names down. I think NGE is what started the loops, and is the original Evangelion story. NTE is a sequel to NGE, but not a direct one. If we are to believe NGE is the beginning and NTE is the end, judging by how many times Kaworu woke up in the coffins in the Insturmentality sequence, the two are very far apart and NTE takes place a long time after NGE does. I also think it would be the start because NGE plays on a projector when Shinji talks to Rei, and you see the episode titles too. I can't think of any reason they would show just that one loop if it wasn't a special one - The beginning one. In conclusion, it's a sequel, but not directly.
If anything has the video of Kaworu's coffin scene during instrumentality we could find out the minimum number of loops that have happened if the video was slowed down enough and we could count how many times he wakes up. That could be a good pointer for how far apart NGE and NTE are.

[Archer]

That’s what I mean when I say it’s a “thematic sequel”. Presumably, the loops started with events that likely played out very similar to NGE/EoE. That doesn’t mean that NGE/EoE, the literal events of the anime as we see them, is actually one of the loops.

As much as I hate TVTropes, it’s what I’d classify as a broad strokes “sequel”, where it’s implied that some version of the events of the previous installment happened, but the current installment and the previous installment are not directly related in continuity.

[T. K. Simon]

I can see it in another way

NGE / EOE can be part of the cycles, but those cycles are different continuities (that is, we do not even know when one ends or starts). Being Kaworu every time he dies he goes to another cycle.

But if SEELE (Rebuild) cloned Kaworu (1.0 coffins, some are failed attempts, and the golgota object can see through people's memories. There would be a chance that there is a rebuild cycle of its own, all coffins have seele logo (Rebuild)

[Archer]

If that’s how you want to interpret it, the movie leaves enough ambiguity to do so.

I’m just saying there’s no textual evidence to suggest that NGE as we see it must be one of the loops, or that NGE and the Rebuilds take place in some Eva multiverse. Just that the previous loops were “NGE-like”.

[T. K. Simon]

Sure, there is no solid evidence that NGE and EOE are part of the cycle.
Like the end of Shin

[VenomAlon]

so It could be an antoher evangelion universe that starts when EoE ends, not a direct sequel but a multiverse connected, for that, in the golgota we see how Shinji remembers some events in NGE and we see things like universes while Shinji and Gendo are in the antiuniverse, then he destroys all universes and creates a one with no evas

[Stan]

I don't know if I should call it sequel or not, but it's another timeline after the world was reset. Not sure if this happens right after EoE, or if a few other failed timelines occurred before the Rebuilds, but the implication is that EoE already occurred and Kawaru hopes for a different outcome this time.

[Bhorium]

Everyone supporting the Sequel Theory, especially on Reddit, seem to focus overly much on both the overt and vague visual similarities Rebuild has with stuff from EoE, but also ignore that there are, ultimately, just many more contradictions than similarities, particularly in lore and character backstories.

Also, the idea of Rebuild being a sequel is all in all just a very unsatisfying idea, narratively speaking.