Amazon Prime's English Dub (General)

[CoolJosh2002]

Okay, just watched the first 15 minutes or so of 3.0+1.01 dubbed. (So the recap, and the Paris scene. ie. The stuff that had already been around for a couple years at this point.)

I'm mainly going to be focussing on Mari, Maya and Ritsuko here, as they were the main ones in the Paris scene. I got glimpses of Hyuga and Aoba as well, and they both sounded good. I'm a happy man for the most part so far.

Besides a few off moments (Doggy instead of Puppy or Nervling), the occasional line here or there. I was quite happy with the script here. Couple things I noticed, Fuyutsuki was pronounced right, which was good, although it seems that WILLE is pronounced differently compared to the Funi dub of 3.33, though it has been a little bit since I saw it so I could be wrong. Although I think Allison nailed the pronounciation in Funi 3.33 so I have no idea what's happened here.

Anyway characters; From what I heard from Mary Faber as Ritsuko I quite like it. I feel she has a good tone of voice for the doctor that works in the situation. Definitely better than Erica Lindbeck in my opinion, and maybe even Sue Ulu. Not sure whether I like her more than Colleen Clinkenbeard yet though, will need a bit more time to decipher that.

Amy Seeley is back as Maya and I quite liked her. I certainly think she's improved a bit since the Manga EoE days, so that's good. Her voice is slightly deeper here compared to EoE, which I think works for Maya better, although I'm curious to see if she alters her voice slightly for Pre-Timeskip versus Post-Timeskip, I'll have to wait and see. (Need to watch 1.11-3.33 yet). I still think Monica Rial and Caitlin Glass were slightly better for now, but I'm sure Seeley will move to take that number 1 spot with those two with time.

Mari... I did like Deneen Melody's take. I also think she doesn't hold a candle at all to Trina Nishimura. Watching this scene made me miss Nishimura, so while I like Melody, and think she's done a good job so far. A part of me would've preferred keeping Nishimura instead.

In terms of other characters like Kaworu and Kaji, I haven't heard enough yet to make a decision regarding their recasts. I'll likely be back to provide my individual thoughts for each film from 1.11. So I'll see you then!

[Warren Peace]

So, at about 01:04:35, they left in two line readings by Fuyutsuki's dub actor, yes? He says "The reactivation of the Unit 13 is only a matter of time"... and then says it again, a little differently. I thought someone would've pointed this out already, so am I missing something?

Otherwise, the dub was a nice trip down memory lane. Despite going with subs 99% of the time now, I'll still have affection for these longtime VAs, since it was their voices I heard during my first viewing of Eva back in the day.

[Jayfive]

Yeah I mentioned this in another thread.

I am 100% convinced they’ve accidentally recorded two takes.

Even the original EoE dub didn’t drop clangers like that.

[Hooded_Omar]

2.22 (Funimation Dub):

"What are you, stupid?!"

2.22 (Amazon Dub):

"You're an idiot, aren't you?!"

Why would they change such an iconic line?!

[Kendrix]

The unqueering of the show via the Netflix dub is a profound insult to the US fanbase.

The Netflix script comes from the people at khara themselves.
It is simply a more accurate translation to what it has always been like.

If there's an error/disconnect, it's in wanting to preserve the more subtle/indirect style of expression
But it's a Japanese show. It makes sense for it to reflect Japanese culture.
It's an opportunity for the viewers to learn about Japan. Just like a Bollywood movie would have people wearing Indian clothes and acting according to Indian culture. I don't think USA ppl realize how much American culture & politics showed in the faces of everyone in the world. You can stand to be exposed to different cultures once in a while.
Americans get cartered to all the time. Sometimes its not about you.
Note that the "heterosexual" confessions of Rei & Asuka also use the word "like".

Like I'm bi myself but I'm sick "does it have gay in it" being treated as the only indicator of quality like actual writing doesn't matter.
I also don't agree with the dudebro mindset that posits good writing and representation as opposites (after all, having the occasional lgbtq person is just reflecting how reality actually is - ideally you want BOTH) but not every single show is gonna be about that especially not one that is over 20 years old
It's not a show by a queer creator, nor a show about queer themes.
It's just not about that, in the same way that it's also not about sports, or religion.
For a lot of people religion is a big important part of their lives, it's certainly a big factor of the human condition, but the fact that not every show is about religion and some just really aren't does not deny that.

It's a very personal auteur project of some people making what they themselves like & talking about topics that affect them, not a political statement (indeed, artists who make political statements usually do so cause it affects themselves. Most good art with gay stuff in it is done by a gay person or someone whose close friends or family members are gay, because art is self-expression. )

What the original work had was a certain ambiguity or plurality of interpretation. The romantic reading was certainly intended as one possible reading(as confirmed in shizo/parano - so I am NOT AT ALL claiming that "the fangirls are just making something up"), but it was never "the" reading. It was always one of the many "make up your own mind/rohrscharch-y" aspects of the show.

The purpose was not a gay person writing a gay story, but for Kaworu to be, first and foremost, a shadow archetype. (Ie, he can't be a girl if he's Shinji's shadow) and everything else about him is subordinate to that purpose.
The ambiguity in the relationship also has a purpose: For the viewer to imagine whatever would be more comforting for them in Shinji's position.
If you're isolated, then romantic love is just another thing you don't have, so you might want it.
But to others that may be connected to too many demands/expectations, so they would find simple friendship to be more comforting.

So if you, as a person who would definitely want romantic love (or indeed gay love specifically) if you were all alone, interpreted it as romantic, it's working as intended for the purpose of making you share in Shinji's relief and later his despair when he loses Kaworu (and his bliss when they're reunited during third impact)

If someone sees them as friends, but also feels Shinji'srelief & despair, that's also working.


whereas if it's a queer creator who has as an explicit goal to express queer specific experiences or to give younger queer people validation, they might not care if the emotional torque doesn't work as well for some hetero people & they rather care that it's explicitly unambiguously labeled as gay so ppl can relate to it (especially in the face of historical erasure), because that's the emotion that they want to express.

Just like a story that just happens to ambiguously mention religion is not going to work by the same parameters as one that is for religious people.


There is no reason to fight over crumbs and tablescraps, anyways - there are so many explicitly unambiguously queer shows/books these days that explicitly carter to queer ppl (and/or americans) as an audience, where you could find exactly the content you want, made explicitly for you. And this becomes more true the more you're willing to look outside the mainstream.

[Archer]

I think Kaworu’s relationship with Shinji is definitely meant to be more ambiguous than the girls in Shin.

In the sub at least, Asuka explicitly states that she had a crush on him, which is unambiguously romantic. And while Rei uses the more ambiguous “like” in her confession, in 2.0 Asuka specifically recognizes that she (…well, Rei 2 anyways) has fallen in love with him, and the first act of Shin is basically Rei Q learning to fall in love again. Kaworu on the other hand used the more ambiguous “attracted to” in his confession. Yes, that can ABSOLUTELY be read multiple ways. But unlike the girls, it’s not explicitly and undeniably romantic, because as you say the point of Kaworu’s character isn’t that he has teh gays for Shinji, and reducing him to “lol gay” as if that’s the end-all-be-all of what he represents is kind of doing him a disservice.

IMO, Kaworu’s interactions with him are about as explicitly romantic as Mari’s. Like, it’s CLEARLY intended so that you can read them that way if you want, but at the same time there’s a level of plausible deniability since Mari acts equally flirty and touchy-feely with Asuka so maybe that’s just the kind of person she is around all her friends.

[silvermoonlight]

First part on my full reviews.

1.11funimation vs Amazon 1.11

I think both versions are good both Rei voice actors are great, I do feel the Amazon version humanizes Shinji more, like him screaming to be let out because the LCL is boiling him. So I'd say watch ether version, depending on the Rei you want, their both solid.

2.22 funimation vs Amazon 2.22

This film is the real weak point for me in terms of Amazon, the issue is though Melody is clearly a great and talented VA but she is really miscast as Mari as Nishimura's performance is just better, and it really shows in the beast mode fight.

I also don't like that Asuka is more of an asshole in this version and calls Rei commander's pet instead of first child as it just makes her come off lacking empathy and not caring that Rei's whole relationship with Gendo is creepy, the lift scene also feels weird between them.

I hated that they cut out Asuka's scream when 01 cracks the plug, like that pissed me off, as it's a real chilling moment. As well as Asuka referring to Toji as Linim (AKA linin) as this was a spoiler that didn't need to be there as it points to Asuka being cloned like Kaworu/Rei before the truth is even out.

I, also don't like that Rei does not say thank you to Mari when she pushes her off to save her. So I have to say for me, I really prefer the funimation version its take on Asuka which is more hard-nosed but has way more empathy like the series version works better for me.

[Jayfive]

and it really shows in the beast mode fight.

Oh does it ever. There's a moment when Mari pushes off to charge at Zeruel with the bayonet-thing. Nishimura's yell is "Nnnnyaaaa!" like she's charging, Melody's is more "Yeah!" like she's just found out she got good marks on a test.

Her version of the parachating scene is alright, not as flirty as Nishimura. Likewise of her non-battle stuff is OK. But as you say, she's mis-cast.

I hated that they cut out Asuka's scream when 01 cracks the plug

Seriously? That's twice now that this has happened - there's a scream in a later film they've just not used anything for in the dub - it's just soundtrack. And in places they've used Miyamura's vocalizations. Did Tiffany Grant have a sore throat on the days of recording or something?

[Jayfive]

And now I'm finding out they've removed Asuka's scream when the plug is crushed in the Bardiel fight. The hell is going on with this dub?

[GentlemanX]

There are times in the new dubs where Spencer's dialogue transitions to Ogata's screams too. Don't know who's idea it was to do that, but it seems to be a quirk in these dubs.

[silvermoonlight]

Oh does it ever. There's a moment when Mari pushes off to charge at Zeruel with the bayonet-thing. Nishimura's yell is "Nnnnyaaaa!" like she's charging, Melody's is more "Yeah!" like she's just found out she got good marks on a test.

Her version of the parachating scene is alright, not as flirty as Nishimura. Likewise of her non-battle stuff is OK. But as you say, she's mis-cast.

Yeah, I don't like that her version took out the real flirting element ether as that's something I really like about Mari she doesn't give a shit, she's a very open sexual being, and it makes her fun.

The starting fight wth the bone angle also feels muted like I love Nishimura's telling it to go fucking die and saying oh you want the arm I'll just give it to you.As well as them changing the line problem child to child causing problems, but I feel this is not Melody's fault, it's the scriptwriters toning down the character.

Seriously? That's twice now that this has happened - there's a scream in a later film they've just not used anything for in the dub - it's just soundtrack. And in places they've used Miyamura's vocalizations. Did Tiffany Grant have a sore throat on the days of recording or something?

It's happened before? Like I still need to watch 3.33 and Final which I've only seen clips off here and there of certain scenes. They better fix that shit in the Blu-rays when they get them out. When I get a chance and when everything is calmer on Tifany's facebook group, I will ask if they're going to reinsert her scream.

[Jayfive]

There are times in the new dubs where Spencer's dialogue transitions to Ogata's screams too. Don't know who's idea it was to do that, but it seems to be a quirk in these dubs.

Oh for FUCKS sake.

This must have to do with the recording setup. Maybe they recorded their lines remotely or something? The acoustics and mixing on some of the lines seems different than localizations in general to me. They don't seem mixed in to the audio like the Funi dub or the original Japanese. They are more plonked on top like a fandub.

[Ray]

There are times in the new dubs where Spencer's dialogue transitions to Ogata's screams too.

I didn't even notice that. To be honest though a lot of people say Spikes screams as Shinji were his weakest and most unintentionally comedic moments as the character. While I don't see that personally it's a problem a lot of fans had with his take on Shinji. He's much better in the more quiet and sad moments.

Maybe it was a budget issue where they have to pay the voice actor by the line and the dubbing project was being cheap or underfunded?

[Jayfive]

To be honest though a lot of people say Spikes screams as Shinji were his weakest and most unintentionally comedic moments as the character. While I don't see that personally it's a problem a lot of fans had with his take on Shinji. He's much better in the more quiet and sad moments.

Yeah, some of his screams were a bit "Goofy falling down the well" but he got a lot better - witness the first Ramiel battle in 1.0 (original dub obv), you really felt the pain of those ones.

Maybe it was a budget issue where they have to pay the voice actor by the line and the dubbing project was being cheap or underfunded?

You'd think an Amazon-related project would basically be a blank chequebook. I'm sticking with production deficiencies in that studio or the constraints of voice acting remotely. I.e. "Oh hi Mrs Krazinski, no no, I'm OK, I'm just recording myself pretending to be in a big tube of liquid being crushed in the mouth of a out-of-control biomechanical abomination..."

[Warren Peace]

I think the word "love" is ambiguous enough in this context. Is it romantic love, or something else? Changing it to "like" waters it down instead of making it more ambiguous.

As for the defense that it's what Khara wanted, they're not always the best arbiters of translation. For ages, Gainax wanted English translations to refer to individual, non-plural Eva pilots as "children" instead of "child," which doesn't work in English (or in the original, really). Thankfully, they were eventually talked out of that.

[Konja7]

I think the word "love" is ambiguous enough in this context. Is it romantic love, or something else? Changing it to "like" waters it down instead of making it more ambiguous.

I disagree. The word "like" is more ambiguous than "love". It makes it harder to define the type of feeling.

Instead, "love" is the word you would use if you want the main interpretation to be romantic.

[Warren Peace]

That's not the interpretation I want when I say I love my mother. The word can describe all kinds of relationships and feelings.

[Konja7]

That's not the interpretation I want when I say I love my mother. The word can describe all kinds of relationships and feelings.

True. However, when two not related people use the word "love", the main interpretation is romantic. It's extremely unlikely to use the word "love" for friendship.

The word "like" is more ambiguous. It could be romantic, it could be familial, it could just be friendship, etc.

[Warren Peace]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51drrKW7qBL.jpg

Pretty sure Paul Rudd got the Curse of Eva around age 30

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

2.22 (Amazon Dub):

"You're an idiot, aren't you?!"

Why would they change such an iconic line?!

Wait, this was what Tiffany Grant was rage posting about on FB????

Like, I get it, "iconic line" and all, but.... "You're an idiot, aren't you?!" still has a flow and a kinetic energy to it. It sounds natural and condescending. It still sounds like something Asuka would say to Shinji.

Why is Tiffany Grant getting that worked up over this?