The barrier

[andreh]

When we see EVA13 arriving at the barrier we can see a A.T. Field forming:


If Eva13 has no AT field as he could do this?

Crazy theory: I remember that the barrier was "impenetrable", maybe the AT field we see belongs to the barrier? (if she had not field anyone with military might could destroy it)

[TheFriskyIan]

Didn't Eva 13 have an ATF when Asuka was striking at it with her spear? I'm sure it can conjure up an ATF but doesn't need to when it begins it's crawl up Lilith's body. Like it was beginning to awaken and thus an ATF wasn't necessary.

[Charsi]

Personal fanwankery is it has an ATF when both pilots are in synch (remember the duet). Something about it being the ATF of two pilots makes it able to do what one pilot cannot, which is breach the containment over Lilith's corpse.

When Eva-13 is being attacked by Eva-02, the RS hoppers are providing defense in the form of their own AT fields (both defensively and offensively). Once they are destroyed, Shinji has to grab Asuka's weapons with his hands to hold back her attack. Until that point he hadn't actually lifted a hand against her. The RS hoppers were doing pretty much everything and Eva-13 manifested no AT field of it's own because Kaworu was lost in thought.

Mari shoots the Eva with anti-AT rounds later. They do nothing because there is nothing for them to do.

[riffraff11235]

Didn't Eva 13 have an ATF when Asuka was striking at it with her spear? I'm sure it can conjure up an ATF but doesn't need to when it begins it's crawl up Lilith's body. Like it was beginning to awaken and thus an ATF wasn't necessary.

The AT Field that blocked Asuka's attacks was being generated by those little drones flying around Unit-13. The Eva has no AT Field of its own, apparently.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

The drones are called RS Hoppers. Their function is to allow Eva-13 to be engaged in a battle with Eva-02, while having Mari's extra special bullets still not work.

[andreh]

Personal fanwankery is it has an ATF when both pilots are in synch (remember the duet).

Oh, I see.

However the barrier/lid remains strange to me (the way it crumbles for example). Surely it is not bakelite...

[Kodaemon]

I think Eva 13 does have an AT field, and it's what it uses to break through the barrier. Just before Kaworu and Shinji reach the barrier, we see a disk swap in the plug, I think what it does is program the AT field to perform differently, providing the capability to break through the barrier at the cost of sacrificing the regular functionality.

[Jornophelanthas]

What if Unit-13 never had an AT field, but instead generates an Anti-AT field?

Unit-13 not possessing an AT field explains the following:
- the need for RS Hopper drones;
- Mari's Anti-AT shells pass through it harmlessly.

However, Unit-13 generating an Anti-AT field explains a few more things:
- Mari's Anti-AT shells passing through it harmlessly (despite both the projectiles and Unit-13 being ostensibly physical objects);
- Disintegrating the barrier over Lilith's room (which shows a lot of properties of an AT Field);
- The need for more than one pilot (i.e. two AT fields that cancel each other out);
- Unit-13 being completely unaffected by being enveloped by the 12th Angel ("Iruel"?), and then effortlessly defeating and consuming it.
- Unit-08's arms being burned off by touching Unit-13;

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Perhaps Eva-13 is using an Ati-AT Field? (EDIT: Never mind, Jornophelanthas already dealtt with this in far more detail.)

However the barrier/lid remains strange to me (the way it crumbles for example). Surely it is not bakelite...

It seems to me that the barrier is actually very similar to Ramiel. The mirror color and polyhedral geometry are heavily suggestive of this angel. Moreover, when Shinji and Kaworu are breaking through the barrier, as they "match tempos", you can see what appears to be a 3D wireframe of Ramiel in their entry plug chamber.

The barrier and Ramiel  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C1054.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C1061.jpg[/wkimg]
(Click for a larger image)

[Shinoyami65]

I think that Eva-13 isn't the one producing the ATF in the OP pic; it looks more like the ATF in that shot is above or protecting the barrier, instead of breaking it up or segmenting it which is what Eva-13 somehow does. Possibly it could be the ATF of the 12th Angel, the Mark.06 or the remains of Lilith? Eva-13 may possess an Anti-ATF or variation of the ATF that is specialised for breaking down the barrier. Although my interpretation of Mari's line "No AT Field?" was that the Eva has no actual ATF at all, so I prefer the Anti-AT Field theory. Anti-AT Fields apparently not very difficult to produce in this continuity, as the Nemesis Series Code 4A are stated to be able to produce them and demonstrate the ability to a degree during their space battle with Asuka. So it would make sense that Eva-13 might possess a different version of the ability possessed by the Code 4A.

It seems to me that the barrier is actually very similar to Ramiel. The mirror color and polyhedral geometry are heavily suggestive of this angel. Moreover, when Shinji and Kaworu are breaking through the barrier, as they "match tempos", you can see what appears to be a 3D wireframe of Ramiel in their entry plug chamber.

The barrier and Ramiel  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=402]Q_Main_Shaft_Barrier_Wide.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=402]Q_Eva-13_Entry_Plugs_Barrier_Open.jpg[/wkimg]
(Click for a larger image)

Very interesting....Not sure how much Ramiel is actually involved with the barrier, though, since it died and while the barrier does seem to ba made of the same substance, it doesn't seem alive and doesn't deploy any death-lasers or suchlike. Additionally, Ramiel is dead and its body exploded into gloop, so I'm not sure how they managed to recreate its substance to form the barrier.

[Kodaemon]

Not a direct connection to Ramiel, perhaps, but it's similar in the "mechanics".

As for anti-AT fields, I count them as a type of AT field anyway.

[Jornophelanthas]

As for anti-AT fields, I count them as a type of AT field anyway.

You shouldn't. They're exact opposites.

The way AT fields appear to work in NGE and Rebuild of Evangelion is that they are near-impenetrable shells. If two of them collide (like in any regular Evangelion vs. Angel battle), the stronger of the two will penetrate and eliminate the other, causing the loser (typically the Angel) to lose all substance. Sort of like smashing two rocks together, and seeing which of the two will crack first.

The way Anti-AT fields appear to work in EoE and Rebuild is that they simply dissolve any weaker AT fields they come into contact with, causing the weaker party to lose its substance. This is why the Nemesis Mark.04a in the space battle (which is stated by Asuka to project an Anti-AT field) can so easily create a hole in Unit-02's AT field. Arguably, if an entitiy possessing an Anti-AT field dissolves the AT field of an opponent, the opponent's substance is also absorbed into the Anti-AT field. Which is what happened when Unit-01 absorbed the 10th Angel, when Unit-13 absorbed the 12th Angel, and when Unit-08 was wrestling down Unit-13 (partly). Sort of like two drops of water colliding to form a single drop of water.

As a physics analogy, if the AT field is the surface tension of a drop of liquid, then the Anti-AT field is a tiny black hole shaped like a drop of liquid.

I hope this is not too off-topic for this thread. My point remains that the barrier is somehow an AT field (perhaps created by Lilith from the remains of the masses of FoI's?), and that Unit-13 pierced it because it had an Anti-AT field.

[Kendrix]

Well, AATF technology definitely +does+ exist here, I'll give you that.


...EVA 13 was made to subvert a lot of in-universe physics; Such as weilding two spears, but it could be that the barrier had some special property that a classic ATF couldn't break through, and thus, EVA 13's field generating properties were altered to erode the barrier... and little else, having the RS-Hoppers to compensate for the "cripling overspecialization".


BTW, assuming the "wrong soul placement" is universal to all Rei clones (Kaworu does say, "Lillim Imitations" can't be used"), this may be why she was used to handle the spear in the classic series - because she could do it without triggering further effects such as impacts.

Just a silly fanwank for those who like the idea of similar mechanics.

[Mbryo]

I also thought 13th was projecting an ATF when it was breaking into Lilith's chamber, but judging from the subsequent scenes it looks like whatever Eva 13th is projecting is 'eating away' the barrier.

[TB3]

My point remains that the barrier is somehow an AT field (perhaps created by Lilith from the remains of the masses of FoI's?), and that Unit-13 pierced it because it had an Anti-AT field.

Are you certain that the barrier is something Lilith created - I thought there were loads of construction cranes left parked on its surface (implying that not only is the barrier man-made, but that enough people were around at that point post-N3I to build it).

The Anti-AT field is very plausible though. Please forgive me though for taking a moment to play devil's advocate:

Unit-13 is said to not have an AT field. However the RS-Hoppers is carries can generate one. What if Shinji and Kaworu were generating an AT-field through direct, simultaneous manipulation of the hoppers (akin to two people playing piano together).

It doesn't hold up as a theory in my mind really, but I thought it worth a mention.

[riffraff11235]

I just have to say, Evangelion is pretty much the only thing that's made me go, "Wow, that sound was really cool!". Just in Q, this happened with the sound of Lilith's barrier breaking, the sound of the Wunder activating its engines (taken straight from EoE), the sound of Eva-13 activating right before it destroyed the barrier, pretty much every sound that happened as Eva-13 was being awakened, etc. Hell, I'm still looking for a loop of the entry plug noise because I love it so much!

... /rant

[TheFriskyIan]

The various structures on the barrier look to be like construction cranes of sorts. Just thought I'd throw that out there if it hasn't been discussed already.

[Mbryo]

RS Hoppers- What? Hoppers? I wonder what the hell they were thinking when they named it....

[Jornophelanthas]

Are you certain that the barrier is something Lilith created - I thought there were loads of construction cranes left parked on its surface (implying that not only is the barrier man-made, but that enough people were around at that point post-N3I to build it).

I was merely speculating. Your guess is as good as mine concerning where the AT field in the barrier would be coming from. My main point, however, concerned that it is an AT field and that Unit-13 eroded it with an Anti-AT field, and it seems we are in agreement there.

---

I'm not sure this belongs in this thead, but:

RS Hoppers- What? Hoppers? I wonder what the hell they were thinking when they named it....

It is most likely yet another naval warfare reference (just like most characters' surnames), specifically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hopper_(DDG-70)