Commander Nagisa and Kaji 2.22

[DantesInferno]

SPOILER: Show

In 3.0+1.0, it is said that Kaji sacrificed to stop the Third Impact. Also, I think it's implied he died before his son was born, right?

So, the time difference between Near Third Impact and Third Impact would be few months at most.

It is implied that Misato was pregnant with Kaji's son and that's why she wouldn't go on the helicopter with him to stop third impact and he gives her the blue armband of Wille. I think this is in one her scenes. (She might be looking at a picture of Shinji and Kaji JR during her flashback but I'm not 100% on this)

Yes, I guess the blue armband is the definitive proof that A3I happened some time after, since at the moment of N3I there wasn’t even a hint of NERV members revolting and forming Wille.

---

In the final movie, Gendo reveals that each impact event is a subsequent step in the master plan of intrumentality, had a specific purpose (purify the seas, the land, the souls).

This is in contrast with the naive idea that each impact is a (failed) attempt at instrumentality all on its own. I think it’s safe to say that most of us tacitly had this conception to some extent until now.

The new "grand scheme" explains why all the impacts are so different in appearance: each is aimed to achieve different "milestones" towards instrumentality.

Also, if third impact was about "purifying the land", it explains why in the eyes of those in the know (e.g., Kaworu) N3I and A3I are basically "the same thing”:

What the lilim refer to as Near Third Impact...

It just took longer to get there, from the moment the (somehow necessary piece) Unit-01 is awakened, to the moment whatever it is that needed to happen surrounding Lilith and the 12 angel did.

What it does not explain is, if the souls are not supposed to be purifiued until 4th impact, what's the deal with the FoI? Are thyey just "collateral damage" to the lilim that happened to be nearby?

[Konja7]

SPOILER: Show

Yes, I guess the blue armband is the definitive proof that A3I happened some time after, since at the moment of N3I there wasn’t even a hint of NERV members revolting and forming Wille.

---

In the final movie, Gendo reveals that each impact event is a subsequent step in the master plan of intrumentality, had a specific purpose (purify the seas, the land, the souls).

This is in contrast with the naive idea that each impact is a (failed) attempt at instrumentality all on its own. I think it’s safe to say that most of us tacitly had this conception to some extent until now.

The new "grand scheme" explains why all the impacts are so different in appearance: each is aimed to achieve different "milestones" towards instrumentality.

Also, if third impact was about "purifying the land", it explains why in the eyes of those in the know (e.g., Kaworu) N3I and A3I are basically "the same thing”:

What the lilim refer to as Near Third Impact...

It just took longer to get there, from the moment the (somehow necessary piece) Unit-01 is awakened, to the moment whatever it is that needed to happen surrounding Lilith and the 12 angel did.

What it does not explain is, if the souls are not supposed to be purifiued until 4th impact, what's the deal with the FoI? Are thyey just "collateral damage" to the lilim that happened to be nearby?

Additionally, in 3.0+1.0, it seems to be mentioned that a sacrifice is necessary to stop an Impact.

That's why Kaji sacrificed to stop the Third Impact and Kaworu sacrificed to stop the Fourth Impact. And I guess Misato's father sacrificed to stop the Second Impact.

It's pretty likely Gendo's plan need the Impacts to be stopped, because the "purification" is pretty destructive.


PS: It isn't directly said, but my theory is that a sacrifice is necessary to stop something like the Near Third Impact (after all, Mark06 stopped/prevented the Third Impact in 2.0, but there wasn't a sacrifice).

Please do not quote entire huge walls of text, simply edit the quotes.
-Zusuchan

[DantesInferno]

Additionally, in 3.0+1.0, it seems to be mentioned that a sacrifice is necessary to stop an Impact.

That's why Kaji sacrificed to stop the Third Impact and Kaworu sacrificed to stop the Fourth Impact. And I guess Misato's father sacrificed to stop the Second Impact.

It's pretty likely Gendo's plan need the Impacts to be stopped, because the "purification" is pretty destructive.


PS: It isn't directly said, but my theory is that a sacrifice is necessary to stop something like the Near Third Impact (after all, Mark06 stopped/prevented the Third Impact in 2.0, but there wasn't a sacrifice).

I heard that line too, but to me it does not make sense that there is some conscious, overseeing entity that “keeps score” and says “oh yeah, somebody sacrificed themselves so we’re good. Stop the impact already!”. in any case, a lot of people apparently died as a result of the impact; why wouldn’t any of them count as sacrifice?

I understood it more like “Some specific task needed to be done, that couldn’t be fully automated and required that somebody be physically present at a place from where they couldn’t possibly make it out alive”. Kind of like what Miasato does when carrying the new spear near the end of 3.0 + 1.0.

[Konja7]

I heard that line too, but to me it does not make sense that there is some conscious, overseeing entity that “keeps score” and says “oh yeah, somebody sacrificed themselves so we’re good. Stop the impact already!”. in any case, a lot of people apparently died as a result of the impact; why wouldn’t any of them count as sacrifice?

I assumed the sacrifice to stop the Impact need to be voluntary.

I don't think there is a conscious entity, but a sacrifice seems to be a requirement to stop an Impact.


In 3.0, there wasn't an "especific task" to stop the Fourth Impact. Kaworu just died (sacrificed) and Mari could release Shinji after that.

[Pluto]

CONFIRMED: It is Kaji's Helicopter in 3.333. There's a screenshot on page 50 of the theatrical pamphlet of the interview with Kaji's VA. It clearly shows the "Wille" painted over the NERV logo on the Helicopter.




PS My apologies for the lousy image quality it seems I'm not good at photography/taking pictures.

[Thesufferingpumpkin]

Really does prove that we really need to SEE this movie to understand it

[Jinroh]

There's still a whole movie equivalent of EOE missing to clearly understand the story. These pictures of Kaji leaving to stop third impact make me even more curious about what really happened. So much lore and character development missing!

I really, really hope they'll cover it in a book or something.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

It's just like the backstory for The Force Awakens: a Mystery Box. You guys didn't want to believe me but here we are.

I hope we get a rundown of it in a format similar to what Gurren Lagann did with its backstory, an artistic music video, but feeling more similar to Until You Come To Me.

[Derantor]

@Heaven Piercing Man: "It all means nothing, trust me!" is just a conversation stopper and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, ironic that just above you, somebody pointed out that we haven't seen the movie, yet you already proclaim that we can know for certain that it's all a JJ Abrams mystery box.

@Pluto: Since you've got the booklet available, could you provide us with more fotos from it, or a complete set? I bet there are interesting things in there we can use to bridge the gap until the movie becomes available.

[Pluto]

There's still a whole movie equivalent of EOE missing to clearly understand the story. These pictures of Kaji leaving to stop third impact make me even more curious about what really happened. So much lore and character development missing!

I really, really hope they'll cover it in a book or something.

This has always been my theory regarding Q and its aftermath (eg post 2.0). What would the world be like after EoE if things happened slightly differently in the NTE verse? This is somewhat confirmed with some of the shots from Q as well as Shin. I think 3rd Impact in NTE was Seele's impact. See my Shin Evangelion Secrects Revealed Thread

@Pluto: Since you've got the booklet available, could you provide us with more fotos from it, or a complete set? I bet there are interesting things in there we can use to bridge the gap until the movie becomes available.

I think I will be able to do this some time soon. I was under the impression it has already been uploaded but that does not seem to be the case. I'm going to add some more images from the book in my "Shin Eva's Secrets Revealed" thread. Maybe I should make a separate topic with pictures from the pamphlet? Do you have any recommendations wrt image hosting?

[Derantor]

The "Secrets" thread sounds fine to me, but you could also make a new one, whichever you prefer! I personally use imgur for image hosting, seems to be the easiest, but a google drive folder should work just as well, and even allows an archive download! And no, to my knowledge, there is no complete scan/photoset of the booklet right now.

[DantesInferno]

I assumed the sacrifice to stop the Impact need to be voluntary.

I don't think there is a conscious entity, but a sacrifice seems to be a requirement to stop an Impact.

Then how would that work, if some entity able to determine the voluntary-ness isn’t present?

And why would he have to jump into the helicopter? Why not just shoot himself then and there?

In 3.0, there wasn't an "especific task" to stop the Fourth Impact. Kaworu just died (sacrificed) and Mari could release Shinji after that.

N4I didn’t stop specifically because “Kaworu sacrificed himself”; it stopped because the Eva-13 got stabbed, lost its two pilots and became deactivated (not sure why Kaworu couldn’t just eject though!). In fact, the doors didn’t close until Mari removes Shinji from the unit (she even mentions this).

[Konja7]

Then how would that work, if some entity able to determine the voluntary-ness isn’t present?

And why would he have to jump into the helicopter? Why not just shoot himself then and there?

Well, I couldn't know how the voluntary-ness would be determined. However, it is pretty likely the "sacrifice" needs to be close to the origin of the Impact.

I admit the sacrifice rule is weird, but it seems to explain some events (like Kaworu's death).

Also, the sacrifice rule could explain why the Third Impact stopped by Kaji doesn't seem to have consenquences for the people (they only speak about how horrible the Near Third Impact released by Shinji was).

N4I didn’t stop specifically because “Kaworu sacrificed himself”; it stopped because the Eva-13 got stabbed, lost its two pilots and became deactivated (not sure why Kaworu couldn’t just eject though!). In fact, the doors didn’t close until Mari removes Shinji from the unit (she even mentions this).

I know Mari needs to remove Shinji to stop the Fourth Impact. I wasn't trying to imply the sacrifice was the only thing that stop the Fourth Impact.

However, when Kaworu died (and stabbed Eva13), something in the evironment changed and Eva13 started to fall. So, his death seems to be "Step 1" to stop Fourth Impact.


PS: I always assumed that they couldn't eject themselves from Eva13 when the Fourth Impact started (although I though Shinji could when Eva13 started to fall), but it could be that Kaworu really needs to die.

[Pluto]

The "Secrets" thread sounds fine to me, but you could also make a new one, whichever you prefer! I personally use imgur for image hosting, seems to be the easiest, but a google drive folder should work just as well, and even allows an archive download! And no, to my knowledge, there is no complete scan/photoset of the booklet right now.

I've uploaded the pamphlet to a google drive folder. If you're interested in the link just PM me

More on topic, I was able to get a better picture of the Wille logo on Kaji's helicopter.

[Arcadia's legacy]

Sorry to be that guy, but that's not a helicopter, it's a Tiltjet

[chee]

It's just like the backstory for The Force Awakens: a Mystery Box. You guys didn't want to believe me but here we are.

Question: have you seen the movie?

[Pluto]

Sorry to be that guy, but that's not a helicopter, it's a Tiltjet

It's okay, I know there's an even more technical proper term but I'm just going of the cuff.

Btw does anyone remember what the technical term for such a vehicle is called?

[DantesInferno]

Btw does anyone remember what the technical term for such a vehicle is called?

VTOL? (Vertical-Take-Off-and-Landing)

[Blockio]

Btw does anyone remember what the technical term for such a vehicle is called?

VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) aircraft

[DantesInferno]

If it’s true that Anno added the “Wille” logo to the VTOL seen at Dogma “after the fact”, for the 3.333 edition (retconning the one seen in 3.0 + 1.0), it could really disappointing:

My fear is that, at the time of 3.0 production, Anno had no working setting of what actually happens between 2.0 and 3.0, and was just “planting” a myriad of random mystery boxes (the skulls, Lilith’s state with the Mark 06 and the spears, the FoI, etc.) for fans like us to masturbate and hypothesize ad infinitum. Eventually, the hypotheses that made the most sense would be “filtered out” by elimination, and he could pick up from there and say “yes, that’s how it was all along! Ain’t I brilliant??”

If instead the Wille VTOL had been there all along, it confirms that he had a consistent vision. But it’s not like I know the guy or anything, so take this as a random rant...