2.0 Translation Thread

[JoeD80]

スイカ畑で草むしりするカットの前に位置し、原画まで描かれたが欠番となつた。
Full sequence where Shinji runs into the terraced fields and the forests and underground lake within the GeoFront are shown. This missing sequence where he begins to cut the weeds in front of the watermelon patch was redrawn from original storyboards.(?)

原画 is key animation. 絵コンテ is storyboards. It's saying that they did the key animation for this scene but it was lost.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I asked in the translation thread if there was a way to have a further dissection of this line,

Original Japanese:

シンジ　世界がどうなったっていい。僕がどうなったっていい。だけど、綾波だけは…綾波だけは助け出してみせる！

Romajji

Shinji: Sekai ga dou natta ii. Boku ga dou natta ii. Dakedo, Ayanami dake wa... Ayanami dake wa tasukedasu miseru!

Loose and direct translation:

Shinji: World whatever [happens] is fine. Myself whatever [happens] is fine. Ayanami at least.... Ayanami at least will show to save her!

"Proper" translation:

Shinji: Whatever will happen to the world is alright.* Whatever will happen to me is alright. But at least Ayanami... At least I'll save Ayanami!

*Note: "I don't care what happens to ____" IS another proper way of translating this.

I hope that helps.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[ZapX]

*Note: "I don't care what happens to ____" IS another proper a much better way of translating this.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Zap: I know. I actually translated the line that way previously ("I don't care what happens to____"), myself. I intentionally was going for a literal translation feel since Seele was confused on an aspect of Shinji's line.

Seele: Glad it helped.

[Sailor Star Dust]

There's a Ritsuko line that's been bugging me because I'm not sure what it means. I don't have Japanese on hand so I can't check, maybe somebody else can enlighten me:

This is the birth of a new lifeform that's grown beyond this world's Logos. And the price... is the death of all old lifeforms.

A new lifeform has been born that transcends all reason, at the cost of destroying the life that came before.

A new lifeform has been born that transcends all reason, at the cost of destroying the life that came before.

What is "logos" supposed to mean, exactly? And why is it capitalized? Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but it doesn't make much sense to me...

[Mr. Tines]

What is "logos" supposed to mean, exactly? And why is it capitalized? Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but it doesn't make much sense to me...

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

en archē ēn o Logos kai o Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theon ēn o Logos.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Here the Logos is an eternal divine Person, through whom in the beginning everything was made.

[subAtomic]

Logos, from the Greek λόγος ("word, plan, reason"), is the ordering principle that governs all things. It is vaguely similar to the concept of dharma in Hinduism. Metaphysically, Logos is both the law and the source of that law.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the explanation(s)!

[subAtomic]

When Gendo and Fuyutsuki are orbiting the Moon, looking down at Mark.06, Gendo says (per the wiki translation), "Be that as it may, there is nothing left for us but to continue on our own path. Even if we find ourselves opposing a false god." Squall.Lionheart translates the second sentence as "Even if it means opposing God's Logos." There are very different meanings to the two translations. Can someone clear this up? Thanks!


EDIT: I'm also curious if the little Rei chibi popping out of Zeruel's core say anything else after "I can be replaced". Shinji shrieks, "There's no other Ayanami but you!" and then it cuts to a shot of the adorable little -tachi again and they say something, almost like "What?"

EDIT 2: Just before Asuka kicks several perfectly-aimed bolts through Clockiel, she screams something that sounds like "TOH-ROO-YAAAAAA!!" Any idea what it means? The best I can figure out with the Japanese transcript, Google Translate, and Wiktionary is toru a which seems to mean "to pass through" and an exclamation akin to "Ah!" respectively. Am I on the right track?

[lolzly]

When Gendo and Fuyutsuki are orbiting the Moon, looking down at Mark.06, Gendo says (per the wiki translation), "Be that as it may, there is nothing left for us but to continue on our own path. Even if we find ourselves opposing a false god." Squall.Lionheart translates the second sentence as "Even if it means opposing God's Logos." There are very different meanings to the two translations. Can someone clear this up? Thanks!

The one taken from the wiki isn't right. 神の理 (Kami no kotowari) could be translated as God's Logos. God's truth, God's design, God's will and so on is about right. Even if we are forced to go against God's X, essentially.

EDIT: I'm also curious if the little Rei chibi popping out of Zeruel's core say anything else after "I can be replaced". Shinji shrieks, "There's no other Ayanami but you!" and then it cuts to a shot of the adorable little -tachi again and they say something, almost like "What?"

It ought to just be a surprised gasp, which I guess is like saying 'what'.

EDIT 2: Just before Asuka kicks several perfectly-aimed bolts through Clockiel, she screams something that sounds like "TOH-ROO-YAAAAAA!!" Any idea what it means? The best I can figure out with the Japanese transcript, Google Translate, and Wiktionary is toru a which seems to mean "to pass through" and an exclamation akin to "Ah!" respectively. Am I on the right track?

I don't know if it's really translatable in specific terms. I believe she screams the same thing later on. It should just be her personal epic war-cry.

[subAtomic]

The one taken from the wiki isn't right. 神の理 (Kami no kotowari) could be translated as God's Logos. God's truth, God's design, God's will and so on is about right. Even if we are forced to go against God's X, essentially.

Thanks so much for your help, lolzly. :) That's what I was able to determine after a lot of translation and comparisons.

I guess my next question is whether "kami" should really be rendered as "God", at least in America where that instantly conjures up images of the Abrahamic God. It seems that "kami" can be singular or plural, used to mean everything from "God" to "gods" to the more general "spirit" or "divine powers". Although these anime deal heavily in Judei-Christian symbology, is Gendo specifically talking about opposing the triune God of Christianity, or is the emphasis more on divine laws (like those found in the aforementioned Dead Sea Scrolls Apocrypha) being rejected? In the meantime, I've rendered it in my subtitle file as "Even if we must oppose the cosmic order itself."

[lolzly]

Thanks so much for your help, lolzly. :) That's what I was able to determine after a lot of translation and comparisons.

I guess my next question is whether "kami" should really be rendered as "God", at least in America where that instantly conjures up images of the Abrahamic God. It seems that "kami" can be singular or plural, used to mean everything from "God" to "gods" to the more general "spirit" or "divine powers". Although these anime deal heavily in Judei-Christian symbology, is Gendo specifically talking about opposing the triune God of Christianity, or is the emphasis more on divine laws (like those found in the aforementioned Dead Sea Scrolls Apocrypha) being rejected? In the meantime, I've rendered it in my subtitle file as "Even if we must oppose the cosmic order itself."

I believe the term God's Logos was originally lifted from the "official" festival subtitles, which are sorta . But yes, I doubt they're referring to the God of Abraham as that would be over the Japanese audience's heads. They could be referring to Lilith, Adam, or whatever divine being wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls in respect to "God's law", but just saying kami doesn't specify 'God(s)' at all. IMO it's really a cryptic way of saying 'to go against pre-ordained fate,' without reference to who or what made it so. The whole God thing might just confuse English-speakers.

[Shwiggie]

Have any of you looked at an original language reference to these quotations? I'd be interested to hear whether the actual word was used there, and, if so, if it is capitalized. Otherwise, what follows could be entirely inconsequential.

Logos is a specific term referring to organized concepts and thoughts and/or the active exposition thereof. It's origin is in Greek philosophy, where it signifies the presence of reason, intelligence, and even wisdom and the systematic expression if the same. Biblically speaking, one of the titles of Christ is "the Word", which is derived from the first chapter of John's Gospel. The concept of logos was incorporated into the structure of Christology due to the usage there.

According to the verse, Christ Himself is the manifestation of the divine thought that created the world, as the Word (Logos) was in the beginning with God and in fact was God, and that all things were made by him and that life proceeded from Him. This jibes with the creation account, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," with the following verses stating how it was done by the expression of the Divine creative plan, i.e., "let there be light". This is followed upon in Colossians 1:15-17 where Christ is said to have been the Agent through Whom all creation was brought about (Col. 1:17b - "...by him [Christ] all things consist." [emphasis added]). Capitalizing the Greek word would, in my mind, points further toward the personification found in John 1:1 as "the Word".

I would imagine that this mandates the translator to skew toward the Judeo-Christian God as the translation for kami in Gendo's quotation. However, without going way too far on the theological limb, I'd suppose that the direct reference to Logos is pointing more toward the God's natural or physical law, rather than the Christ.

There are a few reasons why this makes better sense. First, it preserves the more ambiguous use of the term kami. Second, it fits better in the context of both quotations...the laws ordering both nature and life are being defied and redefined to the loss of the former and in defiance of their Author. Third, this places what's being done more in-line with the funky physics at work where Angels and Evangelions are concerned...seas of Dirac and perpetual motion engines simply don't make empirical or theoretical sense. And, finally, it's less offensive...I personally abhor the trivialization of Jesus, while others don't want Him thrown in their face either from a sense of inappropriateness, ambivalence, or antagonism.

[subAtomic]

Have any of you looked at an original language reference to these quotations? I'd be interested to hear whether the actual word was used there, and, if so, if it is capitalized. Otherwise, what follows could be entirely inconsequential.

See here: http://www.oldict.com/%E7%90%86/268/
and here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%90%86

for an explanation of the word (romanized as ri).

[Sailor Star Dust]

Asuka does that "war cry" in NGE and EoE, too.

[subAtomic]

Is it an actual Japanese phrase or just a meaningless exclamation used to express excitement?

[ZapX]

Typical super robot protagonist expression. "TORYAAA" "DOORYAA" "UNDORYAA!" etc. Just the hotblood or GAR coming through.

Also, FWIW, I tend to like to translate "kami no" as "divine" so as to preserve the ambiguity of "kami". It can most certainly refer to a god, a spirit, God, or what have you, but divine gives the same sense while keeping it ambiguous. As to "kami no kotowari (神の理)" It's something akin to "divine will" in this instance, as lolzy pointed out. The main bullet point to take from it is "we'll go against divine will if we have to".

[subAtomic]

Such insightful and helpful responses in this thread! Thanks!

I'm also curious about squall's choice of "coattails" as a nickname Asuka gives to Shinji. Is this accurate? It works in the context it's used, but is the full meaning carried through in translation?

[ZapX]

She calls him "nanahikari (七光り)" which comes from "oya no nanahikari (親の七光り) an expression used for someone who gets ahead based on a parent's stature or hard work. (Riding a parent's) coattails is a typical and good translation of it.